Horserace
June 21, 2008 12:20 PM

Obama: I'll Fight To Strip Telecom Immunity From FISA

(CBS/AP) - Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., issued a statement in support of the House's update of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, but said he would try to strip a provision granting immunity to telecommunication companies when the bill comes to a vote in the Senate next week.

The House approved a compromise bill Friday that would set new electronic surveillance rules that would also shield telecoms from lawsuits arising from their participation in the government's warrantless eavesdropping on telephone and computer lines in the United States.

The government eavesdropped on American phone and computer lines for almost six years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks without permission from the FISA Court, the special panel established for that purpose under the original 1978 law.

Some 40 lawsuits have been filed against the telecommunications companies by groups and individuals who say the Bush administration illegally monitored their phone calls or e-mails.

Obama said there is "little doubt" that the Bush Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies, "has abused [its] authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the required court orders."

"Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.

"[The bill] does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses."

The House approved the legislation 293-129.

The White House had threatened to veto any surveillance bill that did not also shield the companies.

Critics say granting immunity to telecoms would scrap the pending lawsuits and prevent any public airing of details about the government's surveillance activities.

Last February, when an earlier version of the FISA bill came to a vote, Obama voted for an amendment to strip the telecom immunity provision from the bill. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) voted in favor of keeping immunity for the telecoms.

Speaking in an interview to be aired on Bloomberg television this weekend, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said that he may schedule a separate vote on stripping immunity from the bill, although he expressed pessimism about its success.

"Probably we can't take that out of the bill, but I'm going to try," Reid told "Political Capital with Al Hunt."
Tags:
FISA ,
foreign intelligence surveillance act ,
obama ,
warrantless wiretap ,
surveillance ,
telecom immunity
Topics:
Barack Obama
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by seah5 June 21, 2008 12:48 PM PDT
If the telecommunication companies are do a job asked by the government, and for the government for national security. Why should they be able to be sued over it.

They should refuse to do it if they have a chance of being sued.

Seems like the Democrats want their cake and be able to eat it too.
Creating a catch 22 for telecommunication companies.

Unless the Democrats plan on taking them over also and nationalizing them.



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by watcher269-2009 June 21, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
Go O''Bama Go!
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by mcvet June 21, 2008 1:15 PM PDT
I''ve lived in or around Chicago for a long time and folks this young man WILL return the rule of Law to the Presidency! THAT''s just a fact! NO ONE in this nation should be beyond the rule of law and NO OFFICIAL should be able to effect the rights of the people WITHOUT Oversight!! SIEG HEIL BUSH!!
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by toldyouso12 June 21, 2008 1:15 PM PDT
And how did HRC vote on the telecom issue? Why.. she REFUSED to vote at all, even though she was known to be in Washington DC at the time and had decided not to show up to prevent an "abstention vote" from being played out. We know why McCain wants retro active immunity granted for Bush''s illegal wire tapping--gotta wonder why Hillary did not want to vote on it one way or another--even for Illegal immigration, she at least showed up to abstain....LOL
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by mcvet June 21, 2008 1:18 PM PDT
If the telecommunication companies are do a job asked by the government, and for the government for national security. Why should they be able to be sued over it.

They should refuse to do it if they have a chance of being sued.

Seems like the Democrats want their cake and be able to eat it too.
Creating a catch 22 for telecommunication companies.

Unless the Democrats plan on taking them over also and nationalizing them.




Posted by seah5 at 12:48 PM : Jun 21, 2008
+ rep

I don''t get it!! Where do you Fascist propose to stop? We didn''t elect a KING or Dictator MORON! It''s not like we put up a Law that couldn''t be met or understood. Now IF the Little Nazi broke the law AND Corporations did NOT report that violation of the law, THEY are guilty. This is NOTHING new... It''s not rocket science either. The RULE of law we are discussing has survived for over 200 years...until the Fascist took over and suddenly it''s to much of a problem... this from a Pathetic Piece of Human Trash some still call a President who LIED us into a War!! SIEG HEIL BUSH!!
Reply to this comment
by greeneyes222 June 21, 2008 2:01 PM PDT
Try? There is no "try", only "do."

