Mideast Cease-Fire Fails Early Test

Shaky Truce Undermined By Israeli Demands And Lebanese Accusations

(CBS/AP)  The uneasy truce between Lebanon and Israel faced further erosion Sunday as leaders from both countries leveled threats and accusations a day after Israeli commandos raided Lebanon despite agreeing to a cease-fire agreement last week.

Lebanon's defense minister said he was certain Hezbollah would not break the cease-fire but warned rogue Palestinian groups of harsh measures and a traitor's fate if they incited Israeli retaliation by launching rockets into the Jewish state.

Also, Prime Minister Fuad Saniora, a Sunni Muslim, toured the devastated Hezbollah stronghold in Shiite south Beirut on Sunday and decried the destruction wrought by Israeli bombs as "crimes against humanity." Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri, a Shiite and Hezbollah backer, stood at the prime minister's side and said they spoke with one voice.

In Jerusalem, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he would name a panel to investigate government and military conduct of the conflict, in the face of criticism that authorities prosecuted a messy war with an unclear outcome and waffled over key decisions.

A day after Israel conducted a pre-dawn commando raid deep into the Bekaa Valley, prompting U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to declare the Israelis in violation of the Security Council cease-fire resolution, there were no reports of fresh incidents and the truce held into a seventh day.

Residents in the mountains east of Beirut, however, reported continued Israeli overflights. And the Lebanese army issued a statement accusing Israel of not abiding by the cease-fire because of the airspace violations, which were a prelude the Bekaa Valley commando raid.

Defense Minister Elias Murr's strong warning to rogue rocket teams indicated concern that Syrian-backed Palestinian militants might try to restart the fighting by drawing retaliation from Israel. He insisted Hezbollah would hold its fire.

"We consider that when the resistance (Hezbollah) is committed not to fire rockets, then any rocket that is fired from the Lebanese territory would be considered collaboration with Israel to provide a pretext (for Israel) to strike," he said.

In other developments:

About 30 members of Palestinian Journalists' Union gathered in Gaza City to protest the kidnappings of Fox News correspondent Steve Centanni and cameraman Olaf Wiig. The two were seized Monday near the Palestinian security services headquarters in Gaza City.

Israeli troops on Sunday detained a senior Hamas legislator, pushing forward with a crackdown on the Islamic militant group, Palestinian officials and relatives of the man said. Troops surrounded the home of Mahmoud al-Ramahi, secretary-general of the parliament, in broad daylight and detained him, said his sister, Yaqeen. Al-Ramahi had evaded arrest since Israel began its crackdown on Hamas officials following the June 25 abduction of an Israeli soldier by Hamas-linked militants in the Gaza Strip.

Forty-nine French peacekeepers came ashore Saturday at southern Lebanese coastal town of Naqoura, about 2 miles north of the border with Israel. About 200 more were expected next week. The French troops were the first contingent of what was to become a 15,000-strong international force to police the truce with an equal number of Lebanese soldiers. France already leads the U.N. force, known as UNIFIL, and had 200 soldiers in the country before today's fresh arrivals.

Israeli soldiers returning from the war in Lebanon are complaining they were hindered by short supplies, a lack of information, poor training and untested equipment.

The Lebanese army has deployed more than 1,500 troops in three sectors that Israeli forces have left, and the U.N. force — which currently numbers 2,000 — has set up checkpoints and started patrolling the areas.

Olmert has put his plans for a unilateral pullout from much of the West Bank on hold for now, but has not abandoned the idea altogether, a top Olmert aide said Friday, confirming a newspaper report. The Haaretz daily said Olmert told Cabinet ministers this week that in light of the Israel-Hezbollah war, the pullout was no longer his top priority.

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©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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See all 53 Comments

by rockvale1 August 19, 2006 7:52 AM PDT

How can the Lebanese Army disarm Hizbullah when
it is very clear that they are supporting this
terrist group.The IDF should have finished the job
in wiping out the Hizbullah instead of agreeing
to the ceasefire sponsored by ab inutile organizationm thr UN.

Reply to this comment

by somarmahmoud August 19, 2006 9:05 AM PDT

this incident demonstrate that Israel violates all its commitment to the international community.

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by grazinggoat August 19, 2006 9:33 AM PDT

Great IDF, Great. This is exactly what is needed NOW. This stupid team of managers on top of the IDF have proven incompetent, and they continue in the same pattern on Incompetency. Precisely Now. You need the Lebanese Resistance to kick your back again? and You Think the world will stand up for you? No Way...

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by tomflint69 August 19, 2006 10:05 AM PDT

IDF I don't know when you will learn! what was the need there to take a risk and have your 1 commando dead with 2 seriously injured? you have been miscalculating Hisbullah and paying the price by sacrificing your soldiers. It makes no difference to Hisbullah; how much their terrorists you may kill. Now international force will be there to eliminate Hisbullah. If you wanted to do the job by killing your soldiers, then why did you ask the international force to come? why you wana tell the world that you are altogether failed?

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by heardenuff August 19, 2006 12:18 PM PDT

OK

here's the facts - the west will NEVER be able to "spread" democracy to any of these regions... why, because with democracy comes "true" peace and the true desire for peace, and these savages have never and will never know peace, not one of these countries has even the smallest ammount of ability to EVER have peace with anyone (it's called muslimism) they have shown this FACT for more then a thousand years and will continue to show it for a thousand more, so..... let's push for natural fuels and lesser dependence on these idiots and leave these dumb ***'s alone to KILL them selves off, eventually dipstick next door willl get his bomb and undouptedly bomb his neighbor and vice versa and hopefully the wind will be blowing his direction as he does and he will in turn wipe out his entire country then if they each just take turns blowing each other up they will eventually be GONE and WE the rest of the peace loving world can finally live in peace......

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by grazinggoat August 19, 2006 2:28 PM PDT

Remind you Mr heardenuff, that the ones who destroyed and burnt 6 millions jews, were not arabs, not moslems. Those who killed the 25 000 000 to maybe 50,000,000 (READ IT WITH ME FIFTY MILLION) humans in Europe in the second world war were not moslems, nor arabs, nor iranians, nor Asians. They just were white catholics, orthodox, protestant,etc... CHRISTIANS. Those who persecuted forth and back the East, Africa, and South-America were not moslems. They were just fake Christians, looking into more controle and wealth stolen from colonized countries. The real christians are living now in Lebanon, and the middle east altogether with, and, supporting the Lebanese Resistance). You know why? Because Lebanon is a raw model of tolerance and co-existence with its 17 recognised religion and the multitude (hundred+) of political parties and social trends. And that is the result of 100's and hundreds years of good term neighbourship. So please don't **** the whole world off with your hatred and intolerence toward whatever doesn't wear a tie and suit with shiny shoes, with nothing inside the brain, or doesn't speak the southern texan accent. So tell me now who is the real savage Mr heardenuff?

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by terrilee2 August 19, 2006 4:31 PM PDT

I don't blame Israel at all. I do not trust the Resulution because it is to vauge. Hazbellah is suppose to disarm and they haven't and the release of the two Israel prisioners what happened to them???Hazabellah is a Terrorist and I don't trust Iran eirther.

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by agoodfriend3 August 19, 2006 4:56 PM PDT

I think , by this event , Israel showd that he is the real terrorist.he does not pay any attention to any low. he must be stopped by someone. I think lebanon will stop him.

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by emanualhyman August 19, 2006 5:05 PM PDT

Reply to ReturnToEden Israel has its land justly. The League of Nations and later U.N. mandated Britain and France to guide political self-determination of Jews, never wholly absent, and of Arab peoples, all formerly subjects of the defeated Ottoman Empire. LARGE Arab states of Syria, Iraq and Lebanon resulted, and the tiny region of Palestine with Gaza, earmarked for a Jewish state. The immense Arab block, unable to abide a tiny Jewish nation, invaded in 1948, capturing Gaza and the West Bank, which Israel liberated in the defensive wars of 1956 and 1967, and defended against the treacherous attack of Yom Kippur 1973. Descendents of Jews expelled, not by Europe but by Arab and other Moslem states, now number half of Israels population. An Arab Palestine Nation that never existed, and the so called occupation, are psycho warfare myths of the Arab aggressors. In contrast to Jordans eviction of Jews from the West Bank and desecration of Jewish holy places and graveyards, turned into latrines and with headstones used to pave roads, Israel has respected all worship and allowed access to holy places of all religions. Israel lives by right, and will fight to live. Through Oslo I and Oslo II and The Roadmap and painful exodus from Gaza Israel has given and given and given again, while Palestinians met none of their obligations. Israel lives, and defends itself, with justice.

