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Barack Obama: Full Interview

On Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2009, Katie Couric interviewed then-President-elect Barack Obama at his transition team headquarters in Washington, D.C.



KATIE COURIC: So, President-elect Obama, which you'll be president when this airs,, by the way because this is gonna be for a primetime special on next Tuesday night, are you starting to realize the enormity of your new job?

PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA: Well yeah. Over the last several weeks we've been working on a whole bunch of stuff having to do with the economy, putting people back to work. So in some ways, this transition's been so unusual. We've had to do so much work on the front end that I think January 21st is not gonna feel that different from January 19th or January 17th. We also put our team together very quickly. So yeah, we're really just moving offices. But having said that, I think when you're sitting in the Oval Office, you're very clear that these decisions count. And I think the magnitude of it is humbling. And I'm sure I'll have trouble sleeping the night before.

COURIC: It's Tuesday and you're on the west side of the U.S. Capitol. Millions of people are watching you, all over the world, being sworn in as President of the United States.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: What is going through your mind?

OBAMA: Well, the first thing is what the temperatures are like, 'cause I get cold very easily. (LAUGHTER) So making sure I've got my long underwear in case it's cold that day. Yeah, I think what I'll be reflecting on is all the struggles and sacrifices of earlier generations. You know, down at the other end of the Mall there's a monument to a guy named Lincoln who had something to do with me being able to stand there and be sworn in. And, you know, what I hope to be able to do is to remind the American people and the world of this extraordinary tradition, this extraordinary experiment in democracy what it means so for so many of us and that that should give us confidence in our ability to meet the challenges that we're facing now.

COURIC: The extraordinary tradition of democracy and yet this extraordinary new chapter -- in our nation's history.

OBAMA: Yeah. It's a powerful thing. It sinks home most when I speak to people of an earlier generation. You know, when you talk to grandparents - African-American or white - who grew up in the '40s or the '50s. And to see how emotional they are about it, it is a powerful thing. It speaks to this country's capacity to change in remarkable ways. There's no other country on Earth that can undergo these kinds of transformations with the same speed and yet still stay stable and still stay true to its core traditions.

COURIC: People like the Tuskegee Airmen.

OBAMA: Yeah. Absolutely. That's gonna be a lot of fun seeing them there. I mean, you think about what they went through. And obviously they're an important chapter in this. You know, African-American servicemen in World War II, under Truman's order, started showing people that for all the tragic history that had faced the African-American people, they were patriots. They wanted to serve. And that helped to create the opening for the civil rights movement, the Voting Rights Act that obviously leads to a direct path to my inauguration.

COURIC: And despite their courage, they still were not treated equally.

OBAMA: Absolutely. They would come back and still sit at the back of the bus. You had German POWs that, in some cases, were treated with more respect than these men in America's uniform. So it's a powerful moment. But I think that as much as we look backward, I wanna make sure that coming out of this inauguration we're looking forward and that we understand our best days are ahead of us. But we've got a set of challenges right now that are daunting. And everybody's gonna have to contribute. Everybody's gonna have to pitch in in order for us to deal with it.

COURIC: In fact, two wars, a tough economy, healthcare, Social Security -- education reform. You have a lot -- in your in-box.

OBAMA: (LAUGHTER) Yes, I do.

COURIC: How do you balance the optimism and hope that surrounded your election with realistic expectations?

OBAMA: Well, it turns out that the American people, I think, are in a pretty good place, in the sense that they are hopeful and optimistic about what a new administration may bring. But they're realistic about what's gonna be accomplished in the first year or the first 18 months. I think people understand this economy is very weak, that we got ourselves into a deep hole. We're not gonna get out of it overnight. I think what people do expect is that overnight we can have a government that is more accountable, that is more transparent, that is less wedded to ideology and making decisions more on the facts and evidence and science and common sense. Yeah, those are the things that they're gonna, I think, be watching for me and for my administration.

Does this guy seem to be playing the straight? Is he being honest with us? Is he making decisions based on the best information? Is he listening to everybody and not just one side of an argument? And if we're doing that then, I think that they recognize that we're not gonna magically eliminate some of the problems that we've had but that we can make steady progress.

COURIC: And you're not gonna sugar coat it, are you?

OBAMA: No. One of the things that I am absolutely convinced of is that these are times that call for complete honesty with the American --

COURIC: Straight talk, to borrow a phrase from your former -- opponent.