Are we supposed to believe what Obama says this time?

Why?

Reply to this comment
by ArchieHaase June 21, 2008 2:04 PM PDT
This war needs to be foght against terrorists, not innocent Americans.
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by moderate-guy June 21, 2008 2:17 PM PDT
Well spoken for the mouthpiece of the trial lawyers'' party. Someday the dems will realize that all the trial lawyers'' money doesn''t make up for the support they lose from middle America.

It was never the telecoms jobs to verify the government was following the law. Especially in the murky areas of FISA law.
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by greatdrivew June 21, 2008 2:31 PM PDT
Gosh, Democrats under the "leadership" of Pelosi and Reid are giving Bush and Cheney everything they want? What''s new? I just wonder how much pork those entrenched pieces of craap Pelosi and Reid get this time?

This immunity provision reeks of corruption, cover-up and pandering to special interests. And yes, I''m talking about Democrats. We all knew the GOP is a reeking corpse, and now we see the DNC is too.

Barack said the DNC is his party, well it''s time for him to put up or shut up. In other words, he better call James Clyburn, the Majority Whip, and tell old Jimmy to get off his lazy, entrenched, good-for-nothing asss.

Unless Barack wants me and many others to begin calling him out on a full time basis for being the biggest charade of all time, then he better get this immunity removed!!!

I''ve been quiet about several other dealings, statements and interactions barack''s had over the past couple months, but I will not be quiet about immunity. I will not!!
Reply to this comment
by kenbomc June 21, 2008 2:32 PM PDT
Vote for McCain -because George Bush says so.
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by lorax22 June 21, 2008 2:35 PM PDT
The Constitution is very clear, the American people are to be safe from "warrantless" search and wiretapping. Anyone who watches any television, knows that the police have to get a warrant to wiretap or search. In this case, private companies, telecoms, were asked to spy on Americans. To be legal, the telecoms simply had to ask for a court order and the government had to give it to them. The FISA courts were set up for that specific purpose - for court orders in cases of national security. The President chose to bypass this law and lie about it - grounds for impeachment. The telecoms spied on Americans without a court order. It is for the courts to decide whether they were criminally negligent. This bill would dismiss these cases. If Obama "tries" to get the immunity clause out of the bill, my opinion of him will, raise, a little. If he succeeds, my opinion of him will rise a lot. I would like to see him filibuster this bill. It would give him a platform to expose the criminality of this administration while at the same time educate the public how important our Constitution is and how this administration and its enablers in Congress have undermined our basic freedoms.
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by jptemp2001 June 21, 2008 2:38 PM PDT
It''s odd that the first comments are multiple spam attacks on Obama with no intelligence or merit. Are the campaign attack dogs that quick?

Frankly I cannot imagine any core conservative would approve of the US Government spying on American Citizens without oversight - especially when there has been no court cases or trials proving conspiracy of terrorism.

If those large telecom companies illegally monitored competitors wouldn''t that be a crime?

The fact that popularly elected officials don''t seem interested in uncovering possibly unconstitutional actions by both public and private parties isn''t news; that Obama speaks out against it but McCain votes for it speaks volumes.

These cases should go to the Judiciary, the traditional third check on the powers of the Congress and Executive Branch, how does voting to hide the dirty laundry serve our country better?
Reply to this comment
by casidi June 21, 2008 2:44 PM PDT
Stop hatin. EVERYThING Wright said was true! Surely YOU can''t be just finding out how deceiving and manipulative America can be! Even so, Rev. Wright NEVER said he didn''t love America. John mccain has said that he never loved American until he was captured!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sd8IiK6KkW4

Is this the type of person we want managing our precious country? I don''t think so!

Vote Obama!!
Reply to this comment
by mikeking1949 June 21, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
If a business was asked by the President in time of war to aide their country, any prudent court will allow the defense against liability based upon the business establishing the "demand" and their actions in fulfilling that demand.

