Gonzales Wants New Web Rules

Attorney General: ISPs Should Preserve Customer Info To Help Fight Kid Porn

(AP)  Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Tuesday that Congress should require Internet service providers to preserve customer records, asserting that prosecutors need them to fight child pornography.

Testifying to a Senate panel, Gonzales acknowledged the concerns of some company executives who say legislation might be overly intrusive and encroach on customers' privacy rights. But he said the growing threat of child pornography over the Internet was too great.

"This is a problem that requires federal legislation," Gonzales told the Senate Banking Committee. "We need information. Information helps us makes cases."

He called the government's lack of access to customer data the biggest obstacle to deterring child porn.

"We have to find a way for Internet service providers to retain information for a period of time so we can go back with a legal process to get them," he said.

Gonzales and FBI Director Robert Mueller have met with several Internet service providers, including Time Warner Inc.'s AOL, Comcast Corp., Google Inc., Microsoft Corp. and Verizon Communications Inc.

The law enforcement officials have indicated to the companies they must retain customer records, possibly for two years. The companies have discussed strengthening their retention periods — which currently run the gamut from a few days to about a year — to help avoid legislation.

At Tuesday's hearing, Gonzales said he agreed with the sentiment of 49 state attorneys general who in a June letter to Congress expressed support for a federal law that would require longer retention of customer records.

"We respect civil liberties but we have to harmonize this so we can get more information," he said.

The subject has prompted some alarm among Internet service provider executives and civil liberties groups after the Justice Department took Google to court earlier this year to force it to turn over information on customer searches. Civil liberties groups also have sued Verizon and other telephone companies, alleging they are working with the government to provide information without search warrants on subscriber calling records.

Justice Department officials have said that any proposal would not call for the content of communications to be preserved and would keep the information in the companies' hands. The data could be obtained by the government through a subpoena or other lawful process.

[xfredmenzies]

Why is Alberto Gonzales so obsessed with child porn? I'll bet he is a kiddy fiddler himself.

[jshudson2]

This has nothing to do with child pornography. The US Government is spying on you and the information Mr. Gonzales collects will be used to oppress and control you.

[sagethrasher]

Unfortunately, Gonzales has no more remaining personal credibility than anyone else in this administration. It's simply not possible to trust his stated intentions anymore.

[jeff776]

We want ISP's numbers to preserve customers information so...uh...so we can...uh....uh Fight Child Porn! Yah that's right we are launching a new fight against child porn one of my biggest battles yet.


*whispers to secretary*

Do you think they are buying it?

[jeff776]

Dateline NBC does a better job realing in cho-mo's than the FBI.

[star2874]

"Renditions," "Torture," "Illegal Wire Taps," "Imprisonment Without Trial," "Secret Evidence." This must be the Soviet Union. Oh...I'm sorry...it's the new United States of America. You know, the one we all fought for. When will our citizens wake-up? Where's the outrage? I guess it will be there after all of their rights are gone. I never thought I'd hear discussions and proposals like this in the U.S.

[cincigal74]

Does ANYONE really believe one word rhis thug says?Like he cares about kiddie porn.In a pigs eye.

[cantshutup]

so they keep on keepin on...if you haven't called, emailed, or written your representatives and congresspeople do so now...i can't believe anyone would buy this BS!!! this administration is scary and put iran on top of it...what a giant CLUSTER PHLUCK!!!

[cantshutup]

GONZALES, YOU FREAK!

[gottaberando]

I'm not very up-to-date on this topic, but would someone please explain to me why there is such a sudden need for this legislation? Has MJ started putting videos of him molesting little boys onto YouTube, and the Bush administration is out to catch whoever looks at it? I'd like to know more about how they plan to analyze the data, and decide who goes to a secret CIA prision, and who doesn't. Perhaps it will be based on how much money you gave the Republican Party last election. I don't know, I'm all for stopping pedophiles, but I don't really trust the government to capture and handle the data in the appropriate manner. I think I'd rather have my freedoms and not have the nanny state watching my evermove to ensure that I don't do anything they wouldn't want. Oh no, that might include going to Cuba on my non-American passport! The less freedoms Bush revokes the better off we'll all be in 2009. The next thing you know, the government will be siding with the big corporations, and we'll all have to pay outragious amounts of money to look at /. because Net Neutrality got shot by *** Cheney. This is like the Australian bill to ban all pornography sites unless the user specifies otherwise. I don't need the government making my decisions, I'm capable enough to do that myself.

