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November 12, 2009 6:33 PM

Pot Legalization: Already A Moot Point?

Posted by Charles Cooper
(KGPE)
Chalk it up to happenstance but as Judge James Gray and the Drug Free America Foundation's David Evans concluded their CBS News.com debate on pot legalization earlier this week, the American Medical Association urged the federal government to review its decades-old classification of marijuana.

Not that the opinion of this august medical association likely will sway many of the undecided - if there are many undecided still left. (Are there any?) Judging from the tenor of the posts in the talkback section over the course of our two-day point-counterpoint, both sides appear locked and loaded in their conviction that their opponents are flat wrong.

The central plank of the anti-legalization argument is the claim that marijuana use has destructive health and social consequences. When I was growing up, that was the conventional wisdom, at least until the social changes wrought by the counterculture began stripping away the stigma around pot smoking. So it was that however ably he argued his brief - and his undeniably was a first-rate demonstration of the art of rhetoric - Evans was battling not just with Gray but also against four decades of increasing societal acceptance of marijuana use. The pro-legalization movement has good reason to believe that it's just a matter of time before local legislatures around the country rewrite local laws to reflect that change. In fact, the legislature in my home state of California recently met to hold hearings on a proposal to legalize, regulate and tax pot. On top of this comes the AMA news.

The arguments won't get put to rest, but at this point, you have to wonder it's already a moot point.
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by RFWoodstock November 14, 2009 12:10 PM EST
Valid medicinal value, it?s a victimless crime, the War on Drugs WAY too costly, too many arrests for simple possession, tax it and use the money to pay for health insurance and to reduce the deficit?Need I say more?

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by xmissile November 14, 2009 10:52 AM EST
The relaxation of laws prohibiting marijuana have more to do with economic necessity than political reality. States are facing record budget deficits with no end in sight. They simply do not have the resources to actively pursue, prosecute, and incarcerate offenders. In my state, police officers are turning a blind eye to minor possession. If you are a marijuana exponent, now is the time to go on the offensive and tear down legislation.
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by reverendanslinger November 14, 2009 10:35 AM EST
Marihuana is the Devil's Weed! Harsh punishments are in order for its use and cultivation.

The world will be at peace when this scourge is erased from our planet!
Reply to this comment
by retiredgustav November 14, 2009 11:58 AM EST
Our goverment needs to make a concerted effort to locate and punish any one who ever smoked marijuana in their life and put them in jail for at least 20 years. Even if it was 50 years ago they need to be punished!
by MatterofLiberty November 14, 2009 2:50 PM EST
Wasn't it Jesus who said "it matters not what goes into a mans mouth but what comes OUT...", furthermore Cannibus is a seed bearing plant given to man according to his own use as outlined by genesis!! But maybe you could enlighten me.... what page of the bible do we find "THOU SHALT NOT USE CANNIBUS"???
by usofcredit November 14, 2009 8:11 PM EST
I'm sorry but your argument is ridiculious.
(1)devils weed? where in the bible is this exactly?
(2)Jesus made wine, you wanna have the discussion on the negative effects/deaths/injuries/destruction caused by pot vs alcohol and then call pot devils weed?
(3)"The world will be at peace when this scourge is erased from our planet" You should really re-read your bible. One of the main points of the NT is that peace will not really exist till Jesus returns.
(4)""Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters ... Who are you to judge someone elses servant? To his own master he stands or falls ... Each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another ... Whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God."
by helron November 15, 2009 12:55 AM EST
The rev here needs to smoke a joint and relax a little.
by AttentionDeficit November 15, 2009 1:51 AM EST
Folks, I think the good reverend is joking
by dragon8me November 15, 2009 9:43 AM EST
Jesus was called the Christ, that means "the anointed one". What was He anointed with? Oil. Not 10w40, But it did have about 6 pounds of hash oil in it. Kanna Bossom was mis translated in the King James (as were many other things), it is not sweet flag or sweet cane but cannabis, which is what kanna bossom means in ancient Greek.
by samantha1974 November 15, 2009 2:53 PM EST
Really? The "devil's weed?" How overdramatic! Marijuana has been used for thousands and thousands of years, probably by one of your favorite characters of antiquity! I think you've seen way too many "reefer madness" videos. Here's my advice...go to the library, sit down with an open mind, and read up on the plant cannabis sativa. It's effects, benefits, etc. Now, after you do this I want you to also read up on alcohol...you know...that stuff you pour into little plastic cups and hand out to your congregation on occasion? Then, I want you to tell me which one you think you should be handing out as a sacrament, wine or weed.