Defense requires disclosure of cause, instructions and actions taken in reliance on the President. If these are reasonable under the circumstances, liability is transferred to the source authority (President).

Immunity eliminates the need for a defense to define responsibility. Therefore it is in the best interests of the public to hear the case and deny immunity.

However, it is very likely that the Democratic Congressional Leadership was at least informed and therefore culpable in the Presidential abuse of authority.

It is germane whether any complicity was before the fact or after the fact.

Therefore, Congressmen who had any prior knowledge MUST abstain. In essence if the voter is tainted, voting business immunity is both self-preserving and obstruction of justice.

Since Obama is "clean" on this it is logical for him to vote for business liability. McCain is in favor of immunity.
Reply to this comment
by casidi June 21, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
John Mccain said he never really loved America. What a shame!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4x7b5M2_8bY
Reply to this comment
by obamdizle June 21, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
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by nomorewars June 21, 2008 2:48 PM PDT
To Hell with nobama, Thank god I Left the democratic party last year, they have zero substance now and the republicans sucked too

I''m a libertarian now.
Reply to this comment
by jptemp2001 June 21, 2008 2:53 PM PDT
It''s odd that the first comments are multiple spam attacks on Obama with no intelligence or merit. Are the campaign attack dogs that quick?

Frankly I cannot imagine any core conservative would approve of the US Government spying on American Citizens without oversight - especially when there has been no court cases or trials proving conspiracy of terrorism.

If those large telecom companies illegally monitored competitors wouldn''t that be a crime?

The fact that popularly elected officials don''t seem interested in uncovering possibly unconstitutional actions by both public and private parties isn''t news; that Obama speaks out against it but McCain votes for it speaks volumes.

These cases should go to the Judiciary, the traditional third check on the powers of the Congress and Executive Branch, how does voting to hide the dirty laundry serve our country better?
Reply to this comment
by barocalto June 21, 2008 3:01 PM PDT
Obama is just another say anything politician that will say anything to get elected.
The statement of Rev Wright, Obama pastor and mentor for 20 plus years.
And You thought he was different...
Reply to this comment
by lorax22 June 21, 2008 3:08 PM PDT
This bill is a two-fold attack on the Constitution. First, the Constitution protects us against unwarranted search. To obtain a warrant, even from a secret court, is not the same as approving a procedure - which this bill allows as a substitute. Second, the Constitution prohibits ex post facto bills - that is an act of Congress which changes the criminality or legal consequence of an action already taken. The telecoms already neglected to ask to see a warrant for the requested wiretaps. There are already cases filed against the telecoms. Congress is prohibited from changing the law to retroactively excuse past criminal behavior. The warrantless wiretapping is un-Constitutional and so is the ex post facto immunity.

The Bush Administration is engaged in criminal activity. The Republican Party are accomplices and the Democrats that support this are accomplices after-the-fact.

If Obama, or any Senator filibusters this bill, they will go down in history as a hero.

Someone needs to defend our Constitution.

Reply to this comment
by blahblahbla5 June 21, 2008 3:28 PM PDT
The president Bush has veto''d what like three or four bills. I wish people would ask why they are going to bat to prevent telecoms from being sued. Clearly the telecoms did things that were patently and grossly illegal, so the question is whether the people want to just forget this national nightmare, the worst president in our history, or have reconciliation. It''s basically a test of courage; do we have the guts to know how badly we have been raped by this administration? The republicans do not have the courage, and it looks like the democrats don''t either. And the People certainly don''t. So sad, you chickens reading this.
Reply to this comment
by liberalme June 21, 2008 3:33 PM PDT
Obama is just another say anything politician that will say anything to get elected.
The statement of Rev Wright, Obama pastor and mentor for 20 plus years.
And You thought he was different...

Posted by Barocalto at 03:01 PM

Get over yourself--are you dumb enough to think McLame will do better???

Bush is showing him the ropes and will have a backhanded influence in his reign of terror if he gets in!!

