Comments on: Sweat Lodge Death Investigation Turns to Self-Help Guru James Arthur Ray

[cicibaby09]

I've been to a James Ray event. While I believe that he is genuine in his intent to better peoples' lives, I do not agree with his tactics. The article says that participants were "encouraged" but not forced to remain in the lodge, but you should know how he "encourages" participants. His tactics are hard-nosed, over-the-top, and not respectful of the individual.

People believe in him, and tells them they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT succeed if they do not sign up for his retreats, coaching, or buy his books. He tells his audiences that his is the ONLY way to have a successful life and if they don't follow his teachings they "do not want" success. He openly pities and publicly mocks those who leave his seminars without buying anything or leave early--"Well, we all know those who just don't want success."

For those who have shelled out $10,000 to have this man transform their lives--to anyone who "absolutely" promises success--his techniques must have worked. Having been to one of his events, I can just hear what he told his participants: "You can leave, if you want to, but you are 'THISCLOSE' to having all the success and 'Harmonic Wealth TM' you desire."

Besides, with the participants jammed in the lodge like sardines (the dismantled lodge in the photo does not look like a structure that could hold nearly 60 people), how could anyone possibly leave if they feel unwell?

What saddens me most about this tragic incident is that Ray left the state. His website says that "a friend" was staying with those injured. Why did he not stay himself? That, to me, speaks volumes.

[arielne]

This is very frustrating.i am a native woman who has been raised aroud ceremony. this was the result of ignorance and greed. these people were exploited by someone who was uneducated and selfish. in my culture the men and women who run sweats have earned that position, trained thoroughly to properly lead our people through ceremonies.

[sbendana]

Very well said Synaya! I stopped going to Jame's events a year ago when he turned the last one I attended, on a pure marketing campaign, very greedy and arrogant. Thanks, Sergio.

[synaya]

A MESSAGE FOR JAMES RAY since his blog is blocked for comment: The recent Sweat Lodge incident reveals 5 areas of "Disharmonic" Wealth.....1) SPIRITUAL Arrogance, 2) FINANCIAL Greed, 3) MENTAL Manipulation, 4) PHYSICAL Lack of Safety, and 5) RELATIONAL Irresponsibility. James, why did you CHOOSE to run from the scene when your loyal participants - your JRI family - needed you most? Your actions speak louder than words. You exhibited self-centered preservation and lacked being a responsible and compassionate leader in the face of adversity. I'm still in shock and I wasn't even there. As a former participant of four workshops, I stopped attending upon sensing the dark energies of greed and arrogance taking over. I'm glad I trusted my intuition. Please know I do wish you well James because, despite these words, deep inside I know you are a good man on your spiritual path of learning and maturing... and quite frankly, this incident is a MAJOR wake up call. Regarding your deleted twitter message.....What in YOU, James Arthur Ray, needs to die in order for new life to emerge???? My deepest compassion and sympathy goes to the participants who trusted you and unknowingly were in harms way. Blessings to all involved on your journeys to harmonic health and healing. May truth, light and personal integrity prevail. Blessings.

[cicibaby09]

I've been to a James Ray event. While I believe that he is genuine in his intent to better peoples' lives, I do not agree with his tactics. The article says that participants were "encouraged" but not forced to remain in the lodge, but you should know how he "encourages" participants. His tactics are hard-nosed, over-the-top, and not respectful of the individual.

People believe in him, and tells them they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT succeed if they do not sign up for his retreats, coaching, or buy his books. He tells his audiences that his is the ONLY way to have a successful life and if they don't follow his teachings they "do not want" success. He openly pities and publicly mocks those who leave his seminars without buying anything or leave early--"Well, we all know those who just don't want success."

For those who have shelled out $10,000 to have this man transform their lives--to anyone who "absolutely" promises success--his techniques must have worked. Having been to one of his events, I can just hear what he told his participants: "You can leave, if you want to, but you are 'THISCLOSE' to having all the success and 'Harmonic Wealth TM' you desire."