I believe marijuana was the original sacrament, changed later to wine. Why do I believe this? Well you have to try it to understand. It brings you closer to God by making one more peaceful and loving, while alcohol tears you away from God by robbing the user of inhibition.

Your comment above is hilarious to me. I had no idea anyone on this planet was still THAT delusional about marijuana.
by lakota2012 November 14, 2009 9:50 AM EST
"The pro-legalization movement has good reason to believe that it's just a matter of time before local legislatures around the country rewrite local laws to reflect that change."
========================


As a matter of fact, that CHANGE is already underway:



Marijuana moves into open in a ?high? ski town

Drug ordinance spurs debate among businesses, ski bums in Breckenridge

BRECKENRIDGE, Colo. ? High-altitude partying is a deeply carved tradition in ski country, where alcohol in the open and illicit drugs in the shadows have been intertwined for years.

Even before last week?s town vote here that decriminalized the possession of small amounts of marijuana, one of the best-selling T-shirts at Shirt and Ernie?s on Main Street winked at what it means to live and play 9,600 feet up in the Rockies.

?Dude,? the shirt says, ?I think this whole town is high.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/us/14smoking.html?_r=1
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by lakota2012 November 14, 2009 10:00 AM EST
The vote on Nov. 3rd in Breckenridge that decriminalized the possession of small amounts of marijuana, was not even close, with 75% of the residents in favor of the issue.
by dragon8me November 14, 2009 9:15 AM EST
I will say this about Texas. Some of the biggest advocates for ending prohibition are from here. Like Willie Nelson and Woodie Harrelson. It's because until we're oppressed we don't get fired up enough to do something about it, and if you think outside the box here you will be oppressed.
Reply to this comment
by samantha1974 November 15, 2009 3:04 PM EST
That's funny because i haven't met not one! And I've lived here my entire life. In fact, while sitting in on a friend's arraignment hearing the district attorney got up and addressed the entire room and said, "And if you think you can smoke pot around here and get away with it, you're dead wrong. we don't like that stuff here. if you want to smoke pot, go to California. they don't seem to care over there."

Yeah, I was rather offended, but whatcha gonna do?
by dragon8me November 14, 2009 9:09 AM EST
It's certanatly not moot in central Texas. In this rural part of the state they are arresting people for cannabis every day. This county has only about 50,000. It goes to show 2 things. 1, there are a lot of stoners here to provide enough people to arrest, and thats the ones doing things to get them caught, the majority don't get caught because there smart enough to not do something to give them a reason to get arrested in the first place. 2, They are doing this because there afraid their main source of income will dry up soon if it's legalized.
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by retiredgustav November 14, 2009 12:02 PM EST
Here in Texas there is a lot of jury nulification going on. I was on one case in municipal court we voted 5 to 1 in favor of acquittal. The one guilty vote was that of an ex-cop.
by dragon8me November 15, 2009 9:47 AM EST
retiredgustav you must live near a city like Austin, I'm about 130 miles north and these southern Baptist will always convict someone for weed. I wish they would take their teabagging seriously and do that but there two faced on the issues.
by rwsmith29456 November 14, 2009 12:41 AM EST
Marijuana is a 'no big deal' drug but I'd be surprised if the government made it legal because they think it would send the message that all drugs are ok. Now the only 'ok' drugs are alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.
Reply to this comment
by MatterofLiberty November 14, 2009 2:58 PM EST
Government is definitly marginalizing their own policy by alleging that Cannibus is as Toxic and chemicaly addictive as Heroin, Cocain, and other drugs that can lead to lethal overdose!!! Once a person tries Cannibus and experiences the TRUTH, they may mistake ALL schedual I drugs as equally harmless and proceed to hurt themselves by experimenting. Lets get real and teach our kids that while Cannibus may alter your perception, and could(debatably)negativly effect your life, it is a whole different beast than these other ACTUALLY toxic, addictive drugs.
by DoubleHappiness88 November 13, 2009 11:29 PM EST
"Prohibition... goes beyond the bound of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded" -Abraham Lincoln

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." - Albert Einstein quote on Hemp

"The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world." - Carl Sagan, renown scientist, astronomer, astrochemist, author and TV host

"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany)

"Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country."
- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President