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by sharncedar August 19, 2006 5:09 PM PDT

"The IDF should have finished the job"

A typical chickenhawk comment. The IDF was defeated soundly by Hezbollah. They, unlike dumb Texas-America, understood very quickly they weren't winning and withdrew. They weren't willing to take causulaties. Makes you kind of sick when you realize that Texas-America is still sacrificing our men in a lost cause in Iraq just to feed their ego. We take 3,000 dead and countless wounded for Isreal, and they don't want to take a few 100's of causualties when its their turn. I guess no one is as loyal and self-sacrificing as the American soldier.

I always used to wonder if a few of those ones who died in Vietnam had only lived, and some of today's chickenhawks had taken their place instead of avoiding the draft, who might be our leaders today. Maybe patriots instead of cowards. Maybe honorable soldiers instead of liars. Maybe instead of starting endless wars with other's children, we would be avoiding wars, or have the kind of leaders who take burdens on themselves instead of placing burdens on the public. Telling us to be calm and doing their job to protect us, like they did in 'Nam and died for it, rather than telling us to be afraid, very afraid, while they laugh and play on their luxury ranches. We lost our best and brightest in Vietnam, and we kept our cowardly knaves. We've been paying for this unequal trade for 30 years.

Who did we lose today in Iraq?

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by returntoeden August 19, 2006 5:58 PM PDT

Reply to emanualhyman:
If the United States would stop shipping the latest war machines and weapons to Israel, they would be gone in the blink of an eye. But of course, we cannot do that because the U.S. has been commandeered by the Neo Cons and the CEO's of large American corporations who are dedicated to the continued survival of the Zionist state....at any cost.

We are facing WW-III, while carrying out illegal invasions of sovereign nations and overthrowing their governments, in the name of Good against Evil. The only evil that exists in this world is in the minds of holier than thou politicians employing Cowboy diplomacy. Is that "tiny" nation worth entering WW-III for. Absolutely NOT!

No one has the right to invade and subjugate a people simply because their ideology conflicts with theirs. While I am not a traditional religious person, I pray for the day that the Creator puts a end to these crimes against the human race.

Irregardless of how terrible or different a culture maybe from our own, we have no right whatsoever to interfere.

We will answer from our crimes and we will do so with our Immortal Souls.

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by Carwy August 19, 2006 6:17 PM PDT

Under the UN treaty Hezbollah was to disarm. This did not happen. So all I have to say is the good old USA needs to ship anything and everything to the IDF to make this happen.

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by rightisright August 19, 2006 6:19 PM PDT

Until 75 years ago, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. were barely out of the stone age. If it were not for thier abundance of oil, they would still be riding camels and eating sand. Israel, with the assistance of the rest of the civilized world, should move all of Its people off the land, turning it all over to Palestine. After this is done, Nuke the entire region into a sheet of glass, then give it back to Israel.

P.S. ReturntToEden... Sigh... Irregardless is not a word.

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by grazinggoat August 19, 2006 6:30 PM PDT

reply to emanualhyman:
One can be silly enough to distort the genral view of reality. 'By Way of Deception' is the title of a book written by a former Mossad/IDF thing. He decided to write what his heart suggested to asy. U still say it's justly earned land. So be it if it were true. Look at the eloquent number of violations of rules and attacks on other lands the Zionist state has done since only decembre 2005.

Zionist State is known for its rich history of violation of UN resolutions, let the numbers speak.

Checking periodical reports submitted to the Secretary-General and the General, the Permanent Mission of Lebanon to the United Nations reported 529 %u201Cviolations of Lebanese sovereignty committed by Zionist State%u201D for the period between December 1, 2005, and May 31, 2006:

- December, 2005: 96 violations reported
- January, 2006: 61 violations reported
- February, 2006: 72 violations reported
- March, 2006: 110 violations reported
- April, 2006: 51 violations reported
- May, 2006: 139 violations reported

So can you still pretend a just Land. It's only what you wish it were.

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by Carwy August 19, 2006 6:37 PM PDT

Out of all those time how many of them where they attacked first?
All of them. I'm tired of you people thinking you can do no wrong. You are human and not god like people. Islam is not the only religion in the world, however it is the only one that talks about holy war and killing off all other religions. I think you are all a bunch of fanatics that need to crawl back in your caves and stay there. This will make the world a better place.

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by heardenuff August 19, 2006 6:38 PM PDT

LIKE I said Savages..... THOUSANDS of years they have been fighting and killing each other for whatever resaons they moght have and thousands more they shall continue to.....

good luck - hopefully the wind will be heading the right direction upon detonation.....

GO NATURAL FUELS!!!!!!!!! - down with oil...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/18/earlyshow/main1910319.shtml

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by returntoeden August 19, 2006 6:48 PM PDT

To Rightisright:
You would be right at home on The Texas Ranch. Your ignorance is appalling.

Have you ever been to Baghdad or any place beyond Waco? Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Ethiopia and other Middle-Eastern and African countries are the cradle of civilization.

Their engineering, scientific and mathematical contributions from thousands of years ago, still astounds the so called civilized world.

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by ironflag1515 August 19, 2006 6:52 PM PDT

It's sad to say but tranquility in the Middle East is virtually impossible. As with previous years, Hezbollah and Israel are just two more enemies in an area in the world where hostilities run high and peace is unforeseeable. Iraq is on the quivering edge of political collapse from the threat of sectarian-minded terrorists and revolutionaries. Iran openly resents the very existence of Israel as a nation and America, in the eyes of most middle eastern nations, is a zealous enemy to the non-western world. While the ratification of a U.N. mandated cease-fire resolution may occur, utter peace, in an area where animosity thrives, is a false hope. This threat to peace is a testament of this militaristic instability.

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by grazinggoat August 19, 2006 6:55 PM PDT

Another reply to emanualhyman
In your comment saying jews being expelled from the arab countries. Let's rectify this pretension: Morroco being an arab country, its jewish community is flourishing, and living well. One can say, they are in the governing class and over-represented despite their small number in the population. Same situation in Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon... This is the case in EVERY arab country. Maybe you don't know, but there are still Jews in IRAQ and IRAN, pretty well respected, I'd say and they don't want to leave...
Zionism was the major cause that brought Jews out of Arab countries and heading in Israel. NOT EXPELLED. NO arab countries expelled them, No arab countries KILLED 6,000,000 of them. Please stop distorting facts.

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by ronniehm August 19, 2006 7:30 PM PDT

When Israel dropped leaflets to warn civilians to get out of harm's way, I stopped wondering who the good guys were. That's not the act of a savage society.

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by grazinggoat August 19, 2006 8:17 PM PDT

Not to disappoint you RonnieHM, but it's a war duty of every part in a conflict to advise the others' civilians that they are going to undergo a bombardment or whatever harming act to be done. So Civilians can hide and protect themselves... The Lebanese resistance not having and most probably not wanting to invade the Zionist air space (anyway they had not the chopers or fighterjets Israeli have), the Lebanese resistance had aired on TV. Before targetting Haifa for example, Hiz-ball-ah made the threat clear for Israeli population and Civil Protection in Izrael to put the civilian population in underground shelters... The essential of all acts are the results. Izrael has broken the UN civilian and collective punishment rules, by breaking the infrastructure of Lebanon and making over 900 pure civilians (QanaII and others), but also led to the contamination of about 100 miles of beautiful Lebanese Mediterranean Beaches, after the non-savage and civilized Israeli jets bombarded power generating central close to the Waterfront. Not only killing civilians workers but also inflicting a longterm damage on the flora and fauna of that spot of the world for decades to come. I'd not be proud israeli nowaday. I'd rather be ashamed of what the bunch of Israeli incompetent managers inspired by the less competent US administration.

