freeSpeech: Katrina vanden Heuvel

The Nation Publisher Speaks Out About the Cost Of War In Iraq

(CBS)  What has been the cost of our undeclared and unprovoked war in Iraq?

Let us begin with life itself – more than 2,700 of our men and women killed, over 20,000 wounded. This is a cost that has caused grief for families that nothing can heal.

Nor should we forget, some 100,000 dead and wounded Iraqis. And the financial cost – over $400 billion has now been spent for this war. That fiscal recklessness has already burdened generations of Americans to come.

The administration nonetheless justifies the war and its costs in the name of national security. But the reality is that this war has so weakened and demoralized the U.S. military that even retired military leaders have risen in unprecedented revolt.

Moreover, 16 of our own intelligence services now tell us that the war has only increased the terrorist threat.

And then there is the incalculable cost to America's reputation. We have lost the respect of allies who once looked to us as a beacon of hope — not fear.

Nor should we ignore the grave costs to our democracy at home. We have permitted an executive branch to seize unprecedented power, subverting our constitutional system of checks and balances, and even sanction torture. And from its inception, truth and accountability has been this war’s victims.

Despite all these costs, we are told that we must stay the course. By any rational and humane reckoning, it is time to end this misadventure.

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Katrina vanden Heuvel has been The Nation's editor since 1995 and publisher since 2005.

She is the co-editor of "Taking Back America--And Taking Down The Radical Right" (NationBooks, 2004) and, most recently, editor of "The Dictionary of Republicanisms," (NationBooks, 2005.

She is also co-editor (with Stephen F. Cohen) of "Voices of Glasnost: Interviews with Gorbachev's Reformers" (Norton, 1989) and editor of "The Nation: 1865-1990," and the collection "A Just Response: The Nation on Terrorism, Democracy and September 11, 2001." Vanden Heuvel was also co-editor of Vyi i Myi, a Russian-language feminist newsletter.

[trailboss49]

As a veteran I am concerned about all people wearing the uniform of the USA. That over 2,700 brave heroes have been killed is a tragedy over 2,700 times. However, the defense of this nation in Iraq and/or Afghanistan has yet to equal the number of civilians killed on 9/11.

Katrina vanden Heuvel misspeaks and down right lies in much of her confusing talk. She cites only half of what the intelligence agencies say about terrorism in Iraq. They also said if we stay the course and defeat them there it is less likely we will have to face them again in other places.

The fact is if you are fortunate enough to speak to military personnel returning from Iran and Afghanistan they are proud to have served and are not demoralized or running down the military chiefs.

Neither was the USA constitution ignored in sending our military to Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Congress was consulted and votes went for sending the troops over.

Katrina vanden Heuvel lives in an alternate world where the reality of what faces us is irrelevant.

[mwe3wm]

Preaching to the choir, but good sermon.

[xfredmenzies]

trailboss49 your comment is one giant cliche.

[maxig55]

katrina,
You are entitled to your opinion. However it is people such as you who would have the greatest nation in the world run at the first sign that things are more difficult than we first thought. We must learn that situations don't always improve over night or necessarily in a year or two. I do admit it is a tragedy to see so many lose their lives but we lost over 50,000 in Vietnam only to see America disgraced and our soldiers mistreated at every turn. We cannot ever allow that to happen again. If we were to retreat now all the lives of those courageous soldiers would be in vain. Maybe you should get out and spend some time with the real soldiers the ones who experience it,live it, and are proud to do their job. I'm not speaking of generals but the real ones who put their lives on the line everyday. The real Heroes!!! My hats off to all of them. You need to support them always and if you can't at least do that, then just SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!

[bellal-2009]

What Ms. vanden Heuvel neglects to explain is how she proposes we "end this misadventure". We owe it to the Iraqi people to at least leave Iraq in better shape than it is now. I'm anti-war as well as the next person but c'mon what are we going to do just pack up and leave.

[bellal-2009]

What always gets me about this argument is they make it sound as if the US soldiers are responsible for the killing of 100,000 Iraqi's. Like we're the bad guys.

