Unlikely Terrorists On No Fly List

Steve Kroft Reports List Includes President Of Bolivia, Dead 9/11 Hijackers

(CBS)  This segment was originally broadcast on Oct. 8, 2006. It was updated on June 7, 2007.

Anyone who has passed through an airport in the last five years and has been pulled aside for extra screening knows that the government and the airlines keep a list of people they consider to be security threats. Every time you check in at the ticket counter your name is run through a computer to make sure you are not on something called the "No Fly List." It's part of a secret government database compiled after 9/11 to prevent suspected terrorists from getting on airplanes. As correspondent Steve Kroft reports, if your name is on the list or even similar to someone on the list, you can be detained for hours.

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It began as a project of the highest priority. In 2003, President Bush directed the nation’s intelligence agencies and the FBI to cooperate in creating a single watch list of suspected terrorists. A version of that list is given to the airlines and the Transportation Security Administration to prevent anyone considered a threat to civilian aviation from boarding a plane. The government won’t divulge the criteria it uses in making up the list or even how many names are on it. But in the spring of 2006, working with a government watchdog group called the National Security News Service, 60 Minutes was able to obtain a copy of the No Fly List from someone in aviation security who wanted us to see what the bureaucracy had wrought.

The first surprise was the sheer size of it. In paper form it is more than 540 pages long. Before 9/11, the government’s list of suspected terrorists banned from air travel totaled just 16 names; today there are 44,000. And that doesn’t include people the government thinks should be pulled aside for additional security screening. There are another 75,000 people on that list.

With Joe Trento of the National Security News Service, 60 Minutes spent months going over the names on the No Fly List. While it is classified as sensitive, even members of Congress have been denied access to it. But that may have less to do with national security than avoiding embarrassment.

Asked what the quality is of the information that the TSA gets from the CIA, the NSA and the FBI, Trento says "Well, you know about our intelligence before we went to war in Iraq. You know what that was like. Not too good."

"This is much worse," Trento argues. "It’s awful, it's bad. I mean you’ve got people who are dead on the list. You’ve got people you know are 80 years old on the list. It makes no sense."

60 Minutes certainly didn’t expect to find the names of 14 of the 19 9/11 hijackers on the list since they have been dead for five years. 60 Minutes also found a number of high profile people who aren’t likely to turn up at an airline ticket counter any time soon, like convicted terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui, now serving a life sentence in Colorado, and Saddam Hussein, who at the time was on trial for his life in Baghdad.

One person who was not surprised is former FBI agent Jack Cloonan, who was retiring from the bureau’s al Qaeda task force just as the list was being put together.

"I did see Osama bin Laden on the list both with an "O" in the first name and a "U" in the second name. I was glad to see that. But, some of the other names that I see here, you know, I just have to scratch my head and say, 'My good, look what we've created,'" Cloonan says.

Intended to be a serious a serious intelligence document, Cloonan says the No Fly List soon became a "cover your rear end" document designed to protect bureaucrats and make the public feel more secure.

"I know in our particular case they basically did a massive data dump and said 'Ok anybody that’s got a nexus to terrorism, let’s make sure they get on the list,'" Cloonan explains. "And once that train left the station, or once that bullet went down range. There was no calling it back. And that is where we are."

The person who oversaw the project is Donna Bucella, who has run the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center since it began operations in 2003. Her group is responsible for evaluating the information submitted by the various intelligence agencies and actually compiling the list.

Asked if she is confident that the list is complete and accurate, Bucella says, "It's like painting a bridge. Once you finish one end, you gotta come back. So we endeavor to get the list as current and accurate and thorough as possible."

"We got a look at the No Fly List from March. And included on that list were 14 of the 19 September 11th hijackers. How do you explain that?" Kroft asks.

"Well, just because a person has died doesn't necessarily mean that their identity has died. People sometime carry the identities of people who have died," she says.

"What you are saying is that you have no information that this person is alive and poses a threat. It's just a name in the database," Kroft asks.

"In order fort the name to get in the data base there has to be information that they are a known suspected terrorist," Bucella says.

"So you are saying it's just a coincidence that there are 14 names in the computer that match the names of 9/11 terrorists. I mean, how do you account for that?" Kroft asks.

Bucella asked how recent this watch list was. When told it was from March, she said, "For some reason the agency might not necessarily want to have taken the name off the list. I can't explain that."

"Also on the list is Francois Genoud, who was a Nazi sympathizer and financier of Arab terrorism. Been dead for ten years," Kroft remarks.

"Well, when you said his - this is what we're doin' a quality review on our watch list," Bucella replies.

[dvpotter1]

This problem can be easily solved for people on the list it is called a finger print and picture. Wwith the technology we have today just scan their prints and let them go it they have cleared before. I dont mind the taking off of shoes and searching of carry ons, and metal detectors. Give these guys a break!!!

