Violence Returns To Paris Suburbs

Bus Burned, Rescue Services Attacked As Anniversary Of Rioting Approaches

(CBS/AP)  A band of youths, some wearing masks, forced passengers out of a bus in a southern Paris suburb in broad daylight, set it afire then stoned firefighters who came to the rescue, a police official said.

Police cordoned off the neighborhood in Grigny, in the Essonne region, following the bus attack Sunday, which came five days before France marks the one-year anniversary of the start of three weeks of fiery riots by poor suburban youths.

District police chief Jean-Francois Papineau called Sunday's bus attack “deliberate.” He said a vehicle was set afire at about 2 p.m. and used as a road block that forced the bus to stop. Two youths then entered the back of the bus to clear out passengers before dousing it with gasoline and setting it ablaze.

The blaze, which left the bus a tangled carcass of metal, spread to four parked cars, Papineau told LCI television.

When firefighters arrived, the youths, some masked, began stoning them, he said. No one was injured. Two people were arrested, one of them a 13-year-old, according to LCI.

The local prefecture said that nearly 30 youths were involved in the incident. LCI reported that about 50 youths, some carrying iron bars, were involved.

Meanwhile, France's minister for social cohesion, Jean-Louis Borloo, called on citizens to act responsibly because “tensions are raw just as we're in the process of resolving the difficulties.”

The daylight bus-burning evoked memories of the riots. It followed nearly a half-dozen incidents in recent weeks in which suburban youths have attacked police officers, in some cases in planned ambushes. Such clashes have raised tensions ahead of Friday's anniversary of the start of the riots.

Police secured the Grande Borne neighborhood of Grigny, the local government said, adding that order was quickly restored.

The riots last year laid bare rampant discrimination in the housing projects surrounding France's big cities where numerous French of immigrant origin live, separated from mainstream life.

On Saturday, five people were placed under investigation for attempted murder in relation to an Oct. 13 ambush in the town of Epinay-sur-Seine, north of Paris, in which police were lured to a housing project then attacked by about 30 youths. One officer hit by a rock required 30 stitches to the face.

The government has since provided funds and enacted numerous measures in a bid to reverse the situation. However, the problem remains entrenched, and there are no concrete signs that daily violence has diminished.

CBS News' Bob Albertson reports that while French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has said that there are not now any advance signs of impending riots, the French police's domestic intelligence unit, les Renseignements Generaux, put out an alarmist memo earlier this month — extracts were published in today's edition of the conservative newspaper "Le Figaro" — noting that the conditions which led to last year's riots were still very much present throughout much of the country. That same report pointed fingers at journalists who are investigating the situation in these communities — something the police claim is heightening tension: it's the usual complaint about teens trashing and bashing for the evening news cameras.

Officials and analysts have said over the last couple of days that little, if anything has been done in the communities affected by last fall's rioting. And, in an eerie replay of the run-up to the 1968 riots here when then President De Gaulle was traveling in Rumania and his prime minister was in Afghanistan, French President Jacques Chirac travels to China October 25-27, Albertson added.

Borloo, the social cohesion minister, said it could take three or four years to see concrete results from the efforts his government has put in place.

Speaking on Europe-1 radio, he called on “parents, associations, mayors, all (those involved)” in the suburbs to “act responsibly” to avoid a new explosion.

“Authority is clearly needed but we also need dialogue and respect, much more than we had in those neighborhoods,” he said.

[mjv2944]

So much for the Frenchies handling them with kid gloves, now they have created a real monster thats going to consume them. Radicals only know violence and must be dealt with with violently. The Europeans have painted themselves into a real nasty corner, trying to deal with Islamic extremists. Remember all the bullsh*t Hitler spread and what the results of that was.

[iloveamerica]

No mention that this is muslim violence? WOW WHY WOULD CBS REFUSE TO SAY THAT THIS IS JIHAD???

THE REAL STORY

"French police face 'permanent intifada'"

""Many youths, many arsonists, many vandals behind the violence do it to cries of 'Allah Akbar' (God is Great) when our police cars are stoned," he said in an interview.

"http://www.jihadwatch.org/"

[iloveamerica]

More from the WHOLE ARTICLE:

"Many youths, many arsonists, many vandals behind the violence do it to cries of 'Allah Akbar' (God is Great) when our police cars are stoned," he said in an interview.

Larger, more mainstream police unions sharply disagree that the suburban unrest has any religious basis. However, they do say that some youth gangs no longer seem content to throw stones or torch cars and instead appear determined to hurt police officers %u2014 or worse.