[ombwah]

So, here's a couple issues that no one seems to point out.

1st, and foremost at that:
Child pornography doesn't *occur* on the internet. Neither is it a market making real money on the internet. It is content of indeterminate real age that is traded from peer to peer on shady websites, and generally *not* by the original creator of the sicka*s content. This is because most peddlers/distributors of this *** are bright enough to cover their pedophilic as*es.

In short, this legislation will do literally F**k-all to stop it from occurring.

2nd. Don't these politicians realize that if this data exists I can, by extension, subpeona their internet useage records since the public pays for their access? How'd they like that?

They've got to realize that this legislation only drives a grey market of easy to use anonymizer tech that makes the job of catching careless sickos harder for them, while not stemming the actual criminal activity one bit (There was kiddie porn well before the internet was a glimmer of an inkling.)

So, I'm throwing the BS card.

Also consider; Is this a bid to watch your activities for *any* reason at all? Just using the hotbutton "Oh god not my children" tactic to get the vote of the technologically ignorant?

Coouuld beee!

[justtwo]

Will this law just be used for child porn OR could it in the future, be used to harrass me if I look up a website that is not in line with the repub. party?

[rainingwolf3]

If you are not outraged--you are NOT paying attention!

[anony3141592]

"proposal would not call for the content of communications to be preserved"

So, it doesn't matter what I happen to be saying to (or listening to) a site, only what sites I'm talking to? As an example, suppose my computer gets infected with a virus that sends HTTP requests to random entries in a list of child porn URLs. I haven't done anything (or even know anything is happening), but my ISP suddenly has a million data bits linking me to CP sites. With a law like this, I could suddenly find myself under investigation - my private files and documents searched through, my business activities on hold, and my good name ruined.

Come to think of it, if this passes, such a software attack could become an excellent way to frame or blackmail someone. A law like this would leave a lot more innocent casualties than genuine wrongdoers caught.

[getcentered]

Wow! Congress is on a role! First they pass the HORSE LAW and get move right along to the next ULTRA HIGH priority.....Kiddy Porn, Yea!

I mean come on!!

Where are Gonzales's priorities? Does the number of people making kiddy porn even compare to the number of people making crack cocaine? Or how about "The TERRORISTS".
Maybe this is just another distraction for us all to take in, as our leaders pass another law granting power to the Executive in Chief.

Ohh, I am so tired of the GOP/ Republican/ conservative way of doing things I could just puke. Where are the REAL Republicans?
You know, the ones that can think freely AND listen, and don't just repeat the latest Karl Rove Talking Point Memo (KRTPM)!!!!!!!
It seems they have all sold out :( ............. and so now it is time for them to get the boot.

.....but good job Gonzales,
you found us some more "evil doers"!

[crosbystills]

This is purely another attempt from the Bush Anti- Terror Squad( otherwise known as BATS)to exhume as much dirt on our lives in the name of Terrorism. They use child-porn as the reason but, like Senor Gonzales said they need info,info,info to prosecute. Prosecute what? Somebody that goes to an 18 under porn site, or the guy who goes to a Muslim site to try and understand? Or, fill in the blank? It's all a political tactic by the GOP to make a last ditch effort at election time. They have no interest in stopping child porn. Maybe THEY should clean their hard drive before they try and pass this BS!

[hermit22]

Doesn't anyone care about the kids? All the paranoid rhetoric, and no suggestions.

How would YOU catch those perverts on line?

[chagasi]

I'm so tired of hearing "Sure they can do it. I have nothing to hide."

I have nothing to hide, either, but I sure as hell don't want the government in my business. They don't need to know. It's MY information. MY life. They need a subpoena to search my house. My property. It should be difficult for them to get information and leaving the information lying around shouldn't make it easier for them.

What happens if one day my Wireless is unsecured, for whatever reason? Or one of my roommates (I'm in college) while I'm asleep, looks at it in their room? How do I prove it's not me just because the account is in my name?

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to move to China and try to use google and see if they like the results. Then come back to AMERICA, where our lives are PRIVATE, and wake up and smell the coffee. The government is already on the slope of a slippery-slope and this is just one more thing to help them down the slope faster.