[lorang79]

The idea of releasing a list to the most critical point of national security is a good one, but this is a joke! Our own government is spitting in our faces, and calling it intelligent. It's an attitude that defines the difference between sociallism and democracy. It's an abuse of power and money, more then likely for either more power or money. In other words, the purpose of this list could not be for national security. It's either a front for access to allocated money into something else, or a political device used to belittle someone else. Whatever the actual purpose, it's abuse. I think we're seeing more and more of this sort of attitude, and I think it contridicts everything we have thought to stand for. Law is replacing common sense, and the purpose of the law is being exponged and replaced with blind obedience. We are becoming more like the enemies we have fought in the past, and less like the beacon of freedom we are thought to be.

[boudread]

I catch the last part of your report and to me the best news you reported was that, "As for Donna Bucella, she has left the FBI for a job in the private sector." As I saw your report it could be seem easily that person like Donna have been receiving their HIGH salaries and NOT getting the job done. I have worked with computer over 25 years and know systems can do better jobs. What we probably have is what I would call, "To many hands in the POT." Just an off the wall sujection is to take that pictured database that you were showing who was the real terrorist. and have it placed into each individual AIRPORT computer systems. Then have each airline access that 1 single database to see if the person is that one BAD person.

[alpha56-2009]

I am terrorist David Nelson:
Am I a terrorist? Of course not, but I am a threat to the American Transportation Industry.
I am a "Whistle Blower"
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/September95/520.txt.html
When I filed the first suit on behalf of the people, CSX had me put on a (at that time)Transportation High Security watch list, in an effort to discredit my allegations of fraud. After 9-11 I was dumped into the TSA computer, which involves all transportation.
I filed a second False Claims suit in 2001 when CSX and John Snow refused to stop the "white collar crimes". I was a part of a criminal and civil investigation on CSX and John Snow (U.S. Attorney Generals Office and USDOT,OIG)at, the same time Snow was nominated and accepted as the U.S. Secreatary of Treasury.
The information I have, prevents the Feds and states from working to improve the (privatized) rail system infrastructure, in order to get the Asian products to the American market place.
So much for FREEDOM!

[lobot6]

Being involved in law enforcement and maintaining records on individuals contacted by four different agencies the first thing that crossed my mind in watching the "No Fly List" Commentary is "Why on earth don't they just post the photos of these individuals whose names are posted." The second thought is why can't those individuals who have been cleared receive some sort of "Clearance Identification" stating that they are not the party designated as a threat. Holy Cow we have Driver's Licenses, and all sorts of Personal identifications with Photos on them why does the government have to continuously stop these legitimate people and take up so much of their time. Oh that's right it's the GOVERNEMENT and God forbid we haven't spent enough of our taxpayers money on idiotic surveys, professional opinions and recommendations.

[cmovinc]

Our company has been trying to work with TSA (DHS) for over three years in trying to develop a national database for truck drivers. This database would have been the proto-type for "REAL-ID". The bottom line is that all the problems displayed in your story would have been solved with our database solution. Simply put, TSA would have been able to review a picture of the person on the list of questionable characters and determined when to do further checking and when to simply let someone go. This is not the only quick check that is available using our system, but is certainly an improvement over the current "pathetic" excuse that is in use by TSA today. In addition our system is dramatically less expensive.

[jjp735i]

Why do we, the tax payers, continue to get shafted like this?

True people of risk are not even added to the list for security reasons? I thought the no fly list was enabled for security reason.

It is 2008 yet? Lord help us we need a change in leader ship!

[mcvet]

The Bush Administration and the Republican Party in General are nothing but a bunch of Cowards. That is why they have failed so badly in defending this nation. You can't defeat Terrorist by doing what they have, by giving the people who want to make you scared, who want you afraid of everyone, what they want. If everyone will think back to the decade of the 60's when college students and blacks took on the established terrorist in the South, a folks these people were just as bad if not worse than the Taliban, you can understand how we should be taking on radical Islam. The NAME of the Religion isn't important, the METHOD IS!! When we understand that the MODERATES and the average guy in the Middle East is the key. When we understand that we MUST take away the weapon of Terrorist, the FEAR, then we start to defeat it. Being a Southern Fascist, a COWARD? That's not going to solve anything. Sieg Heil Y'all.

What are we all complaining about?

I for one am very glad that people who have been dead for ten years will have to face questioning should they ever try to board a flight.

It makes me feel so much more safer.

And heck, I never want to sit next to Osama (or Usama) Bin Laden should he ever board a flight.

Goodness gracious me - whatever would we talk about?

His suntan? His camels? His view of desert from his cave?

Thank god the Bush Admin is on top of all this terrorism business.