"Make the most you can of the Indian Hemp seed and sow it everywhere."
- George Washington, U.S. President

"We shall, by and by, want a world of hemp more for our own consumption."
- John Adams, U.S. President
Reply to this comment
by MatterofLiberty November 13, 2009 7:32 PM EST
It seems that most people in this country aren't really worried about adults actually using Cannibus in their own home, they're more worried about "Drugged Drivers". That being said why not simply amend the law so that anyone driving with more than a certain amount in the blood stream ( i.e. thc/blood content lvls at 5ng/ml or higher) lose their license for 6 mos or so and take a drug/alchohol safety course??? The technology already exists to take these measurements. Let all the responsible adults have their Liberty to use Cannibus safely. We already respect the rights of adults to inebriate themselves with a substance more toxic than Cannibus...Alchohol. Why would we waste billions of dollars to lock up folks that aren't commiting any other crime for simple possesion and simple personal cultivation???? (a couple of plants can land you in Federal Prison for 5 years and give you a 250,000 fine.)
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by AOCGUY November 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST
Concur - It is already illegal to operate a vehicle when impaired but spending precious tax dollars in the pursuit of people smoking a plant that grows wild on every continent on this planet (except the polar icecaps) is crazy.
by dagrandma November 15, 2009 9:32 AM EST
Oh, come on. When you're high and doing 40 mph, you feel like you're doing 60. And you stop for green lights.
by MatterofLiberty November 15, 2009 1:37 PM EST
Right so if a person is driving erraticaly give them a "careless and inprudent driving" ticket or a DUI let everyone else who can handle themselves like an adult stay home and out of our already overburdened criminal justice system!
by MatterofLiberty November 15, 2009 1:43 PM EST
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review


http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459#_ftn26
by MatterofLiberty November 15, 2009 1:44 PM EST
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459#_ftn26
by Emerald_Laughter November 13, 2009 6:01 PM EST
Marijuana prohibition exists because our govenment is corrupt. Until these laws are changed, our government does not represent the principles of freedom that this nation was founded on.
Reply to this comment
by Emerald_Laughter November 13, 2009 6:06 PM EST
Spelling Error: "govenment", should be "government". Sorry!
by samantha1974 November 15, 2009 3:06 PM EST
AMEN! Marijuana prohibition only serves to culminate even more distrust from those who know the truth about marijuana. Why not come clean and admit you made a mistake, Uncle Sam? We will forgive you. We'll forget all about it.
by DJBLAZEN November 13, 2009 4:02 PM EST
6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways
Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other research using completely different methods. For example, an economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased. This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal marijuana might actually save lives.

7. Marijuana "flattens" human brainwaves
This is an out-and-out lie perpetrated by the Partnership for a Drug-Free America. A few years ago, they ran a TV ad that purported to show, first, a normal human brainwave, and second, a flat brainwave from a 14-year-old "on marijuana". When researchers called up the TV networks to complain about this commercial, the Partnership had to pull it from the air. It seems that the Partnership faked the flat "marijuana brainwave". In reality, marijuana has the effect of slightly INCREASING alpha wave activity. Alpha waves are associated with meditative and relaxed states which are, in turn, often associated with human creativity.

8. Marijuana is more potent today than in the past
This myth is the result of bad data. The researchers who made the claim of increased potency used as their baseline the THC content of marijuana seized by police in the early 1970s. Poor storage of this marijuana in un-air conditioned evidence rooms caused it to deteriorate and decline in potency before any chemical assay was performed. Contemporaneous, independent assays of unseized "street" marijuana from the early 1970s showed a potency equivalent to that of modern "street" marijuana. Actually, the most potent form of this drug that was generally available was sold legally in the 1920s and 1930s by the pharmaceutical company Smith-Klein under the name, "American Cannabis".

9. Marijuana impairs short-term memory
This is true but misleading. Any impairment of short-term memory disappears when one is no longer under the influence of marijuana. Often, the short-term memory effect is paired with a reference to Dr. Heath's poor rhesus monkeys to imply that the condition is permanent.

10. Marijuana lingers in the body like DDT
This is also true but misleading. Cannabinoids are fat soluble as are innumerable nutrients and, yes, some poisons like DDT. For example, the essential nutrient, Vitamin A, is fat soluble but one never hears people who favor marijuana prohibition making this comparison.

