Senate Defies Bush On Terror Bill

GOP-Led Committee Approves Detainee Law Opposed By President

(CBS/AP) 
In the committee vote, Warner was supported by McCain and GOP Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Susan Collins of Maine. Warner, McCain and Graham had been the most active senators opposing Mr. Bush's plan. The vote by the moderate Collins underscored that there might be broad enough GOP support to successfully take on Bush on the floor of the Republican-run Senate.

As the battle mushrooms, it threatens to undermine campaign season assertions by the administration that it has shown a steady hand on security matters and that Republicans should be trusted over Democrats on such issues.

Amplifying Mr. Bush's threat to block the committee's plan, White House spokesman Snow said, "The president will not accept something that shuts the program down" for interrogating detainees. His comments came a day after National Intelligence Director John Negroponte told reporters that the Senate plan would be likely to end the CIA interrogation and detention program.

Mr. Bush still has many congressional allies, including House and Senate leaders and conservatives who want to align themselves with the president's tough stance on interrogation and prosecution.

McCain, a leader on the issue of treatment of detainees, spent more than five years as a prisoner of war during Vietnam. Last year, he overcame Mr. Bush's objections to pass legislation banning cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees.

Leaving his closed-door meeting with the House GOP caucus, Mr. Bush said he would "continue to work with members of the Congress to get good legislation." He complimented a House bill but did not mention the Senate version.

"I reminded them that the most important job of government is to protect the homeland," he said. Mr. Bush was accompanied by Vice President Dick Cheney and White House political adviser Karl Rove.

The White House also released a letter to lawmakers signed by the military's top uniformed lawyers. Saying they wanted to clarify past testimony on Capitol Hill in which they opposed the administration's plan, the lawyers wrote that they "do not object" to sections of Mr. Bush's proposal for the treatment of detainees.

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Letter from military lawyers supporting the president's plan for treatment of detainees (.pdf)

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Two congressional aides who favor McCain's plan said the military lawyers signed that letter after refusing to endorse an earlier one offered by the Pentagon's general counsel, William Haynes, that expressed more forceful support for Mr. Bush's plan.

The aides spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. Asked if Haynes had encouraged them to write the letter, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said, "Not that I'm aware of."

Another bill Mr. Bush is pushing would give legal status to the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. It was approved on a party-line vote by the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday, but is stalled in the House amid opposition from Democrats and some Republicans concerned that the program violates civil liberties.

[mjv2944]

They, meaning politicians are not honorable people. In all of my 60+ years I've never witnessed such disregard for the American people and the Constitution. It is time to take back our country. VOTE THE SCOUNDRELS OUT. They do not deserve to be there. Now is when you can really see justification for term limits.

[book54552134]

Sorry RonnieHM, but your analogy is all wrong. Presidential power proceeds unchecked only when allowed to do so by a compliant Congress. This story has been unfolding for 5 years. The Senate, (controled by Republicans,) could have put a stop to these crimes, almost immediately, if it had wanted to do so. Your partisan attempt to hold Republican Senators blameless for allowing these crimes to continue unchecked for 5 years just doesn't hold water.

[thgdriver]

Ahh, there you are RonnieHM, thanks for the correction!!
I could not believe I did that, I thought I knew that date like I know my birthday. Anyhow, I am sure you and goat got my point.

[actsmarter]

Further clarification of the comment by Colin Powell....."The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism."

I am sure Colin Powell began to doubt the moral basis of the fight against terrorism when he resigned his position. Furthermore, the world began to doubt the moral basis of the fight against terrorism when German Engineers produced this website...
http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/defaulte.htm

Furthermore, the French produced this website titled Hunt the Boeing: http://webplaza.pt.lu/strasjkl/pentagon.html

The British BBC reported the Supposed Hijackers were alive and well at this website....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

Do you really believe the "world" is just beginning to doubt the morality of our war against terror? Wake up, because they questioned it much much earlier.

[hayesmikej]

I hope that there will be bipartisan support for legislation to continue the Geneva Convention protections by the US government, so that actions by any government which fails to observe the conventions will be regarded as unacceptable (and illegal).