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by ronniehm August 19, 2006 11:05 PM PDT

Why do people say "not to disappoint you" when they intend to disappoint you? Well, not to disappoint you, but did Hezbollah even hit anything non-civilian? A mailbox? A donut shop? Anything? And how do you give warnings to civilians when you yourself have no idea what you're hitting? What did they take -- about 200 shots at those fuel tanks? The only reason Hezbollah didn't contaminate Israeli beaches is that they missed.

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by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 12:03 AM PDT

Then I'm happy, RonnieHM you're disappointed and stay that way all your life. The best hitting targets (unfortunately to those who died, and their relatives) were the 100's some or some 100's military casualties hardly recognized by IDF. For the first time IDF gets hit more than its foes in a military confrotation. And that is quite regrettable for the parents of young kids gone to the front, or their young families if married. We're not here to discuss Y that started. I'm saying mismanagement and the Bully attitude the Zionist State has always taken toward its neighbors: Everything can be solved by force, are the main responsible of what happened.
The best way to solve this problem, is to sit and negotiate. Give justice a way to settle the problem with the Palestinian authority and the palestinian newly democratically ELECTED government, without labelling them as terrorists and acting upon them accordingly (Jimmy Carter was an observer in the election Process). Give the road map a chance without negating it every five days, and building walls of shame.
Force and Power are the weapons of the past. Things have changed in the Middle-East, the distribution of Power has shifted toward a more radical regimes, because of the intransigence of Israeli Adminstrations and their Bully attitude.
I'm sure this day will come soon. It only needed an first show of resolve in front of Israel. Hezballah just did it.

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by ronniehm August 20, 2006 1:00 AM PDT

You want me to be disappointed for the rest of my life because I don't agree with you? No wonder I don't understand your position. I don't hate you.

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by carlylaine August 20, 2006 1:14 AM PDT

carwy...I love it when we aren't afraid of them or of the truth. Glad you wrote what you wrote.

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by carlylaine August 20, 2006 3:11 AM PDT

ReturnToEden:

It doesn't matter if we've never lived in the Middle East. There are other ways of learning other than being there. What a stupid argument that is. Shall I become a drug addict so I can KNOW what it is like to stick a needle in my arm or live with holes in my arms? NUTS!!?

Who would want to live in the Mid East hell hole just to find out what we already know that arabs are vindictive, hateful and mean? I care not for the Middle Eastern countries at all-except for Israel.

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by carlylaine August 20, 2006 3:11 AM PDT

ReturnToEden:

It doesn't matter if we've never lived in the Middle East. There are other ways of learning other than being there. What a stupid argument that is. Shall I become a drug addict so I can KNOW what it is like to stick a needle in my arm or live with holes in my arms? NUTS!!?

Who would want to live in the Mid East hell hole just to find out what we already know that arabs are vindictive, hateful and mean? I care not for the Middle Eastern countries at all-except for Israel.

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by carlylaine August 20, 2006 3:30 AM PDT

RonnieHM

YOU GO!

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by zeta22-2009 August 20, 2006 5:50 AM PDT

I can't decide what to admire more: The stubborn stupidity of some auto proclaimed defenders of islamic fanaticism or the naivete of some when arguing those extremists' actions.
Let me be clear. I don't think that all muslims (not even a very substantial percentage of them) are extremist or fanatical. Far from that. I know the vast majority are decent people who care for their own and their families well being, thru hard and honest work, like anyone else in the world. Just look at the scenes in the streets of Bagdad... The problem is, the small minority of fanatics are, by their own nature, quite noisy and brutal.
It's a shame that a substantial part of the media seems to be willing to "sell" their message without much regard for the factual truth.
Case in point: It's obvious and logical to anyone, with no need to be in Lebanon, that Israel (or any other democratic nation) would very much prefer live in peace rather than at war. If Israel has anything good is their intelligence services. And it doesn't take a genious to realize that this last raid to the norwest of Beirut could only have been to intercept yet another shipment of arms and ammunition from Syria/Iran.
(To be continued)

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by zeta22-2009 August 20, 2006 5:50 AM PDT

(Continued)
Now, to claim this action as a flagrant violation of the cease-fire agreement, when the same agreement was never fully accepted by the Lebanese government and by the hezbolah who, in the first place, refused to disarm this terrorist movement (it would suffice, as they declared, that they would not exhibit their guns in public, can you imagine? Well, these were not the terms of the resolution!) and when the UN force is taking forever to assemble and take over the space left by the IDF, what the hack are we talking about?
Attitudes like these just reinforce in many people's minds the idea that the UN cannot or will not provide viable solutions and that nations will be forced to take upon their hands to defend themselves and their interests against a growing hysteria of extremist fanaticism covered, in part, by a very politically correct media, incapable of putting out factual and unbiased information, no matter who likes it or dislikes it.
It's just sad.

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by jms_cheung August 20, 2006 7:48 AM PDT

I believe the Israelis Army has done the right thing to prevent Hisbollah from RE-ARMING themselves to bombard Israel's cities -- thus it cannot be construed as a violation of UN ceasefire. It is the prerogative and rights of Israel to go into Lebannon ANYTIME in the future to destroy the weapons caches & terrorist-masterminds of the Hisbollah whose terrorism is sponsored by Iran & Syria. As long as Hisbollah is not de-militarised, Israel will continue to have this right to pre-emptive the terrorist plots of the Hisbollah.

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by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 9:28 AM PDT

You have to question, as the war has now drawn to a conclusion whether or not it was worth invading it in the first place, and if the Israeli PM is now content with the outcome of the war, given that his rating have suffered. Had he been told that his army were going to fight hizbollah, fail to disarm them, fail to secure the release of the kidnapped soldiers, fail to get their tv station off air, spark worldwide protests as far as the Phillipines, and make them even more popular then they were with a good chance that they may eventually take over Lebanon...You have to question would he have done it? And of course i missed out what maybe less significant in their eyes, displaced millions, injured thousands, and killled just over a thousand civillians.

Either which way, yes, it is by no means a bad thing to fight terrorism, but what our government and media had hoped was that Hizbollah would be viewed in the same league as Al Qaida, which consquently it didn't. This was a PR disaster. Not only that but the majority of the world, especially if you watch other news networks such as the BBC, will tell you that the way in which we and the Isrealis conducted ourselves has created us more enemies than we in the first place. It is undeniably this sort of conduct that hampers our progress n the War on Terror. It is this sort of foreign policy that makes the terrorist's recruitment even easier.

No-one likes them, but we played right into their hands on this one.

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by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 9:38 AM PDT

Furthermore, I hear the Israeli soldiers have expressed their disatisfaction at the way the war was handled, the reservists in particular claimed their training was very limited, that there were people fighting who hadn't thrown a grenade in 15 years, that water supplies were pitiful to the extent they had to drink from a Hizbollah canteen. They said communications were very poor, and occasionally their was fire exchanged amongst themselves on the presumtion that they were facing Israeli disguised Hizbollah guerillas.

Olmert has not emeged from this in the way in which he had hoped. People now hope at if Israel is dragged into another war that he will not be at the helm, and rightfully so.

This war was a disgrace, they even managed to have a statement released by Kofi Annan claimin that they had intentionally attacked a UN base.What a complete and utter shambles. With a reputation of a strong and professional millitary that in 6 days managed o defeat both Syria and Egypt, could not conclude a victory in 30days, and were politically forced into a ceasefire. With the outcomes as truly dismal as they are, why is it that people are bewildered as to why the terrorists are claiming a istric victory. Sure if you look at it from an Isael versus Lebanon perspective, that is one thing, but Israel versus Hizbollah is quite another. Dont put yourself under any illusions, a ceasefire is not a comprehensive victory.