11. There are over a thousand chemicals in marijuana smoke
Again, true but misleading. The 31 August 1990 issue of the magazine Science notes that of the over 800 volatile chemicals present in roasted COFFEE, only 21 have actually been tested on animals and 16 of these cause cancer in rodents. Yet, coffee remains legal and is generally considered fairly safe.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose
This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words, to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.
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by MatterofLiberty November 14, 2009 3:27 PM EST
Why are people worried about potency???? When smoking or Vaporizing Cannibus you are essentially trying to raise your active THC/blood level until you feel a noticible change in perception(ie your pain is allievated if your sick, or recreational users continue to their own point of perception difference which is refered to generically as "HIGH"). So even if the Cannibus isnt potent you can still get your THC/blood level just as high!!! All you got to do is smoke more!! Its kind of like drinking three bears in an hour vs having a few shots, .10% blood alchohol lvl is 10% blood alchohol lvl no matter what path you took to get there. And beer, just like cheap Mexican Cannibus, is much cheaper than its high concentration counter part(Sinsemilla aka Seedless Cannibus). If anything its healthier simply because your not ingesting or inhaling as much particle weight!!
by DJBLAZEN November 13, 2009 4:01 PM EST
go to google type in marijuana deaths....

MARIJUANA MYTHS
by Paul Hager
Chair, ICLU Drug Task Force

1. Marijuana causes brain damage
The most celebrated study that claims to show brain damage is the rhesus monkey study of Dr. Robert Heath, done in the late 1970s. This study was reviewed by a distinguished panel of scientists sponsored by the Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences. Their results were published under the title, Marijuana and Health in 1982. Heath's work was sharply criticized for its insufficient sample size (only four monkeys), its failure to control experimental bias, and the misidentification of normal monkey brain structure as "damaged". Actual studies of human populations of marijuana users have shown no evidence of brain damage. For example, two studies from 1977, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed no evidence of brain damage in heavy users of marijuana. That same year, the American Medical Association (AMA) officially came out in favor of decriminalizing marijuana. That's not the sort of thing you'd expect if the AMA thought marijuana damaged the brain.

2. Marijuana damages the reproductive system
This claim is based chiefly on the work of Dr. Gabriel Nahas, who experimented with tissue (cells) isolated in petri dishes, and the work of researchers who dosed animals with near-lethal amounts of cannabinoids (i.e., the intoxicating part of marijuana). Nahas' generalizations from his petri dishes to human beings have been rejected by the scientific community as being invalid. In the case of the animal experiments, the animals that survived their ordeal returned to normal within 30 days of the end of the experiment. Studies of actual human populations have failed to demonstrate that marijuana adversely affects the reproductive system.

3. Marijuana is a "gateway" drug-it leads to hard drugs
This is one of the more persistent myths. A real world example of what happens when marijuana is readily available can be found in Holland. The Dutch partially legalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, hard drug use-heroin and cocaine-have DECLINED substantially. If marijuana really were a gateway drug, one would have expected use of hard drugs to have gone up, not down. This apparent "negative gateway" effect has also been observed in the United States. Studies done in the early 1970s showed a negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. A 1993 Rand Corporation study that compared drug use in states that had decriminalized marijuana versus those that had not, found that where marijuana was more available-the states that had decriminalized-hard drug abuse as measured by emergency room episodes decreased. In short, what science and actual experience tell us is that marijuana tends to substitute for the much more dangerous hard drugs like alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

4. Marijuana suppresses the immune system
Like the studies claiming to show damage to the reproductive system, this myth is based on studies where animals were given extremely high-in many cases, near-lethal-doses of cannabinoids. These results have never been duplicated in human beings. Interestingly, two studies done in 1978 and one done in 1988 showed that hashish and marijuana may have actually stimulated the immune system in the people studied.