Jerk
Reply to this comment
by liberalme June 21, 2008 3:35 PM PDT
John Mccain said he never really loved America. What a shame!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4x7
b5M2_8bY


Posted by casidi

And he said that many times in 99
Reply to this comment
by edgarr767 June 21, 2008 3:36 PM PDT
This Republic is perishing because of weak-kneed, complicit Democrats. A sick compromise crafted by the morally bankrupt Nancy Pelosi and supported by Harry (we''ll try, but not too hard) Reid.
Thank God for Russ Feingold, who, unlike these clowns, supports the Consitution.
Reply to this comment
by sandycat2 June 21, 2008 4:05 PM PDT
I live in Illinois too, Mc Vet and Chicago is a slimehole of political scandal and corruption. Obama lied about how much money Rezko raised and contributed to his canpaign not to mention Rezko helped him get his house in Hyde Park. Il governor Blagoevich also came from Chicago and is linked to Rezko and will probably go to jail. So I don''t have any confidence that OPbama is any different than others from Chicago politics. Hey, maybe if Obama gets elected Pres, he''ll fly to work every day from his home in Chicago the way our governor is doing.
Reply to this comment
by undermyboot June 21, 2008 4:36 PM PDT
"We were attacked by nazi thugs that don''''t care a bit about our rights ..."

Posted by emperorlotku at 04:14 PM : Jun 21, 2008
----

The only ones acting like "nazi thugs" is the Bush administration. Their complete contempt for our Constitution and the rule of law is disgusting.

That morons like this would support dictatorial powers for a president s not surprising. There are many cowards who are so afraid of our liberty that they would willingly give away the 4th Amendment and the rest so they can cower in their corner and feel "safe."

These people deserve nothing but our contempt. They are traitors and scoundrels. They cannot understand that we can be both free and safe. They buy into the rhetoric of the puppet masters who pull their strings- the wacko right radio and the disingenuous "fair and Balanced" Fake News.

The FISA court process worked. That Bush and his traitors bypassed the court is the problem. But it is too complex for morons like these posters to understand. How pathetic they are. How un-American. How stipid. How "nazi".
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by undermyboot June 21, 2008 4:37 PM PDT
Secret surveillance, secret police, secret courts, secret laws, secret executive orders, special Presidential powers, eviscerated judiciary, cowed populace, no legal recourse allowed for citizens, civil liberties allowed only as convenient for the government.

Welcome to China, Communist (and current) Russia, Burma, Iran, Syria, and the United States of America.
Reply to this comment
by timmb3 June 21, 2008 4:38 PM PDT
Obama is behind this FISA sell-out. Really, does anyone think that this FISA deal wasn''t run by him first? He now gets to say "I was against it before I was for it."

Way to look strong Obama. BTW-Thanks for back stabbing those of us who care about our rights and Bush''s criminal spying.
Reply to this comment
by smurfcrusher June 21, 2008 4:39 PM PDT
OUTSTANDING!!!

Ethical leadership - how unusual and refreshing for a change!

I couldn''t care if all the telecoms are sued out of business for their illegal acts. This excludes Quest of course, who didn''t collapse into a pile of goo at the Administration''s illegal request to spy on Americans.

Instead of wasting resources conducting covert and illegal wiretaps on Americans, the administration should be hunting for Osama Bin Laden and helping the troops (The VA in particular, which is overwhelmed with the wounded).

Hats off to Senator Obama!
Reply to this comment
by kenbomc June 21, 2008 4:45 PM PDT


Posted by emperorlotku at 04:14 PM : Jun 21, 2008
--------------------------------