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by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 9:56 AM PDT

Continued
Unless you don't care about the law of International Bodies such as Uited Nations, which seems to be the case, and then why The Lebanese Resistence would care to, since it has no value for Israel. So face to face and the belligerents fight again and see who wins. Zionists have just tasted the will and resolute of the lebanese resistence. They (zionists) are now stealing and abducting people belonging to Lebanese resistence in order to exchange them. That is agood sign of frightness and cowardise of the most powerful army in the middle east.

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by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 9:57 AM PDT

What a licking stand from you RonnieMH, CarlyLaine, Zeta22 and cheung. At first, the attack on Lebanon was never decided by the incompetent Israeli Administration, specially not the turtle face Olmert. It was pushed by the intransigent and incompetent bully monkeyface-GWB administration. Nothing to be proud of at all. Human history taught us the stubborn-aggressive standing never leads to successful survival. You all don't even want to consider arguments that Israel has inflicted to Lebanon and its population what the UNITED NATIONS, calls CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, and condemn it. Just cannot believe that you are defending a criminal state. And you want the Lebanese resistence to disarm and that CRIMINAL OF WAR to continue its abject acts upon Lebanese Civilian population. U are either Zionists or simply out of your mind. It's like U are willing to let the JonBenet suspect-killer, be in presence of another girl in one hotel room, alone. Imagine what would happen... With the Qana2 massacre done to civilians hiding in a shelter, still fresh in mind, you should at least say enough is enough. (see continued)

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by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 10:13 AM PDT

Grazingoat leave them to their views,

The truth is most jews I know, would go so far as to support Israel were it to launch a pre-emptive strike on Malawi, if there was a suspicion it harboured terrorists.That is the truth of the matter. They harbour the view that Israel is the holy land, so if it were to attack the White house, it would be justified. They fail to comprehend that just because a government is fighting, it is justified. How more nonsensical can you get. Soon it will dawn on people that a terrorism is the destruction and killing of innocent civillains and their infrastructure. Just because all of a sudden you are democratically elected, it doesnt give you license to do that.

Arabs are victims of poor governance that fails to address their problems, that fail to stand up to monster states, and hence these people take matters into their own hands. They are seen as vigilantes.

If you think this war was the correct decision read my preious two comments, id be interested in a response. Its strange, I am a jew, though im not religious what i stand for is a just and moral. When i do not see it i say it. People are probably going o brand me a supporter of terrorism now, and i say to them in advance:YOU ARE IN DENIAL

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by ronniehm August 20, 2006 11:00 AM PDT

reuben, the real truth is most Muslims hate non-Muslims. They have for centuries, so to analyze this conflict based on who did what last week is a little silly. As for the grand efforts of the almighty UN, they just make one resolution after another that does nothing but acknowledge the failure of the last resolution. This so-called cease fire between Israel and a government that has no control over what's happening in Lebanon was absurd. If the agreement isn't between the two warring parties, what's the point? Then, to guarantee its failure, the UN didn't even put one single soldier into Lebanon to assure compliance. They left Israel standing around to watch weapon shipments being delivered to a group that was supposedly disarmed from the previous resolution. Now I assume that the UN would have prevented arms from reaching Hezbollah if any of those 400 (sigh) French solders had bothered to show up. And I suspect France would have been in compliance with the cease fire for doing exactly what Israel did. Hypocrites.

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by ronniehm August 20, 2006 11:17 AM PDT

goat, unless your side is in compliance with every single UN resolution (or even just the last two), don't bother quoting the UN as an authority. I don't.

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by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 12:14 PM PDT

...Continued,
If humans came to a comprehensive undertanding of each's needs, then there is no war (Which has been done by writing the United Nations charter of rights. I consider this is a God Revelation, at the exception of not having the sacred stamp we find in the old Holy Books). If Prophets and old-time Kings were alive, they would like this kind of charters and they'd certainly rectify their old versions. They would qualify it of innovative and profitable to humans, so they'd stamp ((DEVINE)) on it... Proof to this is the relative growth stability of the total population of the earth. It increased from hardly two billion in the 1950's to the actual 6 billions + in less than two generations. That is quite an acheivement.

I also include the link to the page of United Nations related to the protection of civilian persons in time of war.

http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/civilianpersons.htm
It's rather fantastic. Everybody should read it and stick to it. I'd rather say that it should apply to in time of peace into some countries that don't provide the minimum to their subjects.

So peace on everybody, creatures of the God, now tomorrow and for ever... amen

Reply to this comment

by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 12:15 PM PDT

Please calm the game here. The UN is an assembly of the peoples of the Earth. The one and only we have and on which we all humans, goim or gentiles or whatever you want altogether with the animals, live and share. (By the way I don't digest this auto-labelling of being the best between humans and the rest are less than nothing. This leads to apartheid, and exclusions). The critics about what is written in this kind of writings (holy books) has been remedied to with the creation of the United Nations which gave rights to all humans on the same base. I here let you have a look at it.

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/043/88/IMG/NR004388.pdf?OpenElement

It eliminates such pogroms in the name of difference, and it gives the right to all humans, (which are the CREATION OF THE CREATOR, pleases to some extreme semites or extreme Neo-Cons, or not...) because it grants the garantees to all with no distinction of religion, ***, color or minority origin. So there is something weird into auto-labelling best of the best... It's what Sigmund Freund called the Paranoia. Everybody wants to kill me and I'm a victim, so please help me. (please read continued...)

Reply to this comment

by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 1:42 PM PDT

I don't know why Ronnie is slating the UN, afterall if there is any nation that has made the UN a laughing stock it is Israel. Why are you talking about UN resolutions Ronnie, let me give you a fact, there is no nation on God's green earth that has failed to comply with UN resolution more than Israel, its just that the US has stood by to veto any chapter 7s. Why criticise the UN when Israel is the cheif non-compliant nation?

What you said in your little message was interesting, you mentioned 2 warring parties, this is how most people viewed the war(equally). Hence anyone who stood by and watching the US deliver weapons, has every right to watch Hizbollah recieve weapons.

Cont..

Reply to this comment

by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 1:43 PM PDT

cont...

Then you go one step further, you really hit the epitomy of stupidy, i mean you really reach the summit. Most muslims hate non-muslims?? If i was to say most jews hate non-jews, you would scream anti-semitism at me.You are an islamophobe. Actually muslims have a population of 1.5 billion people worldwide, a very very small minority are terrorists, their religion condemns the killing of the innocent. Most of them, and this is the enlightening bit for you, so listen carefully, perhaps read over once more, to make sure this really hits home for you, most muslims love their families, work to earn for them and sincerely care for their well-being. You are either a radical jew, or anotther one of those ignorant folk who feel the outskirts of Nebraska need to be protected from terrorism. I truly feel sorry for people as ignorant as you going by some of the absurdities that have travelled from your brain to you fingertips and managed to pollute

Reply to this comment

by ronniehm August 20, 2006 2:04 PM PDT

Wow, you really have contempt for people who don't agree with you. It's hard to believe your attitude hasn't brought peace and harmony to the Muslim world yet.

Reply to this comment

by ronniehm August 20, 2006 2:28 PM PDT

P.S. If by Islamophobe, you mean someone who's scared of Islam, then yes, I guess I'm one.

Reply to this comment

by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 2:38 PM PDT

no i have contempt for stupidity...shame that that is all you could come up with...a measly 2 lines. your almost as pathetic as your views, though i dont want to embarass you further, before you get the impression that i am mad...which i very truly am not..let me re-iterate..i feel sorry for you..

Reply to this comment

by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 2:41 PM PDT

if intellect isnt one of your stronger traits..at least you can console yourself that honesty is..i think i have said enough now..take care

Reply to this comment

by ronniehm August 20, 2006 3:51 PM PDT

I'm comfortable knowing that civility is one of my stronger traits. No matter how many times you call me stupid and ignorant, I'll have no contempt for you.

Reply to this comment

by reuben110-2009 August 20, 2006 3:54 PM PDT

There is a lot of confusion about terrorism particularly in our country. As well as there being some very appropriate fears that the scum of the earth will try profusely to kill civillains, there are legitimate fears among the population of middle-eastern countries that in favt our troops will come and invade and kill their loved ones.