"First, it was a rock here or there. Then it was rocks by the dozen. Now, they're leading operations of an almost military sort to trap us," said Loic Lecouplier, a police union official in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris. "These are acts of war."

Sadio Sylla, an unemployed mother of three, watched the Oct. 13 ambush of the police patrol in Epinay-sur-Seine from her second-floor window. She, other witnesses and police union officials said up to 50 masked youths surged out from behind trees.

One of the three officers needed 30 stitches to his face after being struck by a rock.

Distrust and tension thrive. Rumors have flown around some housing projects that police are hoping to use the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which ends this week, to round up known troublemakers, on the basis that fasting all day will have made the youths weaker and easier to catch.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

[mjv2944]

I say send them back from where they came. If they do not want to adapt to a countries language and customs, LEAVE, they are prone to violence and seem to thrive on it. Its time for a real live "smack down" in Europe. Trying to appease these people apparently did not work. We will have similar problems here if we do not secure our borders and remove illegals.

[cathaleen]

Just throw them out of the country. If they don't like it, leave. Or send them to Elba.

[monceau1]

The French police are awesome.

[boston1954]

When they burn down the entire city, are they going to expect the US to help re-build?

[cbgb31]

The French have given the immigrants so much and this is how they show their gratitude. Listen and learn America.

[catlmi1]

I highly reccomend Pat Buchannan's book State of Emergency. If the leadership of America doesn't wake up, and soon, this country, as we know it, will cease to exist. His book explains the reasons for this in detail. Political correctness, to the point of ignoring the opinions of the majority of people in America today, will create a political backlash for conservatives that may never be overturned.

[cbgb31]

cpp, the southern border fence has got to be built. We'll see if the Democrats follow through when they take over.

[gladetryst]

I agree with cpp1mdc, except left wing people have more "political correctness" than conservatives. So both parties are running themselves into oblivion.

[cbgb31]

It's the Oprahization of America.

[monceau1]

Boston1954 - you dumb@***. Knock of your obtuse anti-French sentiment. We wouldn't be a country without the billions of dollars and direct military support that they provided us at the time of our revolution. France and the U.S. have a long history of helping each other, and I'm not going to let Bush and all Americans who have forgotten history ruin that.

[tibu987]

Immigration is a problem for every country that accepts foreigners. No exceptions. It might be wise to decrease the amount of incoming people.
Perhaps a mathematical formula, say 1 immigrant per 100 native countrymen, or whatever number.
Smaller because it would then be able to immerse, to engage, that person more easily into the culture, the language, the workplace, etc., etc.
Obviously, by bringing in large numbers of immigrants and expecting them, from day one, to become integrated citizens does not work.
Just lessen the number.

[grimlox]

Jihad? Not Exactly. The conditions that these youths - many immigrants or children of immigrants live in a ghetto impoverished state, liitle employemnt and chance for social mobility. Yes many are muslim. This would make sense given France's recent colonial exploits in Muslim countires in Africa notably Algeria and the former "French West Africa". Their plight is primarily economic but the fact that it could be percieved amongst some that the Western world is or has been locked in imperialist/colonialist conflict with their countrymen ain't helpin the issue either.

As for all the American swagger and bluster, here in Crown Heights, Broooklyn and out in LA in the Nineties they was sayin' "F the Police". And in LA they sayin F the Gringos right now. you cats need to check yo selves. All this love it or leave it ***... You know their parents wouldn't be here (France or US) if we weren't there (choose one).

[cbgb31]

Oh,poor poor immigrants. They should be made rich than none of this would happen. Shame on France.

[mjv2944]

monceau1

True, the French did help us out 200+years ago and we have been bailing them out ever since. WWI, WWII and Viet Nam, plus financial aid and more after WWII, we have more than repaid them and all they do is rub sh*t in our face. Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree. They are in real trouble now and I can't wait to see how they get out of it.

[monceau1]

mjv2944 - you are also a dumba$$

bailing them out since the 18th century? Yeah, I don't think so. do you have any idea how many billions of today's dollars (we're talking equivalencies here) they spent on our revolution? No, you don't have any idea, because American financial support since then doesn't even make the half of it. We entered into WWI and WWII (lately, I might add) in support of our own interests, and perhaps responding partially to a call by our European brothers. Again, you ignorant ahistorical fool, you mention Vietnam? All you can say about Vietnam is that the French f-ed up, and then we were stupid enough to follow them and do the same thing again. Basically, they made a mistake (with one of their own colonies I remind you) and then we followed them and made the same one again. So who's more foolish, the fool or the fool that follows? Go to your nearest library and purchase as many history books as your pension can afford - don't worry about the cost, you need it.