OBAMA: Absolutely. Well, but I think people desperately -- they're hungry for that. They just don't want spin and sound bites. And so my goal is, throughout the presidency, is gonna be to speak honestly with the American people, not to talk down to them, not to try to dumb things down. The American people are plenty smart. And, you know, on an issue like the economy, if we say, 'Look, here's where we are. Here are the steps we're gonna take. It's gonna take some time.' On issues like the budget, if we say we're gonna have to spend some money now to kick start the economy and create or save millions of jobs. But we've got these short-term and long-term deficits that are unsustainable, and there are only a few ways that we can deal with them. You know -and it's not gonna be painless. I think people appreciate that. Now, they may not agree with every choice that I make. But at least they'll know how I'm making those choices, what -- my thought process is. And that is hopefully not just good policy but ultimately will be good politics.

COURIC: You also want people who can be honest with you.

OBAMA: Yeah.

COURIC: You have said that repeatedly.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: And did so during the campaign. You've gathered an impressive Cabinet and White House staff. Is there one person who can say "no" to you? Can speak truth to power, if you will?

OBAMA: I think there's gonna be a whole bunch of them. (LAUGHTER) They're lining up. I think my chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel is gonna be an invaluable member of this team because Rahm's not intimidated by anybody. He and I are good enough friends that he is not awed by the office. And he's served in the White House before. So I think that he and I can get in an argument and he's not gonna feel that somehow he's constrained. I think that you look at some of the Cabinet - obviously Hillary Clinton's somebody of extraordinary stature herself. She's gonna speak her mind. But also Bob Gates, who the more I get to know him, the more impressed I am. I mean, he's just a thoughtful, smart, steady guy and is not interested in turf battles or who gets credit but just getting the job done. Jim Jones -- my National Security Advisor -- here's the guy who's been you know supreme commander of NATO. Now, that's a title there. (LAUGHTER) Supreme commander. And, you know, and he looks --

COURIC: You're gonna be saying "yes" to him.

OBAMA: Absolutely.

COURIC: Yes, sir.

OBAMA: Well, he looks the part, you know? The guy's 6'4" and ramrod straight. He's what you want a general to look like. And so we've got some very accomplished, capable people. And what's been pleasant to watch during the course of the transition is how all of them seem to be focused on how do we solve problems? We just have not seen a lot of fuss between people so far. And hopefully I can maintain that tone at the top.

COURIC: What about Michelle Obama?

OBAMA: Well, I mean, she's the one who always keeps me straight. Yeah, Michelle, has really handled this whole process with extraordinary grace and wisdom. And she's so honest to her core that she's just a breath of fresh air sometimes when I come home and I've been dealing with politics and politicians. And she'll talk to me about my work. But she has the perspective of somebody who's outside it, who's grounded, who thinks of herself as a citizen but also as a mother. And she can ask disarming questions. But she really, I think, can keep me focused. And every day I say how lucky I am to have her.

COURIC: That's such a nice thing to be able to say. Has she freaked out at any point? Said, "Oh, my God, honey, what have we gotten ourselves into?" (LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: Yeah, I think moving from Chicago was harder than we expected. And, you know, we'd just gotten back from Hawaií. We'd been on vacation. We get home and the movers had already been there and taken out all the clothes and books. We're keeping our home there. But you know, that day, as we were preparing to leave, was more emotional than I expected. Malia, who's 10 now, one of her best friend in Chicago brought over an album that she had made. They had been friends since they were in pre-kindergarten. And they had this album made of each year, you know, on swings, and made up in Halloween costumes. And you had this sense of the passage of time and a phase of our lives had ended. And both of us sort of tried to bite our lip to avoid choking up in front of the kids. But, you know, that's been hard on her and me. On the other hand, there's enormous excitement about what's to come. And I think she is gonna thrive. I think she's gonna be a First Lady that the American people really get attached to and feel good about.

COURIC: Do your daughters appreciate the historical significance of your presidency?

OBAMA: They're not overwhelmed by it. They're not awed by it. I think they understand it. My favorite moment this week was on Saturday. I took Malia and Sasha and Michelle, we all went on a nighttime field trip to the Lincoln Memorial. And I love the memorial at night, you know? Lincoln's statue lit up and you can see all across the Mall down to the Capitol. And so we stand in front of the Gettysburg Address. And Michelle's explaining to the girls how what Lincoln is saying, that this ground that has been consecrated by the blood of people who fought, means that any words we say are cheap, that they don't mean much, that the only way we can honor them is by making this country more just and more equal. And at this point, Malia, who's ten, turns to me and she says, "Yeah, how are we doing on that? How are we doing on that, Mr. President-elect?" So then we go to the other side and we're looking at the second inaugural by Lincoln. And Sasha, who's seven, she says, "Oh, that's longer. Are you gonna have to give one of those?" And I say, yeah, I'm gonna have to give one of those. In fact, this is a pretty short one. I explained to her mine might, will probably be longer 'cause I'm not as good a writer as Lincoln. And at which point Malia says "First African-American president, better be good. Have you started yet?" I said, "Thanks, kid." So --

COURIC: Kids'll keep you humble, won't they?