Besides, with the participants jammed in the lodge like sardines (the dismantled lodge in the photo does not look like a structure that could hold nearly 60 people), how could anyone possibly leave if they feel unwell?

What saddens me most about this tragic incident is that Ray left the state. His website says that "a friend" was staying with those injured. Why did he not stay himself? That, to me, speaks volumes.

[susannahsss]

Wow...thank you for saying all you did. I attended one of his seminars in San Diego Aug. 2008 and so much of what he said was great. But I do agree with all you said. I paid a lot of money and was trying to look past all the pressure etc. and get something out of the weekend. I had a great time. But, he became a little dark at the end (crying and all - just dark and weird) and I chose not to attend another one. I lost two friends at that seminar and two girls went home and asked for a divorce. I got the feeling James thinks he's (or wants to be) God. I got so much out of that weekend - I now completely understand that there is truly only one God. And I am going to save a lot of money and stick with Him!!

[NewAgeRage]

Coming from someone who was deep into this New Age stuff at one time, I can really see this kind of thing happening. I read a comment from someone who had been there and he said that he was sad for the families of those who died but that he believed that they have chosen to die this way. This is the kind of garbage brain-washing that you commonly find in these types of settings. What the Secret people don't tell you is that they believe that every single thing that happens to you has been chosen by you....and that includes everything terrible. They insist that people who got raped chose to be raped. There are all sorts of sick and distorted ways of putting it. They will say things like "They signed a soul contract to be raped before they were born" or "They must have been the rapist's rapist in a past life." or "They chose it so that their soul could learn." or just the simple old "It's their karma" thing. The profound degree of cruelty, smugness, cold-heartedness, and spiritual superiority in the New Age movement was shocking to me. I had a friend who developed breast cancer and a so-called healer said to her "So what do you think you may have done to create this cancer in your life?" with a supposed loving tone of voice. This is some sick crap. I got out but not after an almost life-threatening depression. As for the guy who has no compassion for people who pay for this I can tell you that once you get sucked in it can be very confusing and hard to get out. The wealthy ones float through these programs and get special treatment from the leaders who are highly skilled at recognizing those with big cash flow and who will sign up for more future events, classes, retreats, etc...I am feeling strongly that this self help guru is sitting in meditation somewhere convincing himself that this whole thing is meant to teach something to the world and that he is the chosen messenger or "channel" for this great teaching.

[didiwinyet]

Sadly he looks like Jim Jones. I dont know a thing about this guy..
but just the story about three deaths at his deal in the desert ..
tells me all I have to know.
ten grand ? Something doesnt make sense. Investigate do not
procrastinate.

[Crowman7]

The Native peoples performed these ceremonies using certian guidelines, including the size of the lodge. After countless centuries they had come pretty close to perfecting all aspects of the lodge, including the safety of the participants. I have attended and even poured at lodges, and I would never participate in one where it is not possible to keep tabs on the well being of all participants. It's hard to imagine a lodge that size. Obviously this could not have been done in the Lakota or any other Native American tradition.

[AniRoseWalker]

Actually, another comment: Until the Earth herself and the atmosphere and the contributions of all tiny beings and unseen beings are added into the equation... we don't know the true cost of things, anything. A MacDonald's hamburger is falsely priced because it does not take into account the felling of a tree in a rain forest in order to raise a portion of a animal that fed on grasslands and gallons and gallons of water... and it doesn't take into account the unhappiness of a family when a sugar-crashing child (after eating that high-glucose bun) makes a trip miserable, or it doesn't account for the eventual cost of heart disease and diabetes and other illness partly caused by highly processed foods. That hamburger is a source of misery and disease, but it sure tastes good!

So, this may seem really off-track, but it's about the travesty of charging people for their own spiritual growth and transformation. AS IF IT WERE POSSIBLE...! And about claiming that "wealth is created" and that we should worship the rich who have made life so good for the poor.

[AniRoseWalker]

"Benjamin Ramsey" may be pen name for James Arthur Ray... ha ha! I believe you may be right! That delusional rant about how the poor should "thank" the rich was really... rich. LMAO!!!