[monceau1]

One more thing - you say that France is in deep *** now? What the he-ll do you know about it? I am an American living in France, and I lived through the riots last year - and let me tell you something; If it weren't for the huge publicity on TF1 and France2 (French media don't sweep social problems under the rug like the American media do), most people wouldn't have known anything was going on. And in terms of dealing with the delinquents, the American S.W.A.T. teams could take lessons from the French heavy police forces (The Gendarmrie and the CRS). The French both efficiently handle the situation, and refrain from killing too many innocent bystanders (as the American police are known to do, such as when they see Black Man go for his wallet).

The French rub *** in our faces ? Give me one example, just one. Go ahead. I'm waiting - and as a person who has lived in both countries, and has been educated in both countries, and has family and friends in both countries, I will be very interested to hear the answer. (preferably in French, seeing as you are an expert)

[grimlox]

Tell em' Monceau1.

It seems painfully obvious that many of the 'negative' posters out here have never been outside the US, but seem to be experts on telling us about "those people".

Take hint, learn a new language, learn to speak another two - the majority of the world already does, it just might give you a new insight into things.

Monceau1 is on point one other thing - do yourself a favor and get some periodicals from outside this place and see what they say. It amazes me how I here consistently that the American media is "too liberal". Really? I can't find out anything about the outide world and these websites - woefully poor, to say nothing of any other serious issues.

[namandaman]

Monceau1,
If the French police are handling things so effectively, how come there are still car burnings going on seemingly daily since last years riots?

You've been quite critical towards anti-France comments, but I haven't heard any solutions on this problem from you.

[agnim]

The french are suffering colonialist pains.

The french went to people's space to destroy, colonizse and scatter them.

Now the scattered ones have reached France to practice destructive french lessons learned well.
Karma is a v!tch. LOL

[monceau1]

You want me to propose a solution? I don't know why I would do that, seeing as I am not an expert in police tactics nor in social reform (I like to talk aboout what I know). Personally, I don't see a need for that sort of change in France. I am politically moderate, and I find these immigrant's complaints to be very tedious. Like many in the United States, people move to France, acting like they have some god-given right to live there. In my opinion, they should be gracious to be guests in a place where French people have lived for well over a thousand years, and should aspire one day too have the honour of being a citizen - not ******** and complaining at every trouble they have. They think French people are racist? Personally, I have never seen more racism than when I was in North Africa, Sub-saharan Africa, or the Caribbean (not the touristic Caribbean). Combared to what happens daily in those places, all the immigrants' complaints against the U.S. and France are next to nothing. Sometimes I feel we live in a very sad world, but I try at least to put it into context.

[monceau1]

I think that the car burnings are over publicised - especially when considering the incredible number of gun deaths in the U.S. every day that we never hear about. I would rather have my car burned than be shot in a dark corner on my way home from work, just so someone can steal 50$ from my wallet. According to the statistics that I have been able to find, several times more people are murdered by guns each day in the U.S. than cars burned in France (adjusted for population, too). Luckily, when cars are burned people rarely die. But remember what I said about how the French media actually about social issues ? That alone is progress in my eyes.

[janeymcgreev]

Spray the garbage with machine gun fire - and send the survivors scurrying back to their blessed fellow roach feces.

Of course the Vichyite Chirac wouldn't dare shoot down his friends and those who grease his wallet, which is why France is once again flushed down the toilet, as it was in 1954, in 1940, in 1916, and in 1870. They will never learn - until American boys have to die once again for their ungrateful *****. Hopefully we'll wise up the next time, unless Sarkozy does prove to be better and brighter than the slime and perverted scum that has led France since 1940 - as well as off and on previous centuries.

[janeymcgreev]

I've been to the garbage dump called France. I've seen the hate America looks in the faces, the rudeness of speaking French only (although they might have a point here - we go English only and tell the ILLEGAL *** to shove on out. Of course don't tell Teddy or John McLame this).
I also know how my relatives died so they could elect merde like DeGaulle, D'Estaing, Mitterrand, and Chirac.

Not one pro-American there, not one. Just those who love the Arabs and hate the Christians and Jews. Especially the Jews.

Nothing could be finer than a mushroom cloud over the Arc De Triomphe in the morning...especially if one million Arabs are underneath it.