OBAMA: Yeah. So they have a sense of what's going on. But you know, all they do is, you know, I'm still their daddy.

COURIC: I was gonna say, you're Dad.

OBAMA: I'm Dad. And their expectation is they'll needle me a little bit and see if I can step up my game.

COURIC: How will you keep things normal for them to avoid those big therapy bills (LAUGHTER) ten years from now?

OBAMA: I've said this before. They, so far at least, have such poise, such equanimity and nothing seems to faze them. And sometimes I don't know what their secret is. Partly it's their mother. And they have so much love and I think such stability. But also Michelle's so good at providing them structure and discipline that we haven't seen problems yet. I am concerned about as they go into their teenage years, how they deal with the scrutiny. And so part of my hope is that the press gives them room. If they do, then I think they'll be fine. And we've spoken to the Clintons about this 'cause they did a great job with Chelsea. She's turned into a wonderful young woman. And she was a teenager during the Clintons' time in the White House. And I think what was very important was that the press respected the children's privacy and gave them room to grow up.

COURIC: They said some pretty mean things about Chelsea during her adolescent years. And it was really, I think, terrible.

OBAMA: Yeah, I don't know what people are thinking sometimes. Kids are out of bounds. And I think everybody should understand that. That will be the one thing that will get me, as a father, real riled up, if I start seeing people not respecting them.

COURIC: I know Michelle's mother, Marian Robinson -- will be coming to live at the White House.

OBAMA: This is very good.

COURIC: It has the makings, it seems to me, of a sitcom, though. (LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: Well, you know, first of all, my mother-in-law and I get along great. In fact, she defends me when Michelle's too hard on me. So I want her.

COURIC: Yeah. (LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: She's an ally. 'Cause she can be a little bit of a buffer if I screw up. And she's so good with the girls. And that really helps to give them some normalcy. But, look, this is a huge leap for her. Here's somebody who has lived in the same house in Chicago for 40 years, small bungalow on the south side of Chicago. You know, it was most of her working life was a secretary. And then suddenly her first move is to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. That's a big leap. But she's one of these people who if she feels that this is what's needed then she sucks it up and she does it.

COURIC: I can only imagine the kind of comfort that will give both you and Michelle -- to have -- the girls' grandmother there. I mean -- you're so lucky.

OBAMA: I, we are.

COURIC: You really are. What do you think will be the most fun thing about living -- this is a real hardball. (LAUGHTER) What do you think is going to be the most fun thing about living in the White House?

OBAMA: Well, what we've heard is Camp David is terrific. And for a couple of reasons. Number one, and I'm being a little selfish here, apparently they have a full-court basketball court indoors. So that's big. But the other -- the hardest thing-- the hardest adjustment I've had in this whole process is being in a bubble. Everywhere I go now, motorcades and Secret Service and so I just can't go and take a walk somewhere and clear my head, or, for that matter, take my girls to the zoo without it being a big scene. We did it in Honolulu. And it was good. But obviously you had a pack of folks following us around. And so to be able to go to Camp David and walk through some woods or find a bike trail, that I think is gonna be a terrific thing for the family. And we'll take advantage of that.

COURIC: Let me ask you this question. I've just a couple of really quick sort of questions to ask you.

OBAMA: Sure.

COURIC: Inevitably when a president leaves office, they show the before and after pictures.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: Because this is a very stressful and aging job.

OBAMA: Are you about to point out (LAUGHTER) my gray hair here?

COURIC: (LAUGHTER) No, I feel sort of like the -- the grim reaper suddenly.

OBAMA: Go ahead.

COURIC: How will you deal with the stress?

OBAMA: I have been very consistent about working out. Some people have teased me about it in the press. But it is a great stress reliever for me -- is just to make sure that I get in an hour a day to just break a sweat. So I will be doing that.

COURIC: Plus, you're such a healthy eater.

OBAMA: Yeah.

COURIC: I hear it's pretty annoying.

OBAMA: No. You know, this is a little overstated. I mean, my favorite foods are, you know, chicken wings or you know, I can scarf down pizza with the best of them. But --

COURIC: I hear you're Mr. Salmon.