Mike Hayes

[actsmarter]

What happened to great republicans like Abraham Lincoln, who would tell us the truth, with no ambition for private enterprise, he was a great public servant, whose focus was on the government of the United States with no ties to "big oil"

Why in this time are there over 1,500,000 views of loose change 911 on the internet? The fact is that in the long run, truth reaches everyone.

I was one of those thinkers that believed that after the end of the cold war that there would be no need for espionage. No need for lies or strategic actions against officials of other nations, and that peace on earth was a definite reachable possibility. I am grateful to the Republicans that oppose any actions that violate the Geneva Convention. Colin Powell's statement should be slightly modified to read... the world has doubted our moral basis in our fight against terrorism since January of 2002, and many Americans are growing to doubt the moral basis in our fight against terrorism due to Internet free speech. Does anyone want to question the morality of Blessed are the peacemakers! or Thou shalt not kill? If the Government will not come forward with the truth, and the bravery to do the right thing, there are plenty of Americans in this country who will. Our constitution was written to prevail, and truth will always win.

[lukebize]

Posted by jRBrook at 10:00 PM : Sep 14, 2006:

"Hurrah! And I thought all Republicans were corrupt, greedy and without moral principles."

No, you have mistaken craven Republican politicians currently holding office with real Americans who adhere to Republican values. They are not the same.

I could introduce you to real Americans (who just happen to be Republican) who are some of the most interesting, charitable, neighborly and honest people I have ever met. Many have lived their lives supporting their President and they are not about to change now.

Many of them have good judgement, high IQs and endless common sense. They deserve to be heard and their opinions given serious consideration.

They are the reason I cannot believe this President was honestly elected.

[mac2499-2009]

If the country, that believes has the right to impose democracy on those countries it feels are a danger to the world and itself and its people, decides that the Geneva convention is not its cup of coffe then I am afraid that country has began the path towards loosing its democracy. I know that the U.S goverment is fighting its so called war on terrorism but your are not going to do it by saying its ok to torture your enemies. That makes the U.S no different than Cuba or China or Syria. My fear is that the U.S. is going to become like China. Capitalistic but a the same time very controlling of its people. And it has already started by tapping into peoples phone, monitoring bank accounts and having trials in secret.

[jrbrook]

Hurrah! And I thought all Republicans were corrupt, greedy and without moral principles.

If you were there seeing all the people that Hitler had ordered to be tortured and killed, you would understand why the Geneva Convention was created. No human being deserves to be treated in such a inhumane way. If you change the Geneva Convention laws and by-laws, you will be allowing any nation to do unto their prisoners what ever they want and America would be looked at as a unmoral country. We may even lose our allies in the near future, which America can not afford to lose.

[pm761]

The truth of the matter regarding "Terror Bill" is that Bush & Co. is in violation of the Geneva Conventions. After he ordered the torture of the prisoners, the secret prisons, etc., it makes him a war criminal. This is why he is pushing this legislation like his life depends on it, because it does.

However, Bush & Co. knew the law before he ordered the torturing of prisoners. He knew he was in violation and he ordered the torture anyway. Prisoners have died due to his orders, which then opens him up to the death penalty.

Bush doesn't care about our troops, he cares about saving his own skin. Hence, this is why he wants this legislation, and the NSA legislation passed. These are impeachable offenses, and in violation of international law.

Don't be confused by any of this. Bush will put our troops at risk to save his own skin. He led us into an illegal war and put our troops at huge risk. America should honor the Geneva Convention AS IT STANDS NOW. Bush should honor the fact that he broke the law and he will have to answer to an international court of law, and so will all of those who followed his illegal orders.

[grazinggoat]

The United Nations Geneva Cnventions are strictly based on the nature of Human Beings. Not belonging to one camp or another. All humans are born free and shall stay free. All Humans are born Equal. Humans are born in sanctity. This sanctity is the base of the Geneva Convention. Once, you people, get to understand that, then you'll understand that each and every human is entitled to protection by the Geneva Convention on Prisonners of War. Stop interpreting your way of political orientation.