No one talks about the IRA, or ETA, no one talks about the Israeli who killed Palestinian workers with a mindless gun rampage after the pullout of Gaza. Perhaps we should use him as an example. Perhaps people ought to recognize that he felt powerless, weak, and insufficient as his Government did not protect his interests, and the interests of his nation. It isnt wrong for middle-eastern muslims to feel the same way, a lot of them ought to feel that way. Al Qaeda is the scum of the earth in my opinion there is no lower being then those who are members or supporters.

At the same time however to put Hizbollah into this category is nonsensical. Perhaps people ought to look at it from another perspective, if you were lebanese, and it was your loved ones and neighbours that were dieing, would you be moderate? would you back Israel? Not a chance and rightly so.

People must realise,that all of a sudden if you are elected, it doesnt mean that if you bomb schools and hospitals and deny aid that you have moral high ground.

But I will say something in favour of the Israelis, at least they rape less and don't run prisons like Abu-Ghuraib!

Reply to this comment

by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 9:14 PM PDT

(...Continued)
What has been forgotten in the successive revelations is the nature and the environment. It seems that GOD has kind of forgotten or did HE do it on purpose. HE forgot to tell about the natural selection as a way of improving the creation. Albert Einstein who said time is relative and for someone who is out of the time is eternal. Since GOD created the time, He who is Eternal, can SEE the future and present and the past at the same moment. So what we humans see as past-present and future are in fact the same moment for the Creator. He can see how one looks like when young, teen, adult, elderly and why not dead, and why not after death... the soul...

Where in the holy books is said that The Creator has not chosen the natural selection His way of making humans good and better, more beautiful, more intelligent, (some more stubborn!).
Peace on yall and on every creature on earth, amen

Reply to this comment

by grazinggoat August 20, 2006 9:15 PM PDT

Remind you Mr RonnieHM, that the ones who killed and burnt 6 millions jews, were not arabs, not moslems. Those who killed the 25 000 000 to 50,000,000 (READ WITH ME FIFTY MILLION) humans in Europe in the second world war were not moslems. You know who they were, and still are. But they were not moslems. So please don't **** the whole world off with your hatred and intolerence toward whoever doesn't eat Kosher or doesn't stand in salute in front of the US flag/ Star of David.

By the way I'm not an Islamic expert, but I heard that Fundamental Islam is the naturel son of Fanatical Christianism and son of Fanatical Judaism. Seems that the Judaism is still closer to Isalm than Christianity. Some told me the five daily prayers in Islam and Judaism, the women in both religions who cover with scarves, the guys who get slicked when circumcised (Outch), the same Prophets and Kings, same books, no food but Halal or Kosher, no alcohol, no Pork... They say Islam is a softer version of Judaism. Is that true...? Because maybe they say Islam gave females the right of Ownership and the right to worship, whereas untill recently in the western hemisphere, they were still wondering if the female had a soul... the rest are details.

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[rockvale1]

How can the Lebanese Army disarm Hizbullah when
it is very clear that they are supporting this
terrist group.The IDF should have finished the job
in wiping out the Hizbullah instead of agreeing
to the ceasefire sponsored by ab inutile organizationm thr UN.

[somarmahmoud]

this incident demonstrate that Israel violates all its commitment to the international community.

[grazinggoat]

Great IDF, Great. This is exactly what is needed NOW. This stupid team of managers on top of the IDF have proven incompetent, and they continue in the same pattern on Incompetency. Precisely Now. You need the Lebanese Resistance to kick your back again? and You Think the world will stand up for you? No Way...

[tomflint69]

IDF I don't know when you will learn! what was the need there to take a risk and have your 1 commando dead with 2 seriously injured? you have been miscalculating Hisbullah and paying the price by sacrificing your soldiers. It makes no difference to Hisbullah; how much their terrorists you may kill. Now international force will be there to eliminate Hisbullah. If you wanted to do the job by killing your soldiers, then why did you ask the international force to come? why you wana tell the world that you are altogether failed?

[heardenuff]

OK

here's the facts - the west will NEVER be able to "spread" democracy to any of these regions... why, because with democracy comes "true" peace and the true desire for peace, and these savages have never and will never know peace, not one of these countries has even the smallest ammount of ability to EVER have peace with anyone (it's called muslimism) they have shown this FACT for more then a thousand years and will continue to show it for a thousand more, so..... let's push for natural fuels and lesser dependence on these idiots and leave these dumb ***'s alone to KILL them selves off, eventually dipstick next door willl get his bomb and undouptedly bomb his neighbor and vice versa and hopefully the wind will be blowing his direction as he does and he will in turn wipe out his entire country then if they each just take turns blowing each other up they will eventually be GONE and WE the rest of the peace loving world can finally live in peace......

[grazinggoat]

Remind you Mr heardenuff, that the ones who destroyed and burnt 6 millions jews, were not arabs, not moslems. Those who killed the 25 000 000 to maybe 50,000,000 (READ IT WITH ME FIFTY MILLION) humans in Europe in the second world war were not moslems, nor arabs, nor iranians, nor Asians. They just were white catholics, orthodox, protestant,etc... CHRISTIANS. Those who persecuted forth and back the East, Africa, and South-America were not moslems. They were just fake Christians, looking into more controle and wealth stolen from colonized countries. The real christians are living now in Lebanon, and the middle east altogether with, and, supporting the Lebanese Resistance). You know why? Because Lebanon is a raw model of tolerance and co-existence with its 17 recognised religion and the multitude (hundred+) of political parties and social trends. And that is the result of 100's and hundreds years of good term neighbourship. So please don't **** the whole world off with your hatred and intolerence toward whatever doesn't wear a tie and suit with shiny shoes, with nothing inside the brain, or doesn't speak the southern texan accent. So tell me now who is the real savage Mr heardenuff?

[terrilee2]

I don't blame Israel at all. I do not trust the Resulution because it is to vauge. Hazbellah is suppose to disarm and they haven't and the release of the two Israel prisioners what happened to them???Hazabellah is a Terrorist and I don't trust Iran eirther.

[agoodfriend3]

I think , by this event , Israel showd that he is the real terrorist.he does not pay any attention to any low. he must be stopped by someone. I think lebanon will stop him.

[emanualhyman]

Reply to ReturnToEden Israel has its land justly. The League of Nations and later U.N. mandated Britain and France to guide political self-determination of Jews, never wholly absent, and of Arab peoples, all formerly subjects of the defeated Ottoman Empire. LARGE Arab states of Syria, Iraq and Lebanon resulted, and the tiny region of Palestine with Gaza, earmarked for a Jewish state. The immense Arab block, unable to abide a tiny Jewish nation, invaded in 1948, capturing Gaza and the West Bank, which Israel liberated in the defensive wars of 1956 and 1967, and defended against the treacherous attack of Yom Kippur 1973. Descendents of Jews expelled, not by Europe but by Arab and other Moslem states, now number half of Israels population. An Arab Palestine Nation that never existed, and the so called occupation, are psycho warfare myths of the Arab aggressors. In contrast to Jordans eviction of Jews from the West Bank and desecration of Jewish holy places and graveyards, turned into latrines and with headstones used to pave roads, Israel has respected all worship and allowed access to holy places of all religions. Israel lives by right, and will fight to live. Through Oslo I and Oslo II and The Roadmap and painful exodus from Gaza Israel has given and given and given again, while Palestinians met none of their obligations. Israel lives, and defends itself, with justice.

[sharncedar]

"The IDF should have finished the job"

A typical chickenhawk comment. The IDF was defeated soundly by Hezbollah. They, unlike dumb Texas-America, understood very quickly they weren't winning and withdrew. They weren't willing to take causulaties. Makes you kind of sick when you realize that Texas-America is still sacrificing our men in a lost cause in Iraq just to feed their ego. We take 3,000 dead and countless wounded for Isreal, and they don't want to take a few 100's of causualties when its their turn. I guess no one is as loyal and self-sacrificing as the American soldier.