OBAMA: But what is true is that I don't eat that stuff every day 'cause if I do then I start falling asleep after lunch. (LAUGHTER) So that helps with stress. The kids help relieve stress. You know, I think you were asking earlier about what I'm looking forward most to in the White House is, look, I've got a home office basically. And what that means is that when the girls come home, they can run and say hello to their daddy. I will have dinner with them every night that I'm home, you know, even if I have to go back to work. And that is a huge shift from the campaign where I was away five, six days a week. And that was by far the biggest hardship that I've gone through.

COURIC: You don't really think of this job as working at home, do you, necessarily. (LAUGHTER) But speaking of stress, what's going on with the smoking thing?

OBAMA: You know, we're doing fine with it. I know everybody likes to poke, you know. I haven't had an interview yet where this one doesn't get raised.

COURIC: Well, I think people just wanna know how it's going. And I think -- they feel for you.

OBAMA: Yeah, we're doing fine. I'll do better if people don't keep on bringing it up. (LAUGHTER)

COURIC: Okay. I can't make any promises for my colleagues, but enough said. Have you figured out a way to keep your BlackBerry?

OBAMA: I'm still negotiating. But I think we may have found a solution that satisfies people.

COURIC: And if your mom could be here and could be standing near you as you're sworn in--

OBAMA: She'd be crying. You know, she was a real softy. She'd cry at movies, you know? Born Free, she'd start -- you remember that with Elsa --

COURIC: Yeah, of course.

COURIC: What would you say to her?

OBAMA: Thank you. 'Cause me being here is a testimony to her love. I, you know, by all sensible odds, I shouldn't be sworn in as the 44th president. It was very unlikely, born to a single mom who was 18 at the time. And it is a testament to just her fierce determination to give her kids everything that they needed to succeed and then to give them a set of values and a belief in public service. So I'm a reflection of her. And wherever she is right now, I think she knows that.

COURIC: Let me ask you, if I could a couple of news-of-the-day questions because I'm sure you're briefed as soon as you wake up in the morning.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: A new Osama bin Laden tape was released. And in it he taunted President Bush -- and basically called for a new jihad to stop the aggression on Gaza. What will you do differently to bring Osama bin Laden to justice?

OBAMA: Well, I think I talked frequently during this campaign that we took our eye off the ball when we invaded Iraq. And now it's done. My job is to withdraw in a responsible way from Iraq and stabilize the situation there. But our real focus has to be on Afghanistan, the border regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan. And we have to put as much pressure on them as possible. And I've already spoken to my National Security team about how we're going to do that. And I'm confident that we can keep them on the run and ensure that they cannot train terrorists to attack our homeland. That's my number one priority as President of the United States.

COURIC: How important do you think it is, Mr. President-elect, to apprehend Osama bin Laden?

OBAMA: I think that we have to so weaken his infrastructure that, whether he is technically alive or not, he is so pinned down that he cannot function. My preference obviously would be to capture or kill him. But if we have so tightened the noose that he's in a cave somewhere and can't even communicate with his operatives, then we will meet our goal of protecting America.

COURIC: A renewed ceasefire seems pretty elusive at this juncture between Hamas and Israel. What would you say to leaders on both sides to break through the stalemate?

OBAMA: Right. Well, I know this is gonna run after I'm sworn in.

COURIC: No, this will run tonight actually.

OBAMA: It will? Oh--

COURIC: Yes, yes, I'm sorry.

OBAMA: Well, okay.

COURIC: These are like news of the day.

OBAMA: All right. Gotcha. So let's start that one over.

COURIC: A renewed ceasefire between Hamas and Israel seems elusive.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: What would you say to the leaders of both parties in an effort to break this stalemate?

OBAMA: Well, you know, I've been very clear on this, Katie, that until January 20th we have one president at a time and that's George Bush. And I don't wanna get cross waves in terms of the signals we send at such a delicate juncture. But I can repeat what I said during the campaign, which is that the peace process between the Israelis and the Palestinians has been stalled for too long, that the United States has a critical role to play in advancing peace in the region. We are gonna start on day one -- Hillary Clinton, in her testimony during her confirmation hearing, expressed my views and the views of the administration that we can't delay. We can't kick the can down the road. We're gonna have to take a regional approach. We're gonna have to involve Syria in discussions.

We're gonna have to engage Iran in ways that we have not before. We've gotta have a clear bottom line that Israel's security is paramount. But that also we have to create a two-state solution where people can live side by side in peace. And that is a commitment that I am going to redouble in light of what's been happening over the last several days.