[zintkala]

James Arthur Ray has stolen one of the most sacred ceremony of the Lakota: inikagapi. He is a fraud and should be held accountable for the death of these two persons.

I am surprised that nobody mentions the responsibility of Oprah Winfrey.
She has given a voice to James Arthur Ray, and I do believe that she should be held accountable for the sweat lodge deaths in Sedona.

Because of her, people have believed in this man who stole one of the most sacred ceremony of the Lakota.
Because of her, people have been traumatized.
Because of her, people died.

I am really shocked that she acted without proper judgement when she let James Arthur Ray sell his ******** during her show. This is a shame!

I do not understand that nobody intervenes in blogs and forums to tell people about her responsibility.

Why? Because she is rich?

[fmason1]

Oprah is just as guilty as she promotes stuff to get paid too. She tells everyone how to be thin when shes fat herself haha. She is popular as she exploits the weak minded people of the country into believing she is their "hope" and if they do what she says they will succeed. She is very good at hypnosis and is making our country dumb and stupid. We need principles back of truth and nonsense and manipulation like this WILL END that's what age of Aquarius is all about and predicted this. All these things like this will end. Oprah promoted this clown and got paid she should have to pay out of her billion to help these people. She got to shut down the street for her show when people are dying in Chicago and of course rest of the world with no food in the food banks. If she cares so much about doing good why doesn't she go feed the needy and "help" them LEARN a profession or skills. None of these people care they are all capitalistic people and I personally believe capitalism is good as it allows competition and more advancements and opportunities but this is the other side of the coin and must be kept in check by getting people like this and Oprah away from weak public who gets manipulated by them. I really truly feel sad for weak minded people and never post on websites nor use any networking sites but when I read this I had to really respond. Dr. Phil who tells you how to have good relationships was obviously not successful himself. All these people are manipulators that's it but they are not completely at fault its these weak gullible people who make people like Oprah and Dr. Phil become who they are. This is a very sad time for our country as far as knowledge and growth goes, this country was built upon Masonic principles of knowledge and wisdom and freedom but now its more like China with a different title. This is truly very very sad and the American Education system should be very proud of what they have done to our youth as as well as the older generation.

[rahan77]

Well nice guy or not, two people are dead. Some poeple are responsible for what happened and as the leader James Arthur Ray is the most responsible. Being sorry is not enought. When you make a mistake that cause death, well being saddened doesn't excuse you. This is not speculation, this is right in front of your eyes. 2 people died. James Ray is responsible for the death of those people. I'm sure some other people have also to blame, but Jams Ray is the first person to blame. He had the final word, he took all final decisions. He was supposed to know what he was doing and yet it seems he didn't have the necessery permit, the sweat lodge was covered with plastic, with material that does not breathe. 64 people packet in this inferno for 2 hours... For this kind of mistake you can't say "He's a nice guy". It could have been easily avoided. It would be fair enought for him to do some time in jail.

[rahan77]

I couldn't agree more with you. If the leader of the event won't take responsability who will? Maybe some other people have to take some part of responsability but he's the one people trusted and blindly followed, he's the most responsible. That in my opinion is a second degree murder. I saw The Secret and can you imagine that for a few weeks i actualy believed it until i reslised it was total crap?! Ask, believe, receive, it's that simple. Well what about hard work and resiliance? I'ts not enought to ask, believe and magically receive. Somehow you control, you master the universe. "Your wish is my command" says the universe. Well I'm sorry but I doesn't work like that. Of course positive thoughts helps, but many times in life things will happen despite your positive thoughts. Now what actions are you going to take to face the situation? See what happened at the retreat. Did he asked that, believed it then it happened? No, I think he was just careless. His focus was more on the profit. Was he even there during the ceremony? I thin The secret did more harm to poeple then helped them. Some people suddenly believe that the universe is at their command and make bad decisions. They might lose a lot of money in bad business or worse. It's very sad what happened and I hope that James Arthur Ary will stand up and assume his responsability.