[jabusario]

The views of vanden Heuvel is not especially revolutionary, and reflects what most resonable people should have known, given the information available, for at least the past three years. As to the administration's bumper sticker type sloganeering like "cut-and-run" that they toss out to the shrinking clan of America's miseducated, which constitutes the hard core Bush voter base, the new menace posed by North Korea makes it pretty plain that Bush was wrong to tie the troops down fighting a weak power like Iraq when it was known at the time that North Korea and Iran were real threats. Even now, we would do better to "cut and run" so as to free up the military to adress these threats, especially now that Kim Jung Il has exposed himself as way more crazy than foxy. Instead, The Bush white house remains committed to it's Keystone Cops approach to warfare, which was about as good as you could expect of a president that failed in every business he tried prior to being elected, and since, has demonstrated that everything he touches turns to bleep. We now are all reaping the consequences that only he and his feeble-minded voter base deserves. We don't have time for these people to come out of their coma.

[kpdkpd1]

ALL WRONG

Tommorrow, Sean Hannity on free speech

ALL RIGHT

[snowbrd7]

If Iran is the real threat we're in a good place to deal with them and as far as N.Korea, China and Japan need to figure that out.

[kiboki-2009]

maxiG55,

So you think this is "...the first sign that things are more difficult than we first thought."
EXACTLY HOW BAD DOES IT HAVE TO GET before you will conclude that it is so much worse that we first thought that it is time to do something different???

[mh4cbs1]

bellaL:

No, it is not our soldiers who are the bad guys. They are putting their lives on the line in service to their county.

Tragically, our troops are victims of the Bush gang (chicken hawks themselves), who have hijacked the GOP. It is FACT that this gang LIED us into a needless War OF Terror in Iraq. 9-11 was exploited by this insidious gang, for the pretext of an Invasion that they had been drooling over since the day they took office.

Don't believe it? Read Downing Street Memos, Tyler Drumheller (was head of CIA operations in Europe), Richard Clark, Scott Ritter (ex-Marine, Republican, UN inspector) and countless others who have come public. Even an email from Jack Abramoff surfaced this week where he talked about the 'upcoming War in Iraq' -- one year before the Invasion.

The Sheeple of America are waking up! We need to neutralize the neo-fascists in November. Honor the troops, defeat their chickhawk War-Mongers who use them as cannon fodder for their wars for power and profit.

[bellal-2009]

mh4cbs1,yea, got it, knew it, fought against it (unlike so many Democrats who gave the administration a green light for fear of losing their congressional seats). Not a reason for lessening our resolve to see this through.

[mh4cbs1]

bellL, maxiG55:

Also, the people in Iraq don't want us there (governement survey showed this last month). Our presence fuels the insurgency and gives terrorist their recruiting power!

In Vietnam, we were told by Nixon in '68 that we needed to have "Peace with Honor". After several more years of carpet bombing, death and destruction, with another 30,000 or so US soldiers dead, with mass murderer Pol Pot rising up from our invasion of Camobodia, we finally did end up leaving. And there was finally peace.

When will you figure out that supporting the troops means fighting against the policies of their commander in chief when he uses them as cannon fodder for their wars of folly and empire??

Do you see kids of the wealthy and of the politicians serving in Iraq? NO! It is the poor and middle-class kids who fight and die, whose families suffer the losses. Have the wealthy sacrified for this War? NO! they have gotten massive tax cuts and their stocks are doing great (War can be profitable when you don't have to fight it).

WAKE UP! They are making you Chumps for their fear-mongering, war-mongering empire-building.

[kiboki-2009]

mh4cbs1, Well said!

[frankly6]

To Mrs. Katrina Liberal-hueval this war may have cost a lot of money but what's more important is that it's made a lot of money for companies that support our GOP machine. An awful lot of that money comes back to us in the form of campaign contributions bribes that we depend upon. We take it from working American's and we give to our corporate supporters then they give it back to us. It's a perfect circle of giving that helps to keep the good and righteous GOP in power. But hey we're not completely selfish. We do look after the little guy sometimes. Just look at all the underprivalaged kids who might not have a job if we didn't ship them to Iraq to kill brown people.
If we Kut-and-Run what's going to happen to them? You ever think of that? Guess not. So in the name of God, Freedom, Family Values and all that's good and true, let the killing continue. It's good for business and that's good for everyone. Jesus would want it this way. God Bless America! Praise the lord! Amen!

[bkurtin]

The entire executive branch is guilty of breaking their oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States. They are collectively doing all that they can to destroy what every member of the armed forces have died for or become horribly disfigured for. They are guilty of treason and should be treated as such. As for the current debacle, Hassert, et al are guilty of being accessories after the fact and thus are criminals too. Is this country strong enough to rebound? I pray so. Let's get out of Iraq NOW!