5. Marijuana is much more dangerous than tobacco
Smoked marijuana contains about the same amount of carcinogens as does an equivalent amount of tobacco. It should be remembered, however, that a heavy tobacco smoker consumes much more tobacco than a heavy marijuana smoker consumes marijuana. This is because smoked tobacco, with a 90% addiction rate, is the most addictive of all drugs while marijuana is less addictive than caffeine. Two other factors are important. The first is that paraphernalia laws directed against marijuana users make it difficult to smoke safely. These laws make water pipes and bongs, which filter some of the carcinogens out of the smoke, illegal and, hence, unavailable. The second is that, if marijuana were legal, it would be more economical to have cannabis drinks like bhang (a traditional drink in the Middle East) or tea which are totally non-carcinogenic. This is in stark contrast with "smokeless" tobacco products like snuff which can cause cancer of the mouth and throat. When all of these facts are taken together, it can be clearly seen that the reverse is true: marijuana is much SAFER than tobacco.
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by cgrosse November 13, 2009 3:35 PM EST
Also Charley just Google "marijuana news" and you'll see all of the arrests JUST TODAY of people posessing or privately growing a PLANT. Just ask the narco state and local enforcement, lawyers, judges and jail guards laughing all the way to the bank cashing their taxpayer funded payroll checks and the'll tell you prohibition rules like an IRON FIST.
Reply to this comment
by DJBLAZEN November 13, 2009 2:57 PM EST
the war on drugs...what a joke

wars can be won!!!!

the war on drugs is about as winnable as the war on terror

did you hear that....its the toilet flushing OUR money down the drain
Reply to this comment
by AttentionDeficit November 13, 2009 2:38 PM EST
Kind of ironic that this punk's name is GRASSley
Reply to this comment
by sarcasticfrog November 13, 2009 1:41 PM EST
I have to say this... reading the comments on the articles. That CAT is OUT of the bag on marijuana prohibition and the lies and racism that our government has instilled in those laws. Nixon to Anslinger.

No wonder why people are mad and for legalization/decriminalization of marijuana!!!
Reply to this comment
by cgrosse November 13, 2009 1:17 PM EST
"Judging from the tenor of the posts in the talkback section over the course of our two-day point-counterpoint, both sides appear locked and loaded in their conviction that their opponents are flat wrong."
Uh Charley I don't know what posts YOU were reading but 99.9% on the posts I read support the end of prohibition and how blantantly WRONG D. Evans arguments were.... go back and read again please.
Reply to this comment
by sarcasticfrog November 13, 2009 1:39 PM EST
Yes... wondering if he read the same comments and same article I read.
by OregonJames November 13, 2009 12:11 PM EST
Legalization is mostly a moot point around here. It is everywhere and nobody seems to care much. Sure, there are occassional busts, but they are mostly for show so the police agencies can continue to appear meaningful and receive funding, but it is common knowledge that these busts do nothing significant to stop the use of marijuana. The marijuana laws provide lawyers, the scum of the earth, a steady income, overload our legal system, and do nothing of value. It is time to simply legalize marijuana and the agricultural production of hemp.
Reply to this comment
by samantha1974 November 15, 2009 3:13 PM EST
Let me tell you a little story about a little town in Missouri. It was one of those towns where everyone is related. Well, the sheriff was up for re-election and it was brought to his attention that he hadn't busted anyone for drugs in quite awhile, mainly because they were all his relatives. So, he goes out to this hunting ranch HE HIMSELF owns and begins growing a bunch of pot. After the pot gets to be a couple of feet tall, he goes out and busts his own grow just in time for re-election and it works. Only a few people knew that was his ranch and his barn the pot was growing in. Yeah! It's all a big racket to con and fleece...errr...I mean, to protect and serve the citizens. LOL
by tedg22 November 13, 2009 10:30 AM EST
Thanks Cooper, it's guys like you that aren't afraid of talking about our wacky marijuana laws that are helping make a difference. Too many of us have either lost loved ones to our insane drug war or they were caught up in the criminal justice system. Marking a young man with a drug record all but guarantees he'll either become more of a criminal, or end up on welfare because he can't get a job or student loans with a drug conviction.
Reply to this comment
by KirkMuse November 13, 2009 9:50 AM EST
Is Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley on the payroll of the drug cartels?
Probably.

The notorious gangster Al Capone made most of his
illegal money from alcohol prohibition. Capone had hundreds of
politicians on his payroll. Is it unreasonable to suspect that the drug
cartels are following Capone's business model?

What type of politicians would the drug cartels have on their payroll?
Politicians who urge the status quo of drug prohibition, or politicians
who suggest that we re-legalize drugs to put the drug lords out of
business?
Reply to this comment
by tedg22 November 13, 2009 10:38 AM EST
It definitely makes you wonder. Republicans like Chuck Grassley will keep me from voting Republican until my party can get guys like him to shut their mouths.
by sarcasticfrog November 13, 2009 1:38 PM EST
Will keep me from voting for them until people like Chuck Grassley are not elected into office because of their dictatorship-like mentality.
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