[gramto7]

I started getting upset about the rights we were losing shortly after the 'Patriot Act' was passed, and it has only gone from bad to worse. I have written to my Congressmen numerous times about various bills that have been before them, but usually feel that they aren't listening. It takes more than just a few people writing to make an impact on them. Get their email addresses from firstgov.gov or whatever other source you might use, and then deluge their offices about any and all problems you have with the way things are going. The more people they hear from, the more they will listen.

[some_clarity]

Re "Doesn't anyone care about the kids?" :

The simple solution has been made illegal by our government (because rather than solutions, they want a pretext to errode civil liberty and seize more power): Legalize "patterns of light", whatever form they might take, so long as they are computer generated... that takes physical entities out of the production process --- including *children* --- and removes motivation for their exploitation.

[blablap]

If law enforcement is incapable of making a case with the normal credit card & paypal and other payment records, they are inept. They are trying to legislate fishing expidations. Anyone with a brain can see how utterly non-american this is.

[sharncedar]

"How would YOU catch those perverts on line?"

Trying to understand how it is a crime to be on-line, or what crime you an commit while on-line. Is it a crime to be a "pervert" and on-line at the same time? Is that our semi-legal amigo "Gonzoles" intepretion of the law? Probably, in Mexico, it would be illegal to be on-line. Who knows.

If a person is committing a crime, one would expect that would commit it in person, that is, with human bodies involved. Therefore, it would make sense to catch them in person, actually committing a crime, rather than on-line, where they cannot commit an actual crime in the historical sense of crime (which requires some action, at least before our merger with Mexico).

So, our amigo just wants to spy on our emails and activities, like any other "pervert".

[long_rider]

This is just another government smoke screen. They are trying to further erode our constitutional rights (freedom of speech). They already monitor the internet, and the site we are on. This is a classic example of the government not being able to control the American citizens, so they put controls on business.

This administration is a sham. If the democrats get power I hope the majority of Americans push their congressmen and senators to rid our nation of the political blight in the Whitehouse.

[rharrin1]

If gonzales wants to stop crime he should look at the white house reasons for going to Iraq. The GOP tried to impeach clinton over s-- with one female bush and cheney have been doing the whole country/world.Been waiting to see if GOP goes after them.

[aaronspace1]

Go anywhere in the country and we see our prison systems filled with people who break the law. Potsmokers, Johns, Bootleggers, Prostitutes and for what? People have vices, whether its gambling, getting high, ***, alcohol, working out, eating ect. Our government destroy the lives of normal, everyday, people, puts them in lock-up, and teaches them how to become real criminals. While pedophiles, rapists,and the lot get counseling, parole hearings and handouts. I'm from a family of old bootleggers, descent country folk who worked hard, and absolutly despises the FBI, ATF and DEA. These organization have done nothing but made the vices of ***, drugs, and guns more lucridtive, dangerous, and by handing off responsibility to black market profiteers and overseas drug cartels, expensive. Billions upon billions of taxpayers dollars have been dropped into the war on "Sin". Are you safer? No. Are the inner cities cleaner? No. Have people stopped using *** and drugs? No. Police don't need to knock on your door to enter private residence anymore. They don't need a search warrent either. So you might as well let them look at your computers. Hell the NSA is already doing it. So keep it up American, trust your elected officials they do such a good job keeping the underpriveledged and impoverished trash locked up and out of society. If we had legal prostitution, maybe some of these fruits would go get a man or women to fulfill their sick fantasies.

[nothappyatall]

Govt fishing is what it's about under the guise of "protecting children" people are obsessed with this whole porn thing- get real, they are IMAGES, hell- it's even a crime to have SIMULATED child porn- stuff that is totalyl computer generated or drawn- which shows this whole thing is about Govt control and the bible thumpers fear of *** of any kind.

It all comes back to the parents- do your job and kids won't BE molested, or photographed nude by strangers in *** acts.

[poppi123456]

If the government has access to all of that information...that's bad, but what if these careless companies have an "information spill" like we have witnessed over and over with Verizon,Ohio University, Veterans Affairs, etc. If someone can steal your identity with that basic information, they could ruin lives with all of that internet data.

This could easily lead to temptation for unlawful search and sesure. Think about just skim the data for red flags and arrest the lot of them. This is the same as kicking in doors and searching random houses, but alot harder for anyone to find out about.