[joeshields56]

With no real proof of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, just unsubstantiated rumors, the U.S.A. invaded a sovereign nation with no just cause. "shock and awe", "axis of evil"... and we wonder why Iran and North Korea are scrambling for nuclear weapons? The world problems are not hither but within. We need different leadership in this country. Voters, November 7th is coming. Do your duty.

[bellal-2009]

mh4cbs1,Even the Democrats aren't supporting your call to get out,or so they say. So what's the point in voting for them? They haven't put forth any solutions. as far as the stock market soaring, it did so in the 90's and we all benefited what's different. The poor kids fighting the war? No, the same families have always sent their kids to fight. Their dads and their dad's dad and their dad's dad's dad fought. Believe me I know. It's an honor and country thing.

[borntwice-2009]

Jesus said,"Peace be with you."

[scottish26]

trailboss49 you are the one whose wrong. A couple years ago the number of 100,000 dead/wounded Iraqis came out in a study and was reported by numerous sources

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html

This one refers to 100,000 bout half way through

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6354133/

As of 2004 the numbers were reaching 6 digits and that was 2 years ago.

I say shame on us all for allowing this circus that Bush is running to continue on its merry way and not holding those in charge accountable.

According to the allies at Nuremburg what Bush has done is committed a crime against peace he invaded a country that had not done harm to the US and used the excuse of preemptive strikes using weapons that have since not been found. Preemptive strikes were illegal for Hitler and are just as illegal for Bush sad part is Bush is getting away with it because the US's moral compass is all messed up since 911 with people eating at the fear table that Bush has laid out. It's time to stop feeding on the fear he's serving and reset this moral compass. Invading a country that was not involved with 911 is wrong period.

If you struck someone first cause you thought he/she was going to hit you then you would be the starter of the fight and found guilty if charged.

Peace

[scottish26]

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/imtconst.htm#art6

"Article 6.

The Tribunal established by the Agreement referred to m Article 1 hereof for the trial and punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis countries shall have the power to try and punish persons who, acting in the interests of the European Axis countries, whether as individuals or as members of organizations, committed any of the following crimes.

The following acts, or any of them, are crimes coming within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal for which there shall be individual responsibility:

(a) CRIMES AGAINST PEACE: namely, planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing;"

bellaL:
Democrats have lots of plans and solutions, but you won't find them on Fox News or Drudge. See the 30-page presentation of Democtratic plans and solutions at http://www.democraticleader.house.gov/pdf/thebook.pdf

Stock market soaring? It just last week finally got back to where was the day that W announced for president (look it up). And that is just because the oil prices have finally let up, just in time for the election. Most analysts expect continued sideways motion, in sharp contrast to the soaring market under Bill Clinton.

It is an honor thing for those in our volunteer army, but more and more are realizing that they were mislead into war, and so badly lead due to Rumsfeld's incompetence. This war should have been over in one year. Rumsfeld tried to outsource it and underman it, didn't secure the country when it was easy, wouldn't change course except to react to developments on the ground only well after they were reported in the New York Times.

They used to say the Palestinians under Arafat never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Well times have changed, and now it is the USA under GWBush, at least with regard to foreign and military policy, that seemingly never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

[bellal-2009]

Why should the war have been over in one year? Civil War was always the danger that was the argument for not invading. Whatever. The Democrats do not have a plan and I suggest they sit it out until they can come up with a good reason for even existing.

[bellal-2009]

Ok, I was wrong the Democrats do have a plan. What was it, Democrats' plan to reward work not wealth. Well, that ought to do it for them.

[huskerarmy]

"The Democrats do not have a plan and I suggest they sit it out until they can come up with a good reason for even existing."

The Democrats have no plan, stay the course, fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here,liberal media bias, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, la la la, finger in my ears, la la la, stay the course, Democrats have no plan, la la la...

Thank God the neo-con plan is working so well...

[huskerarmy]

"Civil War was always the danger that was the argument for not invading."

"We will be greeted as liberators...with flowers." -*** Chaney

[huskerarmy]

ooops! Shoud have said D. Chaney... semantics really.

la la la, finger in my ears, la la la, stay the course, Democrats have no plan, la la la...

[huskerarmy]

"The poor kids fighting the war? No, the same families have always sent their kids to fight."

Conservatives seldom need facts because they have such a well developed sense of romanticism. Nevertheless, the book "Rich Man's War, Poor Man's Fight" does a good job dispelling the conservative myth that rural, white Republicans fight American wars and provides a better understanding of how war feeds the rich and buries the poor. Before you attack me Mr. neo-con, I am a veteran. Like many working class liberals, my father and three brother also served. Link:

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=73511160164982

[bellal-2009]

Huskerarmy, the Democrats don't have a plan. I've been one most of my life and I've never seen them in such an inneffective position. What on earth do they have to offer. This is the wrong time for them.

