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August 28, 2009 3:16 PM

Forensic Psych: Does Phillip Garrido Really Believe His Kids Cured Him of Pedophilia?

Posted by Carlin DeGuerin Miller
(CBS/ AP)
Contributed by Mathew W. Norman, an Atlanta-based forensic psychiatrist.

ATLANTA (CBS) How could four individuals, two of them captors and one of them an abducted little girl, come to live together as a family unit for eighteen years? If police have it right, not only did Phillip Garrido, Nancy Garrido, Jaycee Lee Dugard and Garrido's mother live as a family unit, but Phillip Garrido and Jaycee Lee Dugard also had two daughters together (now 11 and 15 years old).

As a forensic psychiatrist, I am interested in how this can happen and what each of them must have been thinking over all those years. Although I have examined none of these individuals, the information in the public domain provides a fascinating glimpse into an extraordinary life.

Let’s start with Phillip Garrido. Paroled as a convicted rapist in 1988. He allegedly abducted 11-year-old Jaycee Lee Dugard with the assistance of his wife, Nancy, in 1991. He then used Jaycee as his sex slave and impregnated her for the first time when she was 14 years old.

(AP Photo)
Photo: Jaycee Lee Dugard sometime before she was kidnapped in 1991.

Typically, in order to rape and kidnap, someone has to think about the victim as an object and not as a human being. This makes it easier. The perpetrator thinks only about his or her own feelings, wishes, and needs. They cannot think about what the victim may be thinking or feeling. They either have no capacity to empathize (e.g., a psychopath) or force themselves not to in order to commit the crimes.

Somewhere along the way, Phillip Garrido says that he changed.

In a jailhouse interview he said that change came after the birth of his second daughter with Dugard. People that worked with him stated that "in the last couple of years, he started to get into this strange religious stuff."

He blogged in 2007 that “THIS ALL BEGAN BY GOD REMOVING A PROBLEM FROM MY SHOULDERS THAT BEHAVIORAL SCIENTIST BELIEVE IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REMOVE. SINCE THEN MY LIFE HAS SEEN MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS ALLOWING ME TO STAND HERE TODAY A FREE MAN."

Does he believe that the birth of his second daughter "cured" him of pedophilia?

Phillip Garrido and Jaycee Lee Dugard spent years together. Behavioral scientists have long discussed how someone in captivity will start to identify with their captor, may come to like them, and even feel sorry for them when they are caught (i.e., the Stockholm Syndrome).

(AP Photo/El Dorado County Sheriffs)
Photo: Phillip Garrido's Aug. 27, 2009 mug shot, provided by the El Dorado County, Calif. Sheriff's office.

Did that also happen in reverse in this case? Did the Garridos come to think about Dugard as a person and start to actually care for her? It is certainly possible that the births of his own daughters changed his perspective on women and sex. Only those behavioral scientists that examine him and Dugard may ever know.

In a CBS' The Early Show interview, Dugard's stepfather, Carl Probyn, said his little girl, now a woman, felt guilty.

It would be hard to know if Dugard’s reported feelings of guilt are related to feeling sorry for her biological parents who lost her or her "adoptive" parents who are now under arrest "because of her."

Nancy Garrido and Phillip’s mother, both of whom lived in the house with Phillip Garrido, are more mysterious from a psychiatric perspective. Nancy was either a cold-hearted willing accomplice or an amazingly compliant individual. Some people are so complaint as to never question the requests or commands of an authority figure.

Phillip Garrido’s mother may have not known any truths about Dugan or could have been under the psychological control of her son, Phillip. She reportedly suffers from dementia. We don't know what role that might have played.

Based on his jailhouse interview, Garrido needs a psychiatric evaluation. Based on other victims similar to her, Dugard will need extensive help unraveling her feelings about all of this. Her daughters are in a class unto themselves. Their plight is so rare that we can barely speculate as their road ahead.