Bush was to dumb to listen to his national security briefing before taking the oath of office about a terrorist threat of hijacking planes. The thing about the wiretaps -they are illegal. If duma*s Bush would have not broken a constitutional law -everything would be fine. The constitution is there for a reason -dumba*s. So a president, like Bush, cannot abuse his powers (check and balance). If he actually tried to have a ''warrantless'' bill passed back then -it probabaly would have passed -no problem. Bush is plain stupid. And you are a gullible, goofy, far-righty, that believes everything Bush and McSame tells you.
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by spokanite61 June 21, 2008 4:51 PM PDT
For the first time that I know of Obama has put politics ahead of principle by failing to challange and if necessary fillibuster against this retroactive immunity. The fig leaf of doing what he can to stop it show an incredible lack of committment and a joining of the cowards Harry and Nancy in capitulating to the Bush terror machine.
Obama has lost my faith and my trust. I appeal to all serious liberal thinkers to STOP sending him money. It is the only way we have to get the message through to his campaign
Reply to this comment
by undermyboot June 21, 2008 4:59 PM PDT
I appeal to all serious liberal thinkers to STOP sending him money. It is the only way we have to get the message through to his campaign

Posted by Spokanite61 at 04:51 PM : Jun 21, 2008
-------

ROFLMAO - Are you serious? Make a point? The only "point" you are making is to elect John McBush President.

You are either a liberal moron or a Republican neocon trying to be clever. Either way- f''ing stupid.
Reply to this comment
by siri2k June 21, 2008 5:02 PM PDT
Obama will see not one more dime from me unless he stops this in it''s Senate tracks! End of story. End of any and all donations, and I''ve been generous!
siri
Reply to this comment
by bobbipal June 21, 2008 5:11 PM PDT
Look folks, I would have hoped that he came out stronger on this too, but there ARE politics to consider if we are going to get back cotrol of this country. The fact is that the Dems can''t be known as the party that blocked this bill and "made our country less safe." We, the people who are educated and understand the true horrid ramiifications of this, get it. I don''t think the majority of the country will. They will only see the Rovian spin that Dems are soft on terrorism. I think Obama is playing it exactly how he needs to. He is firmly against it (which is more than I can so for most of our "representative") and he will fight to ge *** stripped from the bill. He has also been very clear that, when president, he WILL go after the lawbreakers from the past administration.
I hate this, but he has to be smart about getting elected. He is a brilliant man, and he will weather this, get in office, and do us proud by bring back the justice and freedom we so badly need.
Please support mr. Obama as he goes forward and remember that he is only a man, and there are sometimes politics (aka compromise) involved. He is only compromising because he believes that as president he will fix this.
Reply to this comment
by siri2k June 21, 2008 5:12 PM PDT
Obama will see not one more dime from me unless he stops this in it''s Senate tracks! End of story. End of any and all donations, and I''ve been generous!
siri
Reply to this comment
by siri2k June 21, 2008 5:12 PM PDT
Obama will see not one more dime from me unless he stops this in it''s Senate tracks! End of story. End of any and all donations, and I''ve been generous!
siri
Reply to this comment
by siri2k June 21, 2008 5:15 PM PDT
Obama will see not one more dime from me unless he stops this in it''s Senate tracks! End of story. End of any and all donations, and I''ve been generous!
siri
Reply to this comment
by vrgeo June 21, 2008 5:15 PM PDT
This is not the country I grew up in. We no longer represent hope and freedom. The world does not look up to us the terrorists won on 9/11 due to the ineptness of President Bush. The Constitution is ignored. The Constitution does not apply...the Geneva Convention does not apply. The President labels you an enemy combatant and you can be tortured and be detained indefinitely. We are on the path to Orwell''s 1984. This is Barrack Obama''s Rubicon. He can show he is a leader and champion a filibuster, or he can show us we can look forward to the same old politics. I am 48 years old and this will be the first election I sit out if Obama does not show us he is a leader.
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by KYJurisDoctor June 21, 2008 5:18 PM PDT
If I was a Democrat, I would be ANGRY at the ineptitude displayed by the Congressional Democrats.
Reply to this comment
by spokanite61 June 21, 2008 5:24 PM PDT
I completely agree that ''This is Barrack Obama''''s Rubicon.'' I am not a moron or a Republican. What I am is a 61 yr old life long supporter of the Constitution and of those who would defend it. To those who believe that political expediency requiers that we and Obama go along with the fiction that giving up just a little of our liberty doesnt matter, I say tell that to all of our fathers, sons, and now daughters who have died to defend it. To those who say we will be seen as soft, I say stop buying into the Republican lies and grow a set.
Reply to this comment
by June 21, 2008 5:27 PM PDT
GO OBAMA!!!! You''ll get into office and then you can set some things right!!!
Reply to this comment
by rowdywicca June 21, 2008 5:40 PM PDT
What a crock! All the legislation in the world won''t stop anybody from listening in on your telephone conversations if they want to.
Reply to this comment
by oooooomar June 21, 2008 5:42 PM PDT
Where did this bunch of leaches come from?
There are very few on this post that have a clue on what they are talking about.