I always used to wonder if a few of those ones who died in Vietnam had only lived, and some of today's chickenhawks had taken their place instead of avoiding the draft, who might be our leaders today. Maybe patriots instead of cowards. Maybe honorable soldiers instead of liars. Maybe instead of starting endless wars with other's children, we would be avoiding wars, or have the kind of leaders who take burdens on themselves instead of placing burdens on the public. Telling us to be calm and doing their job to protect us, like they did in 'Nam and died for it, rather than telling us to be afraid, very afraid, while they laugh and play on their luxury ranches. We lost our best and brightest in Vietnam, and we kept our cowardly knaves. We've been paying for this unequal trade for 30 years.

Who did we lose today in Iraq?

[returntoeden]

Reply to emanualhyman:
If the United States would stop shipping the latest war machines and weapons to Israel, they would be gone in the blink of an eye. But of course, we cannot do that because the U.S. has been commandeered by the Neo Cons and the CEO's of large American corporations who are dedicated to the continued survival of the Zionist state....at any cost.

We are facing WW-III, while carrying out illegal invasions of sovereign nations and overthrowing their governments, in the name of Good against Evil. The only evil that exists in this world is in the minds of holier than thou politicians employing Cowboy diplomacy. Is that "tiny" nation worth entering WW-III for. Absolutely NOT!

No one has the right to invade and subjugate a people simply because their ideology conflicts with theirs. While I am not a traditional religious person, I pray for the day that the Creator puts a end to these crimes against the human race.

Irregardless of how terrible or different a culture maybe from our own, we have no right whatsoever to interfere.

We will answer from our crimes and we will do so with our Immortal Souls.

[Carwy]

Under the UN treaty Hezbollah was to disarm. This did not happen. So all I have to say is the good old USA needs to ship anything and everything to the IDF to make this happen.

[rightisright]

Until 75 years ago, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. were barely out of the stone age. If it were not for thier abundance of oil, they would still be riding camels and eating sand. Israel, with the assistance of the rest of the civilized world, should move all of Its people off the land, turning it all over to Palestine. After this is done, Nuke the entire region into a sheet of glass, then give it back to Israel.

P.S. ReturntToEden... Sigh... Irregardless is not a word.

[grazinggoat]

reply to emanualhyman:
One can be silly enough to distort the genral view of reality. 'By Way of Deception' is the title of a book written by a former Mossad/IDF thing. He decided to write what his heart suggested to asy. U still say it's justly earned land. So be it if it were true. Look at the eloquent number of violations of rules and attacks on other lands the Zionist state has done since only decembre 2005.

Zionist State is known for its rich history of violation of UN resolutions, let the numbers speak.

Checking periodical reports submitted to the Secretary-General and the General, the Permanent Mission of Lebanon to the United Nations reported 529 %u201Cviolations of Lebanese sovereignty committed by Zionist State%u201D for the period between December 1, 2005, and May 31, 2006:

- December, 2005: 96 violations reported
- January, 2006: 61 violations reported
- February, 2006: 72 violations reported
- March, 2006: 110 violations reported
- April, 2006: 51 violations reported
- May, 2006: 139 violations reported

So can you still pretend a just Land. It's only what you wish it were.

[Carwy]

Out of all those time how many of them where they attacked first?
All of them. I'm tired of you people thinking you can do no wrong. You are human and not god like people. Islam is not the only religion in the world, however it is the only one that talks about holy war and killing off all other religions. I think you are all a bunch of fanatics that need to crawl back in your caves and stay there. This will make the world a better place.

[heardenuff]

LIKE I said Savages..... THOUSANDS of years they have been fighting and killing each other for whatever resaons they moght have and thousands more they shall continue to.....

good luck - hopefully the wind will be heading the right direction upon detonation.....

GO NATURAL FUELS!!!!!!!!! - down with oil...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/18/earlyshow/main1910319.shtml

[returntoeden]

To Rightisright:
You would be right at home on The Texas Ranch. Your ignorance is appalling.

Have you ever been to Baghdad or any place beyond Waco? Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Ethiopia and other Middle-Eastern and African countries are the cradle of civilization.

Their engineering, scientific and mathematical contributions from thousands of years ago, still astounds the so called civilized world.

[ironflag1515]

It's sad to say but tranquility in the Middle East is virtually impossible. As with previous years, Hezbollah and Israel are just two more enemies in an area in the world where hostilities run high and peace is unforeseeable. Iraq is on the quivering edge of political collapse from the threat of sectarian-minded terrorists and revolutionaries. Iran openly resents the very existence of Israel as a nation and America, in the eyes of most middle eastern nations, is a zealous enemy to the non-western world. While the ratification of a U.N. mandated cease-fire resolution may occur, utter peace, in an area where animosity thrives, is a false hope. This threat to peace is a testament of this militaristic instability.

[grazinggoat]

Another reply to emanualhyman
In your comment saying jews being expelled from the arab countries. Let's rectify this pretension: Morroco being an arab country, its jewish community is flourishing, and living well. One can say, they are in the governing class and over-represented despite their small number in the population. Same situation in Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon... This is the case in EVERY arab country. Maybe you don't know, but there are still Jews in IRAQ and IRAN, pretty well respected, I'd say and they don't want to leave...
Zionism was the major cause that brought Jews out of Arab countries and heading in Israel. NOT EXPELLED. NO arab countries expelled them, No arab countries KILLED 6,000,000 of them. Please stop distorting facts.

[ronniehm]

When Israel dropped leaflets to warn civilians to get out of harm's way, I stopped wondering who the good guys were. That's not the act of a savage society.

[grazinggoat]

Not to disappoint you RonnieHM, but it's a war duty of every part in a conflict to advise the others' civilians that they are going to undergo a bombardment or whatever harming act to be done. So Civilians can hide and protect themselves... The Lebanese resistance not having and most probably not wanting to invade the Zionist air space (anyway they had not the chopers or fighterjets Israeli have), the Lebanese resistance had aired on TV. Before targetting Haifa for example, Hiz-ball-ah made the threat clear for Israeli population and Civil Protection in Izrael to put the civilian population in underground shelters... The essential of all acts are the results. Izrael has broken the UN civilian and collective punishment rules, by breaking the infrastructure of Lebanon and making over 900 pure civilians (QanaII and others), but also led to the contamination of about 100 miles of beautiful Lebanese Mediterranean Beaches, after the non-savage and civilized Israeli jets bombarded power generating central close to the Waterfront. Not only killing civilians workers but also inflicting a longterm damage on the flora and fauna of that spot of the world for decades to come. I'd not be proud israeli nowaday. I'd rather be ashamed of what the bunch of Israeli incompetent managers inspired by the less competent US administration.

[ronniehm]

Why do people say "not to disappoint you" when they intend to disappoint you? Well, not to disappoint you, but did Hezbollah even hit anything non-civilian? A mailbox? A donut shop? Anything? And how do you give warnings to civilians when you yourself have no idea what you're hitting? What did they take -- about 200 shots at those fuel tanks? The only reason Hezbollah didn't contaminate Israeli beaches is that they missed.

[grazinggoat]

Then I'm happy, RonnieHM you're disappointed and stay that way all your life. The best hitting targets (unfortunately to those who died, and their relatives) were the 100's some or some 100's military casualties hardly recognized by IDF. For the first time IDF gets hit more than its foes in a military confrotation. And that is quite regrettable for the parents of young kids gone to the front, or their young families if married. We're not here to discuss Y that started. I'm saying mismanagement and the Bully attitude the Zionist State has always taken toward its neighbors: Everything can be solved by force, are the main responsible of what happened.
The best way to solve this problem, is to sit and negotiate. Give justice a way to settle the problem with the Palestinian authority and the palestinian newly democratically ELECTED government, without labelling them as terrorists and acting upon them accordingly (Jimmy Carter was an observer in the election Process). Give the road map a chance without negating it every five days, and building walls of shame.
Force and Power are the weapons of the past. Things have changed in the Middle-East, the distribution of Power has shifted toward a more radical regimes, because of the intransigence of Israeli Adminstrations and their Bully attitude.
I'm sure this day will come soon. It only needed an first show of resolve in front of Israel. Hezballah just did it.

[ronniehm]

You want me to be disappointed for the rest of my life because I don't agree with you? No wonder I don't understand your position. I don't hate you.