MORE ON CRIMESIDER
August 28, 2009 - Phillip Garrido: Jaycee Dugard's Girls "Slept in My Arms Every Single Night"
August 28, 2009 - Jaycee Dugard's Stepfather Had "No Idea...We'd Find Her Alive"
August 28, 2009 - Jaycee Lee Dugard Exclusive: Reporter Remembers Girl's Abduction 18 Years Ago
August 28, 2009 - Jaycee Lee Dugard and Two Children Kept in Suburban Backyard: Why Didn't Anyone Know?
August 27, 2009 - Jaycee Lee Dugard Kidnapped, Impregnated, and Forced to Live in Shed, Say Police
August 27, 2009 - Sex Offender and Wife Arrested in Jaycee Lee Dugard Disappearance
August 27, 2009 - Police 99 Percent Sure Jaycee Lee Dugard Found Alive
August 27, 2009 - Tahoe Girl Missing For 18 Years May Be Alive



(Courtesy: Matthew W. Norman, M.D.)
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Mathew W. Norman is a board-certified forensic psychiatrist performing criminal and civil evaluations, including criminal responsibility, competency to stand trial, and fitness for duty. He is located in Atlanta. Psychiatric Associates of Atlanta, LLC


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Add a Comment See all 20 Comments
by jazerelle October 8, 2009 1:54 PM EDT
Ok I am moving my comment to this slot. Jaycee learned to cope. She was stuck in that house with no one else to love. Children need to love. Abused childen tend to show more love for the abuser than the non abuser. How could she leave, where would she go and then she had children she could not leave behind. That tragic world became her life. Grown prisoners get institutionalized so why would not a young defenseless girl. Ok now for my previous post somewhere else with a few modifications - this is a time line.

A family yes but a twisted one. Does no one else see this.
1. Phillip likes little girls
2. Nancy likes to help Phillip.
3. Phillip steals a little girl with Nancy's help. Rapes her, Jaycee, and has a baby. She was 14 when she had Starlet so was probably preggies at 13. Baby given to Nancy. Jaycee could have been pregnant when Phillip went back to jail. If so, of course Nancy did not free her. Her child gift was coming.
ok If he was rehabilitated after Starlet was born there never would have been an Angel.
4. Phillip continues to rape Jaycee. Jaycee pregnant again at 17 has second little girl at 18. First little girl is now 3. If anyone knows about children, a three year old no longer looks like a baby, they look like "little girls" they act like "little girls." Phillip likes "Little Girls". Nancy has second gift. Jaycee not allowed to call her child her own. (so much for love there)
5. Phillip kicks Jaycee to the curb. She stated he has not had sex with her in years. Of course not. After second child she no longer looks like a little girl. With no way to exercise she was probably too soft now for Phillip. Two much of a woman's body. However, he never throws anything away - look at all the junk he keeps - and Jaycee is useful in running his business. She makes him money so he doesn't have to and so Nancy can retire. She is now a working slave instead of a sex slave. So Jaycee becomes like Nancy - a walking piece of furniture. However, Nancy could have always left, Jaycee has no hope for that and by now no desire. She cannot leave her babies, where would she go. This is now the only world she knows.
6. Phillip now sleeping (without sex apparently) with a little girl.
7. Second little girl no longer a baby and joins in Phillp's bed.
8. Phillip is in seventh heaven for a pedophile. He is now sleeping with TWO LITTLE GIRLS. He may not be having sex with them but you can be sure he is carressing them and most likely touching them in inappropriate ways. But they would not know any difference since they were brought up that way.
9. New story Jaycee seen riding in van 10 months after kidnapping. Now Phillip rides around with his two new tropies which he can show off because they are off the grid. They are not kidnapped. He can brag and be proud about - Look at my two Little Girls.
He has not changed. He is still into little girls. He is still a sicko.
He has no real love for them or for Jaycee. That was not a real family. He just never throws stuff away. He didn't want Jaycee to talk to the police, he was not concerned about her rights, he was concerned about being caught and losing his two little prizes.