COURIC: I'm interviewing the number-two leader of Hamas this afternoon actually. What would you want to hear from him? What would you ask him?

OBAMA: Well, you know, I'd probably tip my hand a little bit too much. But I think for all parties involved, what I'm gonna be asking, as president is that they see the world not just through their own eyes but also through the eyes of their adversaries. You know, when civilians are killed, when children are killed, regardless of the boundaries which side that happens, it's a tragedy. And this is a tragedy that's been going on too long. And so I expect all of us to be sobered by what's happened and to move forward aggressively to prevent it from happening again.

COURIC: It was revealed yesterday that your nominee for Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geitner, failed to pay some taxes.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: And did so only after he learned that he would be tapped as Treasury Secretary. How embarrassing do you think this is for a future Treasury Secretary who will be overseeing the IRS?

OBAMA: Well, I think he's embarrassed about it. But we knew about this before we nominated him. It was an innocent mistake, a common mistake that's made. It happened when he was working for an international agency. And so they don't withhold in the same ways as they do when you're working domestically. You know, he corrected the problem and has paid penalties on it. But here's the bottom line. Nobody denies that he is uniquely qualified for this job, that he has more experience in dealing with international crises. He's been uniformly praised by Republicans and Democrats and by the marketplace. And so I'm confident he will be confirmed. And I'm confident he will do an outstanding job.

COURIC: And let me just end by asking you about the stimulus package. Forty percent of your stimulus package relies on tax cuts with the hopes that people will invest that money or put it back into the economy.

OBAMA: Right.

COURIC: But some critics have said, 'Hey, that didn't really happen the last time.' Why will it this time?

OBAMA: Well, there are a couple of things. First of all, I think it's important to understand that the majority of our spending is direct government spending on critical infrastructure that will set the table for long-term economic growth. We're gonna double alternative energy. We're gonna rebuild our schools and community colleges and public universities. We're gonna invest billions of dollars in health information technology so that we can drive down costs for average families. So that's where the majority of the money's going. When I talk to economists, all of them agree that the tax cuts can provide some added benefit in terms of jumpstarting the economy. And most of the tax cuts that I've been talking about are ones that I talked about during the campaign -- which is to target working families who have not seen wages or incomes go up at all over the last decade just about. So that they have a little more money in their pocket to buy a computer for their kids, to fix the roof.

And people generally believe that tax cuts can be effective in this situation 'cause we can get them out quickly. Some of these projects that we're setting up, they may not be actually online for a year. Whereas a tax cut, that money is immediately in people's pockets. Now, are some people gonna just pay down their credit cards or save some of that money? Absolutely. And if Congress has better suggestions where they can show me that one approach is gonna be better than another approach, I'm happy to take it. I don't have pride of authorship here. But the general framework, the general outlines of the plan are ones that we have run by economists from the left and the right, conservative, liberal. This is a package that I think is gonna make sense. We're gonna save or create three million or four million new jobs in this country. I have every confidence that it's gonna work. But it's gonna take some time. And we've gotta do it with some speed. So my main message to Congress right now is "Get it done."

COURIC: And if it doesn't work?

OBAMA: Failure is never an option. Not in America.

COURIC: Mrs. Hubbard's fifth grade class from New Canaan, Connecticut, from Saxe Middle School wanted me to ask you this question. What motivated you to become President of the United States?

OBAMA: I got hit in the head with a rock. (LAUGHTER)

COURIC: That explains it.

OBAMA: No, that's not why. Right, I was dropped on my --

COURIC: They'll find that very inspiring. (LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: I was dropped on my head when I was a kid. (LAUGHTER) No, when I was in fifth grade, I wasn't dreaming of being president. But I was dreaming that I could make a difference in some way. And as I got older, that led me into politics. But I think there are a lot of ways to serve.

One of the things that we wanna communicate during this inauguration is that you don't have to be president to serve your country. You don't have to be in the military to serve your country, although that is one of the most noble ways you can serve. You can decide to be a teacher. You can volunteer in your local community to help the homeless.

There's so much work to be done. And we had a day of service, we're having a day of service on Dr. King's birthday on Monday, the day before inauguration. Millions of people across the country initiated some sort of service project. That's the kind of atmosphere, the kind of spirit I wanna communicate to everybody, especially young people, because, you know, my main message to fifth graders is dream big dreams. Don't sell yourself short and don't settle. You can change the world. You can do anything if you're willing to work for it.

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