What hand out are you trying to get?
Whose pocket do you want to stick your hand in?
Reply to this comment
by carlie0057 June 21, 2008 5:44 PM PDT
I, too, have been a life-long Democrat. I''m 57 now, and watching (and volunteering with) this election with every fiber of my being!! I support Obama - but the way to get to the WH is NOT,imo, by crapping on the Constitution, and dumping the 4th Amendment out the window. I expect better of Obama on this one!! He had best do some REAL fighting on that Senate floor next week - or I will be more than disappointed !!!
Reply to this comment
by pabul-2009 June 21, 2008 6:01 PM PDT
"If I was a Democrat, I would be ANGRY at the ineptitude displayed by the Congressional Democrats."
As it is, you''ll just have to angry at the ineptitude of the rest of them.
Reply to this comment
by June 21, 2008 6:01 PM PDT
The problem with people who think FISA needs to be changed is that the FISA court only denied like 2 or 3 wiretaps during it''s entire lifetime!! It didn''t state that the President or surveillance agencies had to wait, hat in hand, until the court said okay before they tapped... it said that they could tap whatever they deemed to be necessary and just had to check in with the court within like 3 days. And As I said before, only 2 or 3 have ever been rejected!!
Reply to this comment
by cycle3man June 21, 2008 6:18 PM PDT
"Probably we can''t take that out of the bill, but I''m going to try," Reid told "Political Capital with Al Hunt."

Hey Harry, You sure enthused about stripping the bill????

You really suck!!
Reply to this comment
by lebec-2009 June 21, 2008 6:27 PM PDT
Those who have been listening to Obama''s message have heard that it is about no more "politics as usual" and about empowering US. It is clear that WE expect him to do more than "try" to remove the immunity provision from the legislation. He needs to LEAD a filibuster for us and succeed. This FISA bill has come up 3 times now. Each time is has more CYA clauses, but each time it does essentially the same thing. Each time more citizens are upset about it. It appears that this time there is enough CYA that most representatives could vote for it, because CYA matters more than upholding the Constitution. And this time there is much more of a popular backlash than they expected. A real leader would champion this cause and convince the country of the necessity of rule of law and set the fear machine back on its ***. That''s change we can believe in. Sadly, to date, Obama has never shown leadership of this type, preferring to avoid the hard stands (like being 1 of only 3 senators who didn''t vote on the FISA bill the last time it came to a vote, check the record).
Don''t tell me McCain is worse.. the point is... who can support Obama with any enthusiasm if he sells out the Constitution when he doesn''t have to.
Reply to this comment
by barocalto June 21, 2008 6:37 PM PDT
You know what I was thinking the administration looks at website like these where comments are left, uses the power it has to figure out who each handle belongs too, which wouldn''t be hard. Then after it knows Pres Bush himself listens in on your phone calls and checks into how many porn sites you visit and he is keep track of it to show you mother.
Reply to this comment
by lebec-2009 June 21, 2008 6:37 PM PDT
A note on why "trying" won''t strip immunity from the FISA legislation and why filibustering is the only avenue to making a change:

To "try" to remove it means to offer an ammendment to have it removed, which requires 51 votes to get it passed. With Democratic complicity and nervousness, there are not 51 votes.

If a filibuster is started, it takes 60 votes to cut off discussion. This would require 10 Democrats to oppose the principled stand of the soon-to-be nominee of the party 2 months before the convention. I think he can pull that off. Especially with the help of Dodd and Feingold, the filibusters of January.
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