And it is the same old story as before - "I have found God". Well he found the devil alright.
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by Lyzvon September 25, 2009 3:58 AM EDT
Why does everyone keep calling this monster "their father". He is NOT a father! A father does not rape little girls! A father does not kidnap little girls! A father not does brainwash little children into being "little captives" that he keeps in his back yard in a freakin tent! So, this pervert forcibly put his sperm into a 14 year old girls little body and that qualifies him the title of "father". No one should DARE humanize him like that because no "father" de-humanizes little girls like he did. He is a demon, a pig, anything but a father.
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by jazerelle October 8, 2009 1:55 PM EDT
Totally agree. The offspring of rapist have no father. They are actually just his new little girl toys.
by awise1 September 5, 2009 6:05 PM EDT
I read in another publication that Jaycee feels extreme guilt and has been very hard on herself for not calling her family realizing she had opportunities.

That is sad as she has no reason to feel guilty she is alive she survived unspeakable terror.

Hind sight is always 20/20 she was brainwashed completely and thoroughly.
I'm sure she complied and believed any and everything he said.
In time she will come to realize what a remarkable person she really is.
These children of rape may not be so loving towards him when they grow up and truly realize the monster their father is and the act's of rape involved in their conception.
So sad !!
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by toldyouso29 September 3, 2009 5:11 PM EDT
Her daughters are in a class unto themselves. Their plight is so rare that we can barely speculate as their road ahead."

No they aren't and their plight is not that rare, there are plenty of men who have sex with children, impregnate them then lose interest (as the females get too old) then either get more young girls to rape or take up with their own kids. The only thing rare about Duggard's case is that the police actually found a kidnapped and raped little girl, years later--alive. Lord only knows what happened to her kids.

As for the rarity lie: We have that dad in Austria who kept his daughter as a sex slave for over 32 years and had 3 kids by her. We have Shawn Hornbeck, who not only was kept as a sex slave for 5 years but helped procure and watch another boy who was taken for his captor.
Then we have the case of Alex, who in the 1970s was kidnapped and held for years by his sexual predator, only to escape, try to be okay, but ended up only 2 years later doing drugs, acting out then finally killing himself--and those are just the cases that made it to the news--not so rare after all.
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by zombieduck2010 September 2, 2009 12:48 AM EDT
I think the most interesting aspect in this whole thing are the two daughters. I've got two daughters myself, aged 10 and 8, so I can relate to the love parents and children feel towards each other. How will his daughters feel about him after they find out the truth, if they don't already know it? Will they still love their father? What about Jaycee's mother? Her daughter was taken when she was 11, and now she as two granddaughters, aged 15 and 11. However, those girls are the product of the kidnapper / rapist, and will always be a part of him. If he really changed, and took care of his daughters, loving them, then they will love him no matter what crimes he committed. That to me is the most interesting aspect of this story. The feelings of the two girls towards their father, the father towards the girls, and Jaycee's family towards the girls, and their father.
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by disgruntledblogger September 1, 2009 5:03 PM EDT
There is a registered sex offender in my zip code (one among many)and he has a Phillipino wife who is terrified of him. Before I knew his history I ate with them and if he spilled something on the floor he hollered at her in the kitchen to come pick it up, pointing at her and the food lying on the floor. She did. They have a 14 year old "daughter" and she sleeps with her mother, except when he tells the mother to go upstairs for the night. This is what his "wife" has told others. Everyone just shrugs when I say something, and the police say it is out of their town district. His "wife" is not a prisoner and yet she is totally his slave. I have no trouble understanding Jaycee's behavior.