And finaly let's be honest with ourselves. People who exhibit deviant behavior are always going to exist, but does that mean everyone else should lock themselves in a government monitored cage? I would rather have a few sickos out there than imprison myself by giving up more freedom.

For perspective, about 17,000 people die a year from alcohol-related auto accidents or about 40% of all traffic fatalities(this includes about 2000 children). So if this was about really protecting children either someone didn't do their homework or this is a smokescreen for civil-rights theft.

Scared into selling our freedom for some magic beans.

[wilee812]

AHH!!! YES, THE PARTISAN HATE FLOWETH OVER.
When the Clinton administration proposed a bill like this I am sure that you all were on board and showed your full support. Funny how the two sides hate each other so much when they are so much alike. All it takes is a few well paid celebrities, movie makers and television personalities to sway your thinking. It has become a cult of personalities instead of people with ideas, these postings above prove it. Where are your ideas?

[cathaleen]

I think this monitoring should be done by
the parents,website owners and yahoo
and google, etc. If people just use common sense we wouldn't need the government to be involved.

[wilee812]

Finally an idea,
Thanks,
CATHALEEN

[getcentered]

Wow! Congress is on a role! First they pass the HORSE LAW and get move right along to the next ULTRA HIGH priority.....Kiddy Porn, Yea!

I mean come on!!

Where are Gonzales's priorities? Does the number of people making kiddy porn even compare to the number of people making crack cocaine? Or how about "The TERRORISTS".
Maybe this is just another distraction for us all to take in, as our leaders pass another law granting power to the Executive in Chief.

Ohh, I am so tired of the GOP/ Republican/ conservative way of doing things I could just puke. Where are the REAL Republicans?
You know, the ones that can think freely AND listen, and don't just repeat the latest Karl Rove Talking Point Memo (KRTPM)!!!!!!! The ones that my mom used to talk about and vote for?
It seems they have all sold out :( ............. and so now it is time for them to get the boot.

.....but good job Gonzales,
you found us some more "evil doers"!

[pjw4crcc]

This, of course, has nothing to do with "child pornography". That's merely the stalking horse behind which the neo-fascists are attempting to regulate the use of the internet. If a cyber-stormtrooper can track web searches related to pornography, then he can also track searches related to political opposition. Orwell's "Thought Police" are closer to becoming a reality with every passing day.

[annabanana-1]

The last thing we should do now is give Abu Gonzales another avenue to intrude on our privacy. What? All the phone records aren't a big enough pool to fish in?

I wonder how much time they've spent on acutal terrorists, and how much on political adversaries?

[postina-2009]

If you really want to know who the child pornographers and molesters really are, watch this video that was supposed to air on the Discovery Channel in 1994 and was subsequently prohibited at http://www.franklincase.org/silence.htm

[rbird8728]

Protecting children and fighting porography is just the excuse the Gonzales is using. What big brother really wants is a legal excuse to sort through people's e-mail and other transmissions. They like to fancy that they are the 'keeper of the public morals' and will use what ever excuse handy to pursue that goal. Next it will be they're looking for blackmailers, etc. Children are destined to grow up to adulthood (I hope) and it's the parent's job to teach them the adult world and how to avoid the pitfalls designed to entrap the naive. We have far too many childish 'adults' who also feel that they must be 'protected' against the knocks and bangs of the real world.

[phijef]

While protecting children is an admirable goal, the idea of tracking everyone online is not a good one.

Instead, how about posting faces of these perverts or other identifying marks found in the photos/videos themselves all over the internet in the hopes that someone will recognize the pervert and turn him/her in? How about the ability of ISP's to shutdown sites immediately when disgusting material like this is found? I'm sure there is a myriad of other ways we can fight this without giving the governement more of our information.

[azazrael]

My problem with this has many levels -

1) My nephew died in Iraq, so I would like to see the government placing its priorities there. I understand that the gov has agents checking out paperwork on ADULT websites. Either there is a war on or not.

2) Is this going to be one of those 'who needs a warrant' things?

3) One point about the net is it's the only place I know where a 200lb male detective can fake a pedophile into ringing a doorbell for a date with a 13 year old. On the evening news frequently.

4) The same info can be used to determine who visited a political website and donated to a candidate. There is absolutely no guarantee who this info would be released to in the future. Even if these guys are honest will the next gang be?

I think the internet spooks the gov politically - a good thing.