[monceau1]

JaneyMcGreev -

All I can say is "wow." It's been a long tims since I heard such unmitigated bullsh1t - and luckily, most of the world disagrees with you. "That dump called France"? LoL That dump is the number once tourist destination in the world, yes, even higher than the U.S.. I don't have much to say to you. You obviously don't know what the he1l you are talking about, your gross misunderstandings are too vast and banal for me to even try to correct. I'm filing you under "Hopeless" - I hope you enjoy living out the rest of your sorry life in the U.S., cursing random French-Canadians and throwing darts at pictures of the country that could possibly be the best friend the U.S. ever had. If only we had listened to them a few years ago, when Chirac explained to us what a mistake it would be to invade Iraq. Turns out he was 100% right, doesn't it?

[monceau1]

P.S. - Americans have no room to talk about the French speaking French-only. Actually, most French people do speak a 2nd language, if only you were polite enough to ask them - instead of just throwing your obnoxious question out into their face.

[mjv2944]

Monceau1

How many of todays dollars did we spend on WWI and WWII and rebuilding afterwards. Most unappreciative people in the world. Do you live in France? If you don't, maybe you should. I don't think we'd miss you.

[mjv2944]

Monceau1

With current immigration policies and low birth rates among western European nation, they'll be Ialamic nations in 10 to 15 years, if they don't change their policies.

[lily_ayanami]

I think what's going on in France is a warning sign to the U.S., regarding our own immigrant populations. Granted that France is probably more resistant to immigrant populations (France: hundreds of years of history and cultural identity. U.S.: nation of immigrants and ever-changing cultural identity), this could easily happen in the U.S. if we're not careful about our own immigrants. Actually, these riots make me think about the race riots in the '60s.

[monceau1]

mjv2944 -

France is actually the most fecund nation in Western Europe - their population is expected to augment by 25% within the next 50 years, making them the largest nation in Europe. Immigration has been greatly reduced in the last few years, with much more care being taken to award residency to those who show high potential. Yes, I do live in France at the moment, and I am American. Please educate yourself before making any more loosely strung together posts on this forum - we would all appreciate it.

[politikz]

I had the opportunity to live in France six years ago, and the way minorities were treated there was awful. The citizens of Arabic descent, especially Morroccans, got the worst of it. You can't keep people down and oppressed and not expect something like this to occur. Actually, this does remind me of the riots that took place during the sixties. I think alot of the wealthy nations need criticizing third world countries so much about human rights and take a good, long look at themselves!!

[cathaleen]

It's too bad Europeans get an attitude toward the US. If it wasn't for us they would all be doing the goose step and saying Heil! They should be thankful for the all the money we spent rebuilding
Europe.

[monceau1]

If it weren't for France, the U.S. would be speaking...well, they would be speaking English ! (I'm alluding to the American Revolution which everyone seems to have forgotten - you know, the war that made the U.S. a country in the first place)

[namandaman]

Thanks for the reply, monceau1. I am not a policy expert either, but maybe the French should seriously consider the threat of deportation for the worst of the troublemakers, plus removal of citizenship. Maybe these scalawags need to experience life in their mother countries for a while to appreciate life in Europe.

[monceau1]

namandaman -

Yes, it deportation has been considered for those caught by the police, but of course only for those who were in France illegally. Several thousand other "sans-papiers" (illegal residents) are scheduled for deportation very soon, but many of them have applied to stay in France as citizend, and their dossiers are being reviewed by the government.

The government tries to be as fair as possible, despite any race bias that may exist among the French people. I think many Americans will be suprised to know that in France it is illegal to collect information regarding races. That is to say, the government will never ask your race on a tax form, an a census, or any other sort of poll. This is part of an effort to make the government "color-blind," meaning that they see only people and not races.

[bellal-2009]

Monceau1, we don't learn much about the Revolutionary War here in America anymore. You probably learned more about it in school in France than American kids. It's sad.

[monceau1]

bellaL -

It is sad, isn't it ? In my American education, I hardly learned anything about it at all until my 2nd year of college. Here in France, it seems that everyone with a high school diploma (a French one, I mean) has a decent global knowledge of North American history ever since colonialisation began.

Maybe you remember that Bill Gates recently pointed out on Oprah (as little Oprah as I watch) that American high schools are in a crises and don't hold their own against Canadian, European and some Asiatic public schools. It's incredible how the U.S. is home to some of the best universities, and at the same time one of the worst public school systems in the 1st world.