I also think authorities may have been in on it. Maybe they also came to the backyard "parties".
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by kdadams1 September 9, 2009 2:37 PM EDT
This is insane!! No one should be treated this way, but what is really disturbing to me is when he makes the mother go upstairs to bed so he can be with the 14 year old daughter!!! No one finds this disturbing??? If the police say it is out of their district, then maybe they should quit being so damn lazy & report it to the proper authorities who are authorizied for that district! I have no idea where you live, but the citizens should be ashamed of themselves for just shrugging their shoulders when such an awful crime is going on. It is the communities responsibility to protect this young girl when her own parents can't. Please, don't stand by & shrug your shoulders like the rest of the town. Do what you can to help this young girl & don't give up. Keep making phone calls untill you find the proper authorities who will look into this case & KEEP CALLING!!! You have no idea how many lives you could change by being the one to put this pig away!!!
by susansheidy September 1, 2009 1:21 AM EDT
I hope the family sues the police department, the city and the police officer who didn't take the time to check this guy out when the neighbors called to report he was with two children. I know no amount of money will ever give her the life she will never know but money seems to always make people pay more attention to their jobs and making sure they perform their duties with more respect to the consequences. Oh, that cop needs to be fired too.
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by boyerschefsoncall August 30, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
Jaycee did or did not contact the authorities for many reasons. Maybe someone or many people within the local authorities were involved in Jaycees Hell

- They Kidnaps her in 1991 wearing an ankle tracking device
- They Possibly kidnaps Rapes, Injures and Kills many girls and children in the community while wearing an ankle tracking device
- Has a parole officer visit his residence often
- Had perverted parties that which the neighbors witnessed
- The neighbors knew he was a sexual predator
- The neighbors sometimes saw him with young girls
- He was know as Creepy Phil in the neighborhood
- Neighbors called the police about his perverted ways and that people were living in the yard, and a police officer checked it out
- He went to the FBI with the girls to give them information regarding this case

Am I the only one that thinks someone(s) with authority could have been involved in this evil
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by kdadams1 September 9, 2009 2:43 PM EDT
I'm sorry, but I don't know if there are a lot of facts stated in this comment. I have been following this case very closely & have not read most of the "facts" stated here.
by stryker54 August 30, 2009 6:00 PM EDT
As a father of a 11 year old daughter, my heart goes out to Jaycee and her children. She has a very difficult road ahead of her and her children. I hope God does guide them and comforts them in this life, they will need it.
As far as this scum bag and his wife goes, simple solution. Death penalty without the appeal process.They are guilt like a thief caught with the goods. In this cause a child. The worst offense to any human what these 2 POS did. Get rid of them.
As far as the state of Kansas and California should be sued up the behind for letting this guy out. It is time someone answers to why this jerk was not caught, even after the nieghbors turn them in. The system failed big time and even tho it would be hard to ssay who failed because there are a few in this case, they should make sure Jaycee and her children are taken care of for life, not these two that committeed the crime, which we will probably support for life.
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by medusamouse August 30, 2009 1:01 PM EDT
mtwyogal, forget the math--can you even read? The very next sentence in the article (after the one you've quoted) very clearly states that the "household" consisted of Jaycee, the two Garridos, and Mr. Garrido's elderly mother. Now, I may not be the math whiz that you are, but that clearly totals FOUR.

Of the four, two were captors, and one was captured. The fourth was neither. Reading comprehension: you're doing it wrong. Makes it kind of hard to take the rest of your comment seriously.
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by mtwyogal August 30, 2009 12:07 PM EDT
"How could four individuals, two of them captors and one of them an abducted little girl, come to live together as a family unit for eighteen years?" Ok doc, you may be a psychiatrist, but you are obviously not a mathematician: two captors + one abducted little girl = THREE individuals. Kind of hard to take the rest of your blog seriously.
"He blogged in 2007 that ?THIS ALL BEGAN BY GOD REMOVING A PROBLEM FROM MY SHOULDERS THAT BEHAVIORAL SCIENTIST BELIEVE IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REMOVE. SINCE THEN MY LIFE HAS SEEN MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS ALLOWING ME TO STAND HERE TODAY A FREE MAN."
Does he believe that the birth of his second daughter "cured" him of pedophilia?"
More likely he got religulous, and believes that god forgave him for his actions, and protected him from arrest. Religion and god are used all the time to justify and/or excuse evil behavior.