[bobrc51]

I travel for business every week and I'm on the no fly list. I was in the US Navy for 13yrs, so I have served for my country. I have to add another two hrs onto my arrival before flight time. What is most irritating is the counters are using electronic kiosk. They point me to them;I explain to them that it won't work but they insist. 10 minutes later process, it kicks me out and says I have to see an attendant. Once I get to the counter the questions begin. My check-in time to get a ticket is 3x longer as a non-no fly list member. I still have to get through security which at times can get stressful. I asked questions and submitted my paperwork(4 times with no response). I see myself standing in line and I see others get through so easily. Makes me wonder why I volunteered to defend this country. I understand that we have to protect our borders why does it have to be at the expense of our innocent. When I hear somebody who complains about our country. My question to these people is did you serve? 9 of 10 times the answer is no, so I tell them until you do you don't understand. I just wish I had a chain of command to go to that can give me a valid response; why I can't get my name off this list. My question to you is the ones that made this list are they on it?

[gregorio12-2009]

I do not believe there is such a thing as an unlikely terrorist.
They either are or are not.
And... You don't know until they do something. The consequences far out weigh the time of inconvienience spent on extra security.

[bichondog]

The following email was sent to the TSA in January 2007 reg the terrorist watch list and has been ignored: 1/26/07National Security Concerns. Please read carefully
My boarding was delayed for the first time today, in my Department of Defense related travels from Denver to Alb, NM, apparently because I am now on a terrorist watch list. You should be aware of the following:1) I am a scientist with TOP SECRET DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE CLEARANCE AND HAVE BEEN DOING WORK FOR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT FOR MY ENTIRE CAREER OF NEARLY 30 YEARS. In fact, today I flew to New Mexico to give a talk to Government Scientists on my work. I nearly missed the flight because you have just seen fit to add me to your watch list;2) My name is not John Smith or some other common name that may be used by someone of real interest to you. There is only one Jeffrey ... in the United States.I deserve a non-form-letter reply on why my future travels will be delayed. If you believe that I may have some terrorist connection, then you MUST CONTACT THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, IMMEDIATELY, AND ADVISE THEM TO TAKE AWAY MY TOP SECRET CLEARANCE. You cannot have a scientist helping his Government develop laser weapons and also put that person on some no fly watch list. (I have also received Q-clearance from the Department of Energy)

[smc1941]

This reinforces my belief that Americans have book learning but no common sense.

[tsamfr]

Is it really that much of an inconvenience to be detained for 5 or 6 minutes to go through extra screening? It never killed anyone to be detained for 5 minutes so don't act like it is the worse thing that could happen to you. Think about the alternatives if someone got on the plane that wasn't checked who had the same name of a terrorist and didn't get extra screened. Would you want them on your plane? So get over it and let TSA do there jobs. They are doing what they are told to do so don't take it out on the screeners like some of you people like to do. How would you like to be in there shoes and get hastled by passengers for 40 to 50 hours a week. So people just move on with your lives and get over it.

It is for your own good. It might help to go tho the TSA website and see the latest restrictions so it will speed your process of getting through the checkpont faster.

[exploder750]

I'm sorry, but as I was listening via radio to your reporter on this story tonight, he sounded whiny and vindictive when asking the government official "how do you account for this?" in reference to the 14 dead 9-11 highjackers being on the no fly list. Just as whiny & vindictive about asking about the President of Libya being on the list. This reporter's tone reminded me of the whiny reporter on the GM Goodwrench commercials; "If you love Mr. Goodwrench, why don't you marry him?" LOL Has investigative journalism dropped that low? Lately with the tone of the "new school" guys on 60 minutes it seems to have done that!! Scot Thayer, Cottage Grove, Mn.

[dvpotter1]

This list is a sham. My Dad who was in the military, retired civil servent with a top security clearence, worked on Patriot,stinger and other missles and security for the goverment is on the list. He went to renew his drivers liscence and couldn't because he was on the terrorist list. He is 75 years old!! Had to bring in his birth certificate in order for them to over ride the list. Plans are a nightmare!! How does a man with so much military and civil service end up on the list. Maybe we should replace some of the nuts making the list.

[lukemccain12]

Interesting how the first to respond are the trolls. Wonder who they work for? The No Fly List Story shows just what a joke the U.S. has become. No, it is not just an inconvenience for the people falsely on the list. It is harmful, hurtful, wasteful and wrong. It is worse than not doing anything about terrorism. The bureaucrats interviewed use the excuse that it is necessary and that you just have to get used to it. These comments showed their lack of moral character and amoral behavior. We need real, reasonable safety measures. Not this Kafkaesque nonsense. The TSA has failed. It should be abolished. Of course, the real bottom line of such policies is to limit the freedom of movement by American Citizens.

[nfangus]

You know that if the officials - police and homeland security - could identify the race and age of the suspects alot of the confusion regarding identity would be cleared up.

[donnie900]

There are firefighters? Cops? Probation officers? Civil servants? Garbage men? And now there are PUBLIC AIRLINE SECURITY SERVICES! Funded by your's truly: Uncle Sam.

[donnie900]

Al Pacino? F you! Robert De'Niro? F you. De Supranos? F you! Its de "age'a de geek".