[carlylaine]

carwy...I love it when we aren't afraid of them or of the truth. Glad you wrote what you wrote.

[carlylaine]

ReturnToEden:

It doesn't matter if we've never lived in the Middle East. There are other ways of learning other than being there. What a stupid argument that is. Shall I become a drug addict so I can KNOW what it is like to stick a needle in my arm or live with holes in my arms? NUTS!!?

Who would want to live in the Mid East hell hole just to find out what we already know that arabs are vindictive, hateful and mean? I care not for the Middle Eastern countries at all-except for Israel.

[carlylaine]

ReturnToEden:

It doesn't matter if we've never lived in the Middle East. There are other ways of learning other than being there. What a stupid argument that is. Shall I become a drug addict so I can KNOW what it is like to stick a needle in my arm or live with holes in my arms? NUTS!!?

Who would want to live in the Mid East hell hole just to find out what we already know that arabs are vindictive, hateful and mean? I care not for the Middle Eastern countries at all-except for Israel.

[carlylaine]

RonnieHM

YOU GO!

[zeta22-2009]

I can't decide what to admire more: The stubborn stupidity of some auto proclaimed defenders of islamic fanaticism or the naivete of some when arguing those extremists' actions.
Let me be clear. I don't think that all muslims (not even a very substantial percentage of them) are extremist or fanatical. Far from that. I know the vast majority are decent people who care for their own and their families well being, thru hard and honest work, like anyone else in the world. Just look at the scenes in the streets of Bagdad... The problem is, the small minority of fanatics are, by their own nature, quite noisy and brutal.
It's a shame that a substantial part of the media seems to be willing to "sell" their message without much regard for the factual truth.
Case in point: It's obvious and logical to anyone, with no need to be in Lebanon, that Israel (or any other democratic nation) would very much prefer live in peace rather than at war. If Israel has anything good is their intelligence services. And it doesn't take a genious to realize that this last raid to the norwest of Beirut could only have been to intercept yet another shipment of arms and ammunition from Syria/Iran.
(To be continued)

[zeta22-2009]

(Continued)
Now, to claim this action as a flagrant violation of the cease-fire agreement, when the same agreement was never fully accepted by the Lebanese government and by the hezbolah who, in the first place, refused to disarm this terrorist movement (it would suffice, as they declared, that they would not exhibit their guns in public, can you imagine? Well, these were not the terms of the resolution!) and when the UN force is taking forever to assemble and take over the space left by the IDF, what the hack are we talking about?
Attitudes like these just reinforce in many people's minds the idea that the UN cannot or will not provide viable solutions and that nations will be forced to take upon their hands to defend themselves and their interests against a growing hysteria of extremist fanaticism covered, in part, by a very politically correct media, incapable of putting out factual and unbiased information, no matter who likes it or dislikes it.
It's just sad.

[jms_cheung]

I believe the Israelis Army has done the right thing to prevent Hisbollah from RE-ARMING themselves to bombard Israel's cities -- thus it cannot be construed as a violation of UN ceasefire. It is the prerogative and rights of Israel to go into Lebannon ANYTIME in the future to destroy the weapons caches & terrorist-masterminds of the Hisbollah whose terrorism is sponsored by Iran & Syria. As long as Hisbollah is not de-militarised, Israel will continue to have this right to pre-emptive the terrorist plots of the Hisbollah.

[reuben110-2009]

You have to question, as the war has now drawn to a conclusion whether or not it was worth invading it in the first place, and if the Israeli PM is now content with the outcome of the war, given that his rating have suffered. Had he been told that his army were going to fight hizbollah, fail to disarm them, fail to secure the release of the kidnapped soldiers, fail to get their tv station off air, spark worldwide protests as far as the Phillipines, and make them even more popular then they were with a good chance that they may eventually take over Lebanon...You have to question would he have done it? And of course i missed out what maybe less significant in their eyes, displaced millions, injured thousands, and killled just over a thousand civillians.

Either which way, yes, it is by no means a bad thing to fight terrorism, but what our government and media had hoped was that Hizbollah would be viewed in the same league as Al Qaida, which consquently it didn't. This was a PR disaster. Not only that but the majority of the world, especially if you watch other news networks such as the BBC, will tell you that the way in which we and the Isrealis conducted ourselves has created us more enemies than we in the first place. It is undeniably this sort of conduct that hampers our progress n the War on Terror. It is this sort of foreign policy that makes the terrorist's recruitment even easier.

No-one likes them, but we played right into their hands on this one.

[reuben110-2009]

Furthermore, I hear the Israeli soldiers have expressed their disatisfaction at the way the war was handled, the reservists in particular claimed their training was very limited, that there were people fighting who hadn't thrown a grenade in 15 years, that water supplies were pitiful to the extent they had to drink from a Hizbollah canteen. They said communications were very poor, and occasionally their was fire exchanged amongst themselves on the presumtion that they were facing Israeli disguised Hizbollah guerillas.

Olmert has not emeged from this in the way in which he had hoped. People now hope at if Israel is dragged into another war that he will not be at the helm, and rightfully so.

This war was a disgrace, they even managed to have a statement released by Kofi Annan claimin that they had intentionally attacked a UN base.What a complete and utter shambles. With a reputation of a strong and professional millitary that in 6 days managed o defeat both Syria and Egypt, could not conclude a victory in 30days, and were politically forced into a ceasefire. With the outcomes as truly dismal as they are, why is it that people are bewildered as to why the terrorists are claiming a istric victory. Sure if you look at it from an Isael versus Lebanon perspective, that is one thing, but Israel versus Hizbollah is quite another. Dont put yourself under any illusions, a ceasefire is not a comprehensive victory.

[grazinggoat]

Continued
Unless you don't care about the law of International Bodies such as Uited Nations, which seems to be the case, and then why The Lebanese Resistence would care to, since it has no value for Israel. So face to face and the belligerents fight again and see who wins. Zionists have just tasted the will and resolute of the lebanese resistence. They (zionists) are now stealing and abducting people belonging to Lebanese resistence in order to exchange them. That is agood sign of frightness and cowardise of the most powerful army in the middle east.

[grazinggoat]

What a licking stand from you RonnieMH, CarlyLaine, Zeta22 and cheung. At first, the attack on Lebanon was never decided by the incompetent Israeli Administration, specially not the turtle face Olmert. It was pushed by the intransigent and incompetent bully monkeyface-GWB administration. Nothing to be proud of at all. Human history taught us the stubborn-aggressive standing never leads to successful survival. You all don't even want to consider arguments that Israel has inflicted to Lebanon and its population what the UNITED NATIONS, calls CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, and condemn it. Just cannot believe that you are defending a criminal state. And you want the Lebanese resistence to disarm and that CRIMINAL OF WAR to continue its abject acts upon Lebanese Civilian population. U are either Zionists or simply out of your mind. It's like U are willing to let the JonBenet suspect-killer, be in presence of another girl in one hotel room, alone. Imagine what would happen... With the Qana2 massacre done to civilians hiding in a shelter, still fresh in mind, you should at least say enough is enough. (see continued)

[reuben110-2009]

Grazingoat leave them to their views,

The truth is most jews I know, would go so far as to support Israel were it to launch a pre-emptive strike on Malawi, if there was a suspicion it harboured terrorists.That is the truth of the matter. They harbour the view that Israel is the holy land, so if it were to attack the White house, it would be justified. They fail to comprehend that just because a government is fighting, it is justified. How more nonsensical can you get. Soon it will dawn on people that a terrorism is the destruction and killing of innocent civillains and their infrastructure. Just because all of a sudden you are democratically elected, it doesnt give you license to do that.

Arabs are victims of poor governance that fails to address their problems, that fail to stand up to monster states, and hence these people take matters into their own hands. They are seen as vigilantes.