"When one person suffers from delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion."
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by U2rLost August 30, 2009 6:23 PM EDT
Not defending the psych nor anyone else here, but 4 people included the criminal's MOM. He's not religious, he's mentally warped. I don't know why, but mentally ill folks frequently have either/or religious & sexual delusions.
by Lyzvon September 25, 2009 3:47 AM EDT
People will use anything to excuse their own behavior. God in no way excuses sin from a man or a woman by means of forgiveness. That is why it is called forgiveness, not "excuses". This is the difference, the Bible teaches us to be accountable for our actions, and to be accountable to one another for our sins. It teaches us that we should obey the laws set before us from those appointed on earth (Kinds, leaders, Judges ect.). The Bible teaches us that we are to own up to our sins, not just ask for them to be forgiven- clearly this monster did not do so. Forgiveness is not a free pass and God knows the difference between someone who truly feels remorse for their crimes and pays for it and someone who doesn't. Forgiveness is for the spirit, the soul, not for the physical being. God still believes in the consequences and punishment that one must and should live up to. True repentance cannot be fulfilled simply by asking for forgiveness and then continuing the sin. People need to stop blaming God and religion for crazy people just like crazy people need to stop using God and religion to excuse their crimes. People need to actually read the Bible before they accuse God or religion of anything or assume they know what they're talking about.
by Writeorwrong August 29, 2009 3:45 PM EDT
Well, so much for the belief that we live in a police state where the government has too much knowledge and too much power; computer dossiers on every citizen etc.

No doubt anti-religionists will (ab)use this as just more evidence that religion is the root of all evil. But Garrido was apparently already messed up before he got religion. I've been hanging around churches for 32 years and though there are definitely some rotten apples, most of the Christian people I have known have been at the opposite end of the spectrum from this guy.

The story gets me to wondering: if in fact the girl was imprisoned more psychologically than physically, who or what has some of the rest of us in some sort of prison of our own mind?
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by van34 August 28, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
To Mathew W. Norman,
How can you suggest that this young lady, abducted at age eleven, was a willing participant in this so called family unit. That is discusting on your behalf, to assume such an awful situation. I would assume that she was not a willing candidate, but a forced victim, who eventually was brainwashed. Or possibly, she knew to cooperate to survive. It is surprising that you would put this in your article. If this statement affected a complete stranger to the case, how do you think it would affect a person affiliated to this miracle. My thoughts and prayers go out to Jaycee and her family. May God bless you with strength to find your true place in this world Jaycee.
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by BuckyFellini August 31, 2009 6:56 PM EDT
Van34,
Perhaps you should look at the situation from a psychological perspective (and with knowledge of the workings of the human brain as opposed to your personal opinion) and learn to better comprehend what you read before posting such ignorant rants. Dr. Norman very specifically mentioned the notion of Stockholm Syndrome which is not exactly uncommon in such situations. It's a defense mechanism, just as pretty much any other response could be.

If you consider some girl being abducted and hidden for nearly 2 decades to be part of some "miracle," you're insane. Perhaps the fact that she was found alive is unbelievable and unexpected, but I'd certainly consider ANY situation involving the kidnapping of a child to be anything even slightly resembling miraculous. The fact that she was found is extraordinary but if you attribute her discovery to being a miracle of some higher power, you need to stop being so selective and attribute the initial devastation that allowed for the miracle to that power as well.
by BuckyFellini August 31, 2009 6:58 PM EDT
TYPO:

The sentence shouldn't be "I'd certainly consider ANY situation involving the kidnapping of a child to be anything even slightly resembling miraculous," but "I'd certainly consider ANY situation involving the kidnapping of a child to NOT be anything even slightly resembling miraculous."
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