[bellal-2009]

Huskerarmy, OK, what pray tell is the Democrats' plan other?

[huskerarmy]

bellat,

Sorry but "I used to be a Dem," sounds a lot like "Some of my best friends are..." Did you check the Democraticleader web site? Will you?
Unfortunately, good ideas don't always translate into electoral victory. Sometimes lies and corruption can be effective. Knee jerk reactions, a good spin machine and catchy slogans can also be effective but hardly substitute for a real plan. The bottom line... If you are happy with the status quo, then stay with the plan, i.e. - stay the course. It may be a road to ruin but at least it's a plan. Was there a plan in Viet Nam?

[huskerarmy]

I forgot... "la la la, fingers in my ears, la la la, stay the course, Democrats have no plan, la la la..."

[bellal-2009]

Huskerarmy, I did check the website and thankyou for that and I'm afraid it only confirms how I feel. As a veteran of the armed forces certainly you understand that this is an extraordinarily dangerous point in time for the world. We are in the middle of long range plan to conquer terrorism and it would be foolish to stop mid course. We have no way of knowing if the Democrats can do a better job of running the war in Iraq for all we know they could make it worse.

[huskerarmy]

Conservatives,

Since you keep spouting "Dems have no plan," pray tell what is the neo-con plan for Iraq? Please remember to limit your answer to real facts, i.e. - No WMD's, no connection between Iraq and 911, no Al queda cells in Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion, death toll last month highest since 2002.

[huskerarmy]

"We are in the middle of long range plan to conquer terrorism and it would be foolish to stop mid course. We have no way of knowing if the Democrats can do a better job of running the war in Iraq for all we know they could make it worse."

1. As a veteran, I am much appreciative of the Geneova Conventions. What we do to them, they will certainly do worse to us.
2. Whether or not the Dem's can do a better job of "running the war" is a moot point as far as I'm concerned. We are having it handed to us. One reason is the "plan." The administration has not been honest about the troop levels needed. A tax cut for the rich that could have paid for body armor, among other things.
3. ...Make it worse? I'll leave that one alone. Hopefuly the voters will take the 99 to 1 odds.

[random_radar]

Democrats started the Viet Nam war and Republicans continued it as long as they could.

Republicans started the Iraq war, and soon we will see if Democrats really will end it. I am not holding my breath.

Governments don't like to lose face. Losing a war is the ultimate embarassment in international politics. Its like saying "My dad can beat up your dad," having them actually fight, and then discovering you were wrong.

Negative public opinion ended the Viet Nam war. Pseudo-patriots argue that we should "support our troops" by sending them to die. I prefer to save our troops by bringing them home. I know that many of our soldiers are praying that the folks at home will apply negative public pressure to rescue them.

There are wars worth fighting, but Iraq is not one of them and I don't expect any of my neighbors to die for their country in a useless war. I am not opposed to killing terrorists to protect our nation; I am opposed to using the threat of terror to justify imperial adventurism.

If we sang all of our national anthem, instead of just the first verse, our children might get the right message. In the fourth verse is a telling line: "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just!" There is the key--our cause needs to be just. I am sorry, but Iraq is not that cause.

[huskerarmy]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the "plan."

The administration... justifies the war and its costs in the name of national security But... this war has so weakened and demoralized the US military that even retired military leaders have risen in unprecedented revolt.

Moreover, sixteen of our own intelligence services now tell us that the war has only increased the terrorist threat.

And then there is the incalculable cost to America's reputation. We have lost the respect of allies who once looked to us as a beacon of hope--not fear.

[rbird8728]

This war was begun with a series of lies and fabrications and continues to be operated on that basis. Our poor babbling elected executive constantly repeats the same claptrap over and over at the slightest invitation. Additionally, the vice-babbline executive has his own line of ***..i.e., "they're coming to get you". They have given all of their cronies opportunities to rip of the American public to the maximum so, at the end of this administration there should be quite a few newly rich in the Washington society circles.

[bellal-2009]

Well, Huskerarmy, you make very good points but I don't believe the Democrats' automatically have the ability to do a better job. And the other part of that intelligence report says terrorism will increase if we don't see this through.