[susannahsss]

James Arthur Ray is not God. He thinks he is but he's not. Ask God for what you want, work had, be good to others, and if it is right for you to have it (and God wants it for you) you WILL receive it. But, just because you want something doesn't mean it is right for you at this time in your life. Trust God - not a guy that takes your money and tells you what to do and what is good for you...

[NikEst]

If what James Ray preached actually worked, there would be more people talking about it. Instead, we hear "I spent thousands and now I'm just thousands poorer". Please do not say something like "You have to work at it!" because while true, the work you work on should show a glimmer of success early or what you're doing is probably a waste of time.

Also, James Ray isn't rich by his preached scheme. His rich because he preaches the scheme. Funny, he doesn't preach that get rich quick idea. He may not be a "bad" person, but he is greedy. Charging thousands per person just so they can hear you talk is greedy. Imagine if teachers could do that, they'd finally be paid something resembling the impact they have on the world.

[NikEst]

I believe that BenjaminRamsey may be a cover for James Ray. Sure, wealth might be created every now and then, but most is exchanged. For example, I pay McDonalds $6 of my money for food that costs them only $5 to make, prepare, and sell. McDonalds didn't create the extra $1, they took that dollar from me. I agreed to it, so it's not stealing, but nothing was created there. To get my money, I made an agreement with a company that they will pay me a certain amount for my work. The money I get is their money. Eventually we get to the point where the government printed the money and we find out where wealth is created.

I can't quite understand how you equate welfare checks to stealing. We are helping those who need some extra money because everything around them is so greedy the put taking a profit over the well being of people. As it turns out, I have $28 to last me and my fiance two weeks and about four days worth of food in the pantry. Can you help me figure out how to make that last 10 days? See, I'm having trouble with the math because it looks like I can spend $2.80 a day, but that means I have to eat homemade muffins and two cans of spagettios a day. Muffins take milk though, so I guess I can't afford those, it'll have to be toast, assuming bread stays cheap. See, if the town I have to live in didn't rip everybody off in rent costs, this wouldn't have happened. Obviously we are better off than those in 3rd world countries, but to say the poor should thank the rich for setting prices out of reach, for keeping wages down to a point where they are below the poverty line, and for putting in place rental policies that make it impossible to have enough money to move is itself baloney, and lots of it. Apparently, you are well off. I can tell you as someone who is not, the rich are much to blame. Rich people run the banks that tried to make money off poor people. This caused the stock market (also run by rich people) to crash, which caused all of the companies that have a goal of making money to shed jobs. Do we know what jobs were shed? Most of those jobs were low income jobs, people that couldn't get by with a job, let alone without. You really need to take a second and think about what you are talking about before you talk about it.

Also, money does not outdo the loss of life, especially if that loss of life was caused by greed and ignorance. Pay me $10k so I can stick you in a hot tarp after not feeding you for 36 hours? That is greedy, pure and simple. I'd go so far as to say it's stealing.

[susannahsss]

I think James Ray is a crook. And I feel bad for your situation. But, I have to say I am getting tired of poor people blaming the rich for everything. I am poor too. I lost my job 3 years ago. I have been very sick for 3 years. Life is VERY hard right now. But, I am not blaming the rich or anyone else. This is my life at the moment for what ever reason. I have faith - yes faith. Life is not supposed to be easy. Life is difficult (the first line in the book "The Road Less Traveled"). The funny thing is, once you understand this and ACCEPT this fact. life is no longer difficult. This is just my opinion, that's all...

[BenjaminRamsey]

The situation with the deaths during the sweat ceremony in Arizona is certainly tragic, and I can't speak to the leader James Ray's personal integrity. But what's more tragic than the sad loss of those two people is the widespread belief that wealth is not created but only taken from others. It's called the "fixed size pie" belief, that there is only a fixed set of wealth in the world, one set "pie", and in order to have a large piece of the pie someone else has to have less. Nothing could be further from the truth!!! Almost ALL wealth is created! It's a natural offshoot of the miracle of exchange, both parties are better off (or the exchange wouldn't happen). The more business one perpetuates, the more economic growth occurs, and the better off EVERYONE is, including that person. If more people could understand how this works (and I admit it sometimes can be hard to see it), the world would be a much better place. It's part of why you never hear about anyone starving to death in America, the great wealth we've generated here, in the end, SAVES LIVES!!!

