Transcript: Exclusive Bush Interview

President Bush Sits Down With Bob Schieffer

(CBS) 
SCHIEFFER: Well, do you think that it may be possible that there will be a large number of American troops there when your successor, whoever that is, takes office in 2009?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I--I can't--I--I really don't want to make that prediction. It would--it--it--it--I--I am going to make my decisions for the next three years based upon what our commanders recommend. I do want to assure the American people, one, I would like to get troops home, and secondly--but I don't want to get them home without winning, and the definition of winning is a country that can govern itself, sustain itself, and defend itself, and a country which will not become a safe haven for the terrorists. And I want to remind your viewers, Bob, that the terrorists have made it abundantly clear they want to drive us out of Iraq so they can have a safe haven from which to operate--that would be Mr. Zarqawi--and--and that's why it's very important for us not only to train the Iraqis, but to stay on the hunt for these people.

SCHIEFFER: Let's talk a little bit about this whole idea of eavesdropping without court orders. You said very strongly, and the strongest language I've heard you use yesterday, that you believe it is not only legal, you believe it is absolutely necessary in the War on Terrorism. The--the question I have, Mr. President, is: Do you believe that there is anything that a president cannot do, if he considers it necessary, in an emergency like this?

PRESIDENT BUSH: That's a--that's a great question. You know, one of the--yeah, I don't think a president can tort--get--can order torture, for example. I don't think a president can order the assassination of a leader of another country with which we're not at war. Yes, there are clear red lines, and--it--you--you--you just asked a very interesting constitutional question. The extent to which a president, during war, can exercise authorities in order to protect the American people, and that's really what the debate is about. I--I made the decision to listen to phone calls of Al Qaeda or suspected Al Qaeda from outside the country coming in or inside the country going out because the people, our operators, told me that this is one of the best ways to protect the American people. And it wasn't an easy decision to make, but as I thought through the decision-making process, I asked a couple of questions: One, do I have the authority to do it? In other words, implicit in your question is, will I just act without determining if I have authority. And so, in other words, I got--I--I was convinced by the legal department of the--of this--of this White House and the Justice Department that I did have the authority, and we looked at it very carefully. And secondly, I wanted to make sure that civil liberties were guarded. In other words, that by unleashing this program there wasn't checks and balances on--inside the NSA so that they would circumvent my order, which was listening for phone calls outside the country and in vice versa; in other words, not listening to the phone calls within the country. It is important that this program go on. I understand the debate, and I understand the need to make sure people discuss and debate whether or not I have got the authority to do it, but as I told the American people--and I can't tell you how strongly I feel about this--if somebody is talking to Al Qaeda inside the United States, we need to know why, and that's what this program is aimed to do.

SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this, Mr. President because I just have never quite understood this, and maybe you could clear this up. As I understand the law, you had the right to wiretap or eavesdrop on anyone and have three days to tell the court about it. How does that slow you down?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I asked the same question to the people designing the program. I said, how come we can't use the procedures which you just described, and they said it won't work. It doesn't fit in with what Mike Hayden described as "hot pursuit." I have looked at this program from all angles, and my dilemma and my problem is I can't explain to you how it works in order to justify your question without telling the enemy what we are doing. And this debate is an interesting debate. I'm troubled by it only because the enemy listens, and they see what we are doing, and these are smart people, and they will adjust. And one of the interesting questions, Bob, about this whole debate is whether or not people think we are at war or people think this is kind of an isolated group of people that may or may not hit us, and I'm--perhaps it was because I was a sitting president when 9/11 occurred. Perhaps because I remember my words going to Congress just saying I'm not going to ever forget what took place, and I will use all the power and my authority within the Constitution to protect the American people, but I view this situation we're in as war, and therefore I must protect the American people with the tools available to me.

SCHIEFFER: Let's talk a little bit about domestic issues. It's my understanding you are going to have some things to say about healthcare in your State of the Union speech and health savings accounts that I understand you are going to propose be made more attractive through tax breaks, but I want to about ask about a law that's already on the books, and that's this prescription drug benefit for seniors.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Right.

SCHIEFFER: Everywhere I go, I find people who don't know what it means. Seniors are going to the drug store. They don't know what their plan is. They're all mixed up. Everybody is just having a real problem of getting their drugs. Do you think that's because of mismanagement, or is this law just so complicated that it can't be administered?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I think--in all due respect, I think everybody having problems getting their drugs is not exactly what's taking place. Millions have signed up to a new, reformed Medicare. Let's take a step back for a second.

SCHIEFFER: Sure.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Medicare wasn't working the way I thought it should. Lyndon Johnson, our fellow Texan, signed the bill. It hadn't been modernized for prescription drugs. I called upon Congress to modernize it, to make a prescription drug benefit available as a part of Medicare. I also said, let's give seniors more choices. Let's say we trust the consumer. Let the consumer make some choices. And so what you are seeing is two things: One, that seniors had been given options from which to choose, and I fully recognize that for many seniors the idea of making a choice is something they are just not interested in. You know, an older person just kind of liked the status quo, and so the idea of having to make choice or given options is one that I knew would be unsettling, and that's why we unleashed community groups and different groups--doctors' groups, nurses' groups--to explain to seniors if they want a different option they could choose it. What you are referring to, I think, is the issue of dual eligibles. I had talked to my little brother--Jeb, about this issue. There is about a million, I think he said 600,000 people on Medicare. About a hundred thousand of those are what they call--or hundred thousand of the million six are having some issue with their dual eligibility, whether it be Medicare, Medicare, who is going to pay for it. We are working through the glitches. I think what you are really seeing is a new law in effect for three weeks that affects a lot of people, and we are ironing out the glitches that--I shouldn't say that will inevitably will arise, but has arisen as a result of this new reform. It's a good deal for seniors. When it all settles out, seniors are going to realize that this Congress and this president have worked to modernize Medicare to make work better for them.

SCHIEFFER: Let's talk about energy independence. We remain, any way you cut it, dependent on foreign oil. I know you want to open up the Arctic wildlife preserve for drilling, but aren't we going to have to do more than that? And I just want to bring up one thing. Tom Friedman, the columnist in the New York Times, had a column today, and he said putting on a huge gas tax is the only way to really get Detroit's attention and get them to making other kinds of cars, and he said the only way to cause people to change their ways. He says you have to change the culture. What's your reaction to that?

PRESIDENT BUSH: First of all, I'm against a huge gas tax. Secondly, I agree with Mr. Friedman that we have got to become independent from foreign sources of oil. In other words, we have got to wean ourselves off hydrocarbons, oil. And the best way, in my judgment, to do it is to promote and actively advance new technologies so that we can drive--have different driving habits. For example, there is--I'm a little hesitant because I don't want to tell you what's in the State of the Union, let me put it to you that way.