[perception5]

This war on terror is being fought mostly in the media. That's bad news for the USA because we have a corrupt liberal MSM that has decided to run phony news stories, doctored photos, and promote lying book deals in support of their pals the DEMS. Looks like we have another axis of evil emerging.... our corrupt MSM, the DEMS, and the terrorists. It's sad to say but I don't think I've ever seen our left-wing MSM or the DEMS ever support the world's enemies before...Anything to gain power I guess...... Forgot about the issues and where the parties stand...... let's lie our way to power......

[kailumego1]

I don't care if Bill Clinton, himself, initiated it, it would still be a disaster.
Are some people so vain and caught in their own malignant narcissism that it clouds their better judgment?
So, ok what does it take a couple more thousand U.S. soldiers to die, before, you partisan "junkies" wake up and smell the "coffee".
Why does issues of grave importance have to always center on partisanship affiliation.
George Bush is reckless and senile, and he doesn't have the American people's interest at the forefront when he makes these "insane" decisions.
And I am so tired of these so-called patriots, ranting and raving like lunatics, every time some one has an entirely different view or perspective.
American people need to make their leaders more accountable; after all, we are taxpayers, voters, and a voice of collective consciousness, at least some of us, capable on deciding how our country should be run.
And it makes no difference which party, as long as, who ever is elected operates under the guidance on what is best for America, collectively, and not a small percentage of the population.
This administration wreaks corruption, mismanagement, and "insanity".

[kailumego1]

It's a real pity that certain members of this population are blinded by their own, as well as their leaders, malignant narcissism, in which they are too mesmerized by self-interest to acknowledge the corruption that exists with this administration.
We are fighting an illegal war, which we have absolutely no business being involved.
And all this paranoia over "terrorist" lurking behind every corner or bush is ludicrous.
It's a shame that individuals are so caught up in partisanship, that if the "truth" knocked them off their feet, or stared them right in the face, they still would be in denial.
This is not a Republican vs. Democratic issue; it is an issue about management and accountability, in which this administration has failed miserably.
And it doesn't take a "rocket-scientist" to know this war has been an absolute disaster.

[mobaugh]

My thoughts on the IRAQ war: Immoral, Illegal,Unjustified,Folly.
My thoughts on President Bush, etal: Immoral, Incompetent, Liar(s), Narcisstic, Arrogant.

We are the lauphing stock on the World Stage and we have allowed it to happen. SHAME on us!

[staff2--2008]

whats the fuss all about...President Bush says we are in Iraq to fight terrorism...and he is after all the 'war president'...one mans terorist is anothers freedom fighter...you're either with us or against us...start a war the 'terrorists' (freedom fighters) will come...it's in our 'national security' to kill as many (or have many killed) Iraqi nationals as possible...when we go and start to rebuild their country into our image their oil reserves will go a long way for paying the ultimate bill for this war...wanna drive your 20MPG car?...you better support these kinds of wars...another option would be to demand that the federal government step in and require car makers to deliver cars with at less dependence on oil...but that would be too leftist...too 'green'...can't have that...how then will our oil companies ever make their fortunes???????

[jimc52]

According to The Oregonian (10/11/06), the death toll for Iraqui's is estimated at between 400,000 and 700,000 since our invasion. Does national security justify the death of nearly 1 million people? Many of them are innocent civilians, men, woman and children killed every day. The Republicans like to take all the credit for ending the cold war. I want to know who President's Truman, Kennedy, Johnson and Carter were during those 60 years of Cold War. If you think the Democrats aren't patriotic, what about those presidents and over 40 years of Democratic Leadership in the Congress during those years? It was John Foster Dullas, who got us involved in Vietnam in the 1950's under Eisenhaur...both Republicans. Most Americans don't know their own history or allow distortionists and propagandists to form their opinions. The fact is, that the Republicans don't have any answers for the horrible mess THEY have created out of their own arrogant, narrow-minded and bigoted right wing agenda.
They think that our troops will be in Iraq until 2010. Unfortunately for them, they won't be in power to make that decision for much longer.

[scottish26]

Have to love King George's reply though to that figure of 600k plus in Iraqis dead.

----------------------------------------

Oh no it isn't that high that's just not right for it to be that high. It's me that's high instead in my fantasy land of what life really is like. But in regards to those number nope not even close cause that's not what I want the American people and the world to know.

-------------------------------------

I doubt King George knows how to tell the truth and not have some sort of spin and smoke screens on it. If I was Barb I would be hanging my head in shame. Every time I see King George's face it always has that smug little grin on it like he knows what he's saying is false. Like ha they won't see right through me if I smuggly smile at them.