As I work to create wealth for me and my family, I don't take it away from anyone. I must offer, or exchange, MORE value than I receive, plain and simple. In order to earn a million dollars, I have to put out MORE than a million dollars worth of value. Thus the overall economy is better off. You see?

Here's a simple example: I want $1, so do some work by going into the forest and pick an apple and come back and sell it at the market for $1. Whoever buys that apple values it MORE than $1, which is why they decide it's better to give up the $1 and get the apple. Thus, in the economy, there is MORE value than there was before: the man has something worth MORE than a dollar, AND I have a dollar! If I want $100 I have to work to produce something worth MORE than $100 so that the market will gladly pay me $100 for that something. If I want $10,000 it might be hard to pick 10,000 apples, so maybe I'll come up with a plan to magnify my efforts. I could plant 100 apple trees, invent a new kind of apple picker tool, and hire 10 people to pick all the apples in a fraction of the time. They would all receive fair worker's wages they agree to, and I would get the benefit of having CREATED all the new value of all those apples to trade in the market.

The whole entire economy works like this, wealth is CREATED one dollar's worth at a time. The only time it doesn't work like this is when people TAKE, such as when they steal, or when they receive welfare checks, or when they use up community pot resources without paying for them, etc. Takers expect the government or the community to provide benefits for them, they complain a lot, and they come up with false ideas about how the rich are somehow causing them to be poor. BALONEY! The poor should THANK the rich, because without them they would be POORER than they already are! It's thanks to the richest men in history, men who CREATED LOTS OF WEALTH, that the whole economy is as good as it is. We aren't starving. We aren't dying of malaria by the thousands like in Africa. We aren't literally freezing to death or being killed off by mudslides and tsunamis like they are in the poor nations of the earth. Hurricane in Florida? We EVACUATE! We have cars! We don't stay in little mud huts to die. It's mostly thanks to all the wealth which has been CREATED over the decades and centuries by entrepreneurs and businessmen. They are our greatest saving angels.

Almost all wealth is created. We should strive to create as much as we can, for ourselves and our families, and at the same time for the overall economies of the world, which helps everyone live longer happier lives.

[dalai_bunny]

This is from Ray's own Twitter post:

Our evolution is founded on the NECESSITY that we accept complete responsibility for the consequences of our own actions
5:16 PM Sep 27th from txt

So how ''EVOLVED" is he? He is a JOKE.
Another 'guru' whose cowardly hypocritical manifestation is fixated on the accumulation of wealth.
I don't care what you believe, what tradition you follow, emotional well-being and power has NOTHING to do with money, exceot for changing hands in its pursuit. Watch out for your delusions.

[hogi2]

As children we are taught never to put our head in a plastic bag...Why would someone put that many people in a plastic bag? You can see by the picture that the lodge was covered in plastic. What elder told him to do that? If he did not go to an elder to learn about running a sweat then what the heck was he doing? I have read that James Ray was a good guy. Maybe so. I do not know him. He did however, do this and needs to step up to the plate and take responsibility for what he did.

[rahan77]

I couldn't agree more with you. If the leader of the event won't take responsability who will? Maybe some other people have to take some part of responsability but he's the one people trusted and blindly followed, he's the most responsible. That in my opinion is a second degree murder. I saw The Secret and can you imagine that for a few weeks i actualy believed it until i reslised it was total crap?! Ask, believe, receive, it's that simple. Well what about hard work and resiliance? I'ts not enought to ask, believe and magically receive. Somehow you control, you master the universe. "Your wish is my command" says the universe. Well I'm sorry but I doesn't work like that. Of course positive thoughts helps, but many times in life things will happen despite your positive thoughts. Now what actions are you going to take to face the situation? See what happened at the retreat. Did he asked that, believed it then it happened? No, I think he was just careless. His focus was more on the profit. Was he even there during the ceremony? I thin The secret did more harm to poeple then helped them. Some people suddenly believe that the universe is at their command and make bad decisions. They might lose a lot of money in bad business or worse. It's very sad what happened and I hope that James Arthur Ary will stand up and assume his responsability.