If you think this war was the correct decision read my preious two comments, id be interested in a response. Its strange, I am a jew, though im not religious what i stand for is a just and moral. When i do not see it i say it. People are probably going o brand me a supporter of terrorism now, and i say to them in advance:YOU ARE IN DENIAL

[ronniehm]

reuben, the real truth is most Muslims hate non-Muslims. They have for centuries, so to analyze this conflict based on who did what last week is a little silly. As for the grand efforts of the almighty UN, they just make one resolution after another that does nothing but acknowledge the failure of the last resolution. This so-called cease fire between Israel and a government that has no control over what's happening in Lebanon was absurd. If the agreement isn't between the two warring parties, what's the point? Then, to guarantee its failure, the UN didn't even put one single soldier into Lebanon to assure compliance. They left Israel standing around to watch weapon shipments being delivered to a group that was supposedly disarmed from the previous resolution. Now I assume that the UN would have prevented arms from reaching Hezbollah if any of those 400 (sigh) French solders had bothered to show up. And I suspect France would have been in compliance with the cease fire for doing exactly what Israel did. Hypocrites.

[ronniehm]

goat, unless your side is in compliance with every single UN resolution (or even just the last two), don't bother quoting the UN as an authority. I don't.

[grazinggoat]

...Continued,
If humans came to a comprehensive undertanding of each's needs, then there is no war (Which has been done by writing the United Nations charter of rights. I consider this is a God Revelation, at the exception of not having the sacred stamp we find in the old Holy Books). If Prophets and old-time Kings were alive, they would like this kind of charters and they'd certainly rectify their old versions. They would qualify it of innovative and profitable to humans, so they'd stamp ((DEVINE)) on it... Proof to this is the relative growth stability of the total population of the earth. It increased from hardly two billion in the 1950's to the actual 6 billions + in less than two generations. That is quite an acheivement.

I also include the link to the page of United Nations related to the protection of civilian persons in time of war.

http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/civilianpersons.htm
It's rather fantastic. Everybody should read it and stick to it. I'd rather say that it should apply to in time of peace into some countries that don't provide the minimum to their subjects.

So peace on everybody, creatures of the God, now tomorrow and for ever... amen

[grazinggoat]

Please calm the game here. The UN is an assembly of the peoples of the Earth. The one and only we have and on which we all humans, goim or gentiles or whatever you want altogether with the animals, live and share. (By the way I don't digest this auto-labelling of being the best between humans and the rest are less than nothing. This leads to apartheid, and exclusions). The critics about what is written in this kind of writings (holy books) has been remedied to with the creation of the United Nations which gave rights to all humans on the same base. I here let you have a look at it.

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/043/88/IMG/NR004388.pdf?OpenElement

It eliminates such pogroms in the name of difference, and it gives the right to all humans, (which are the CREATION OF THE CREATOR, pleases to some extreme semites or extreme Neo-Cons, or not...) because it grants the garantees to all with no distinction of religion, ***, color or minority origin. So there is something weird into auto-labelling best of the best... It's what Sigmund Freund called the Paranoia. Everybody wants to kill me and I'm a victim, so please help me. (please read continued...)

[reuben110-2009]

I don't know why Ronnie is slating the UN, afterall if there is any nation that has made the UN a laughing stock it is Israel. Why are you talking about UN resolutions Ronnie, let me give you a fact, there is no nation on God's green earth that has failed to comply with UN resolution more than Israel, its just that the US has stood by to veto any chapter 7s. Why criticise the UN when Israel is the cheif non-compliant nation?

What you said in your little message was interesting, you mentioned 2 warring parties, this is how most people viewed the war(equally). Hence anyone who stood by and watching the US deliver weapons, has every right to watch Hizbollah recieve weapons.

Cont..

[reuben110-2009]

cont...

Then you go one step further, you really hit the epitomy of stupidy, i mean you really reach the summit. Most muslims hate non-muslims?? If i was to say most jews hate non-jews, you would scream anti-semitism at me.You are an islamophobe. Actually muslims have a population of 1.5 billion people worldwide, a very very small minority are terrorists, their religion condemns the killing of the innocent. Most of them, and this is the enlightening bit for you, so listen carefully, perhaps read over once more, to make sure this really hits home for you, most muslims love their families, work to earn for them and sincerely care for their well-being. You are either a radical jew, or anotther one of those ignorant folk who feel the outskirts of Nebraska need to be protected from terrorism. I truly feel sorry for people as ignorant as you going by some of the absurdities that have travelled from your brain to you fingertips and managed to pollute

[ronniehm]

Wow, you really have contempt for people who don't agree with you. It's hard to believe your attitude hasn't brought peace and harmony to the Muslim world yet.

[ronniehm]

P.S. If by Islamophobe, you mean someone who's scared of Islam, then yes, I guess I'm one.

[reuben110-2009]

no i have contempt for stupidity...shame that that is all you could come up with...a measly 2 lines. your almost as pathetic as your views, though i dont want to embarass you further, before you get the impression that i am mad...which i very truly am not..let me re-iterate..i feel sorry for you..

[reuben110-2009]

if intellect isnt one of your stronger traits..at least you can console yourself that honesty is..i think i have said enough now..take care

[ronniehm]

I'm comfortable knowing that civility is one of my stronger traits. No matter how many times you call me stupid and ignorant, I'll have no contempt for you.

[reuben110-2009]

There is a lot of confusion about terrorism particularly in our country. As well as there being some very appropriate fears that the scum of the earth will try profusely to kill civillains, there are legitimate fears among the population of middle-eastern countries that in favt our troops will come and invade and kill their loved ones.

No one talks about the IRA, or ETA, no one talks about the Israeli who killed Palestinian workers with a mindless gun rampage after the pullout of Gaza. Perhaps we should use him as an example. Perhaps people ought to recognize that he felt powerless, weak, and insufficient as his Government did not protect his interests, and the interests of his nation. It isnt wrong for middle-eastern muslims to feel the same way, a lot of them ought to feel that way. Al Qaeda is the scum of the earth in my opinion there is no lower being then those who are members or supporters.

At the same time however to put Hizbollah into this category is nonsensical. Perhaps people ought to look at it from another perspective, if you were lebanese, and it was your loved ones and neighbours that were dieing, would you be moderate? would you back Israel? Not a chance and rightly so.

People must realise,that all of a sudden if you are elected, it doesnt mean that if you bomb schools and hospitals and deny aid that you have moral high ground.

But I will say something in favour of the Israelis, at least they rape less and don't run prisons like Abu-Ghuraib!

[grazinggoat]

(...Continued)
What has been forgotten in the successive revelations is the nature and the environment. It seems that GOD has kind of forgotten or did HE do it on purpose. HE forgot to tell about the natural selection as a way of improving the creation. Albert Einstein who said time is relative and for someone who is out of the time is eternal. Since GOD created the time, He who is Eternal, can SEE the future and present and the past at the same moment. So what we humans see as past-present and future are in fact the same moment for the Creator. He can see how one looks like when young, teen, adult, elderly and why not dead, and why not after death... the soul...

Where in the holy books is said that The Creator has not chosen the natural selection His way of making humans good and better, more beautiful, more intelligent, (some more stubborn!).
Peace on yall and on every creature on earth, amen

[grazinggoat]

Remind you Mr RonnieHM, that the ones who killed and burnt 6 millions jews, were not arabs, not moslems. Those who killed the 25 000 000 to 50,000,000 (READ WITH ME FIFTY MILLION) humans in Europe in the second world war were not moslems. You know who they were, and still are. But they were not moslems. So please don't **** the whole world off with your hatred and intolerence toward whoever doesn't eat Kosher or doesn't stand in salute in front of the US flag/ Star of David.

By the way I'm not an Islamic expert, but I heard that Fundamental Islam is the naturel son of Fanatical Christianism and son of Fanatical Judaism. Seems that the Judaism is still closer to Isalm than Christianity. Some told me the five daily prayers in Islam and Judaism, the women in both religions who cover with scarves, the guys who get slicked when circumcised (Outch), the same Prophets and Kings, same books, no food but Halal or Kosher, no alcohol, no Pork... They say Islam is a softer version of Judaism. Is that true...? Because maybe they say Islam gave females the right of Ownership and the right to worship, whereas untill recently in the western hemisphere, they were still wondering if the female had a soul... the rest are details.