[ronniehm]

JANEM!! What are you doing? I was hoping they'd go another two years campaigning against Bush. They're making '08 easy. No plan and no idea that Bush won't be on the ballot. The "I'm not Bush" and "I don't need a plan" lines only work against Bush.

[ronniehm]

"What a coincidence that Republicans in the Senate would decide to do the right thing concerning this issue just 2 months before a national election."

I don't think this is a new position by Republicans in the Senate. The part about protecting interrogators from prosecution for violating the Geneva Conventions is all Bush, and I disagree with him on it. The Senate has never done the wrong thing concerning this issue.

[cdla2]

Dear Senator Hutchison,

The Bush Bush proposed legislation on the treatment and prosecution of suspected terrorists should be stopped.

I've just read the history of the Geneva conventions online. It is available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_convention.
The first Geneva convention for th treatment of wounded was adopted in 1864. The third Geneva convention relative
to the treatment of prisoners of war was first adopted in 1929 and later revised.

We should NOT subvert the intentions of the Geneva convention.

We were able to resolve Wold II Two without subverting the Geneva convention of 1929.

Is the Bush administration not smart enough to conduct operations without willfully ignoring the accepted Geneva conventions?

[book54552134]

What a coincidence that Republicans in the Senate would decide to do the right thing concerning this issue just 2 months before a national election. Better late than never, eh? When it comes to War Crimes, (including torture,) there is no gray area. There is right & there is wrong, period. Torture is universally accepted as a barbaric act upon human rights which is why all international treaties regarding the issue has designated the act as a War Crime. Those, who for whatever sick & sadistic reason, would support those who would initiate such barbaric crimes, are very pathetic individuals indeed. Those responsible for committing these crimes must be brought before the bar of justice.

[lukebize]

Posted by RonnieHM at 07:12 PM : Sep 14, 2006"

"tepidaccount, I don't know what you're disagreeing with me about. Forcing a deer to run into barbed wire would be torture. I already said I don't think we should torture people, so I'm clearly not talking about scaring prisoners into injuring themselves. I'm talking about cold rooms and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It works. It HAS worked. I believe you're looking for a disagreement where none exists."

My apologies for offending. Too many (not necessarily you) seem to underestimate the subjective effects of capture, imprisonment, isolation and any accompanying unofficial abuse.

By no means do I propose to make life comfortable for prisoners in possession of valuable information. I do demand that my government, acting in my name, discriminate well between the guilty and the innocent and that any action taken against the innocent be only by mistake.

[ronniehm]

tepidaccount, I don't know what you're disagreeing with me about. Forcing a deer to run into barbed wire would be torture. I already said I don't think we should torture people, so I'm clearly not talking about scaring prisoners into injuring themselves. I'm talking about cold rooms and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It works. It HAS worked. I believe you're looking for a disagreement where none exists.

[lukebize]

Posted by tepidaccount at 07:09 PM : Sep 14, 2006:

"On 3/9/06, ten days before the bombing of Baghdad begins"

Sorry, the date should read "3/9/03".

[lukebize]

Posted by hacksaw_6667 at 06:55 PM : Sep 14, 2006:

"As an ex-Vietnam veteran, I support the presidents decision and the troops."

Why should troops die for a lie, extracted by torture?

On 3/9/06, ten days before the bombing of Baghdad begins, on CBS's Face the Nation, Condoleeza Rice said,

"We know from a detainee there-- the head of training for al-Qaeda-- that they sought help in developing chemical and biological weapons because they weren't doing very well on their own. They sought it in Iraq. They received the help."

The detainee in question, one Al-Libi, had been doubted by American intelligence since February, 2002. *All* of his intel was obtained under torture, and in 2004, the CIA recalled all intelligence assessments based on his testimony.

This is just one example of the Bush Administration's use of cherry-picking information to lie us into a war.

The worst part is that our country may have tortured people to get bad information just so Bush and Cheney could have their little war.