[AniRoseWalker]

Think about it, --Wealth is never "created," it is always a matter of having more than other people do... and therefore is always based on wishing others to be poor so that you, in contrast, can be wealthy. This is why I've always always thought that the "Secret" was materialistic trash, and I couldn't imagine how people could flock to fake masters who charge obscene amounts.

On the other hand, transformation is real... spiritual existence is real... higher consciousness is real... all of these hopes and dreams are based on truth. Vision quests are real, and there are people who will assist you in undergoing a true quest. If you are humble enough and truthful enough, you will find a teacher.

So sad. These were people in the prime of their lives. How could their common sense have so completely failed them? I can imagine how suffocating it was, and I feel along with them the sliding into unconsciousness and the nagging awareness that something is not right... I hope they come in dreams to help others.

[BenjaminRamsey]

The situation with the deaths during the sweat ceremony in Arizona is certainly tragic, and I can't speak to the leader James Ray's personal integrity. But what's more tragic than the sad loss of those two people is the widespread belief that wealth is not created but only taken from others. It's called the "fixed size pie" belief, that there is only a fixed set of wealth in the world, one set "pie", and in order to have a large piece of the pie someone else has to have less. Nothing could be further from the truth!!! Almost ALL wealth is created! It's a natural offshoot of the miracle of exchange, both parties are better off (or the exchange wouldn't happen). The more business one perpetuates, the more economic growth occurs, and the better off EVERYONE is, including that person. If more people could understand how this works (and I admit it sometimes can be hard to see it), the world would be a much better place. It's part of why you never hear about anyone starving to death in America, the great wealth we've generated here, in the end, SAVES LIVES!!!

As I work to create wealth for me and my family, I don't take it away from anyone. I must offer, or exchange, MORE value than I receive, plain and simple. In order to earn a million dollars, I have to put out MORE than a million dollars worth of value. Thus the overall economy is better off. You see?

Here's a simple example: I want $1, so do some work by going into the forest and pick an apple and come back and sell it at the market for $1. Whoever buys that apple values it MORE than $1, which is why they decide it's better to give up the $1 and get the apple. Thus, in the economy, there is MORE value than there was before: the man has something worth MORE than a dollar, AND I have a dollar! If I want $100 I have to work to produce something worth MORE than $100 so that the market will gladly pay me $100 for that something. If I want $10,000 it might be hard to pick 10,000 apples, so maybe I'll come up with a plan to magnify my efforts. I could plant 100 apple trees, invent a new kind of apple picker tool, and hire 10 people to pick all the apples in a fraction of the time. They would all receive fair worker's wages they agree to, and I would get the benefit of having CREATED all the new value of all those apples to trade in the market.

The whole entire economy works like this, wealth is CREATED one dollar's worth at a time. The only time it doesn't work like this is when people TAKE, such as when they steal, or when they receive welfare checks, or when they use up community pot resources without paying for them, etc. Takers expect the government or the community to provide benefits for them, they complain a lot, and they come up with false ideas about how the rich are somehow causing them to be poor. BALONEY! The poor should THANK the rich, because without them they would be POORER than they already are! It's thanks to the richest men in history, men who CREATED LOTS OF WEALTH, that the whole economy is as good as it is. We aren't starving. We aren't dying of malaria by the thousands like in Africa. We aren't literally freezing to death or being killed off by mudslides and tsunamis like they are in the poor nations of the earth. Hurricane in Florida? We EVACUATE! We have cars! We don't stay in little mud huts to die. It's mostly thanks to all the wealth which has been CREATED over the decades and centuries by entrepreneurs and businessmen. They are our greatest saving angels.

Almost all wealth is created. We should strive to create as much as we can, for ourselves and our families, and at the same time for the overall economies of the world, which helps everyone live longer happier lives.

[NikEst]

I believe that BenjaminRamsey may be a cover for James Ray. Sure, wealth might be created every now and then, but most is exchanged. For example, I pay McDonalds $6 of my money for food that costs them only $5 to make, prepare, and sell. McDonalds didn't create the extra $1, they took that dollar from me. I agreed to it, so it's not stealing, but nothing was created there. To get my money, I made an agreement with a company that they will pay me a certain amount for my work. The money I get is their money. Eventually we get to the point where the government printed the money and we find out where wealth is created.

I can't quite understand how you equate welfare checks to stealing. We are helping those who need some extra money because everything around them is so greedy the put taking a profit over the well being of people. As it turns out, I have $28 to last me and my fiance two weeks and about four days worth of food in the pantry. Can you help me figure out how to make that last 10 days? See, I'm having trouble with the math because it looks like I can spend $2.80 a day, but that means I have to eat homemade muffins and two cans of spagettios a day. Muffins take milk though, so I guess I can't afford those, it'll have to be toast, assuming bread stays cheap. See, if the town I have to live in didn't rip everybody off in rent costs, this wouldn't have happened. Obviously we are better off than those in 3rd world countries, but to say the poor should thank the rich for setting prices out of reach, for keeping wages down to a point where they are below the poverty line, and for putting in place rental policies that make it impossible to have enough money to move is itself baloney, and lots of it. Apparently, you are well off. I can tell you as someone who is not, the rich are much to blame. Rich people run the banks that tried to make money off poor people. This caused the stock market (also run by rich people) to crash, which caused all of the companies that have a goal of making money to shed jobs. Do we know what jobs were shed? Most of those jobs were low income jobs, people that couldn't get by with a job, let alone without. You really need to take a second and think about what you are talking about before you talk about it.

Also, money does not outdo the loss of life, especially if that loss of life was caused by greed and ignorance. Pay me $10k so I can stick you in a hot tarp after not feeding you for 36 hours? That is greedy, pure and simple. I'd go so far as to say it's stealing.

[Mahtowa]

It is sad that these 3 people have pass due to one mans greed. As kids learning the inipee ceremonies we were always told never play with or miss use the lodge. guess he didnt learn that or believe it. Now the creator has given another new-ager/neoshaman the message DONT MISS USE OUR SACRED TEACHINGS!!!! This is not the first time some one has died in a ceremony due to miss use. I pray for the families of those who have died. Susinn and Mahiwo ne'eshte 'my prayer are with you in the morning sky. aho

[SotaMabaTanke]

I wish to honor the lives of((James& Kirby))and send heartfelt prayers to their families.I also will pray for the children left behind..
I was in utter shock when i saw this pic of the lodge.I am Native American and have lived my whole life participating in sweat lodge ceremonies.I have NEVER seen one like this.I cannot believe the negligence of using Tarps(plastic)to cover.I have read all the comments here and would like to address some of the issues.
One,yes everyone's responsible for self but its rather impossible to speak out to be let out of lodge if your unconscious.
Secondly,He who was in charge of facilitating the lodge should be fully responsible for it.Like a vehicle so to speak with passengers.Therefore it was up to him to ask how everyone is doing and to make sure all are ok.
I hope he is charged with negligence .Also,someone wrote there needs to be proof.Well I see plastic tarps right in the pictures,there's the proof.

[chiefmtn]

The grandiosity of his Narcissism,His ignorance is exceeded only by his arrogance.
We have been watching the new-agers attempt a transition to enlightenment via the lodge for years, myself for 34 years. And I am young but now I'm a grandparent 5x with anothe one coming. What will I tell my grandchildren about this James Arthur Ray that ran around stealing religion??
Probably just that he was one of the lost children of the lost Pilgrims,still looking for Cortez's gold and he tried digging it out of the hearts of his brothers.