Comments on: U.N. Official: No Pass For Torturers

Despite Obama's Decision To Give CIA Immunity, Investigator Says U.S. Is Bound By Int'l Law To Prosecute

[brianbwb-2009]

"... UN; Build a bridge and GET OVER IT" Posted by wtlibs

They most probably will, but the best way to "get over it" as you say, is to bring those responsible to justice, and make examples of those proven guilty so that it doesn't happen again.

[brianbwb-2009]

"So, if the UN is going to get all hinky about treaties, etc . . . lets do what the treaty allows us to do . . . execute ALL the Arabs captured on Afghan or Pakistani soil, kill ALL the Chechens, Saudi's, etc, caught in Iraq. Afterall, it's allowed by treaty don't ya know...." caligula1--2008

There is no allowance for genocide in any treaty ever drafted, in fact the Convention on Genocide, another treaty to which we are signatories, and thus constitutionally obligated to observe, states;

Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.

Article 1
The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.

Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

* (a) Killing members of the group;
* (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
* (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
* (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:

* (a) Genocide;
* (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
* (c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
* (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
* (e) Complicity in genocide.

Article 4
Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3 shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals."

So you were saying?

[brianbwb-2009]

"So, if the UN is going to get all hinky about treaties, etc . . . lets do what the treaty allows us to do . . . execute ALL the Arabs captured on Afghan or Pakistani soil, kill ALL the Chechens, Saudi's, etc, caught in Iraq. Afterall, it's allowed by treaty don't ya know...." caligula1--2008

There is no allowance for genocide in any treaty ever drafted, in fact the Convention on Genocide, another treaty to which we are signatories, and thus constitutionally obligated to observe, states;

"

[brianbwb-2009]

"Unless it causes permanent bodily injury or a significant risk of death it isn't torture, period... " Posted by caligula1--2008

You posit your opinion, then end it with "period", as if it were truth, when in fact it is not.

The UN convention against torture, to which we are signatory, indeed one of the main authors, is a treaty, which means our constitution obliges us to observe it. You do submit to the rule of US law, do you not?

"MESSAGE TO THE SENATE, MAY 20, 1988.sup.1,

"...The Convention was adopted by unanimous agreement of the United Nations General Assembly on December 10, 1984, and entered into force on June 26, 1987. The United States signed it on April 18, 1988. 1 also transmit, for the information of the Senate, the report of the Department of State on the Convention...

...The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention..."

Guess who this letter is signed by? Ronald Reagan.

On the subject of the definition of torture, it says;

" Article 1

1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. "

So your period means that you are wont to rewrite the law according to your own opinion, in spite of facts that differ, then try to posit it as truth.

Where, in the official definition, as agreed to by all countries who signed it, does it require "permanent bodily injury or a significant risk of death"?

Don't be such a neo.

[searingtruth]

"So, if the UN is going to get all hinky about treaties, etc . . . lets do what the treaty allows us to do . . . execute ALL the Arabs captured on Afghan or Pakistani soil, kill ALL the Chechens, Saudi's, etc, caught in Iraq.

Afterall, it's allowed by treaty don't ya know...."
caligula1--2008


Because, even if allowed by treaty, the American people are not beasts.
ST


"We expect monsters to torture and murder, for that is their nature.

We expect Americans to be just and humane, for that is our nature."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[jonesjep]

You cares what the UN thinks. They are a impotent organization that only has authority when the US backs them up. They are a completely anti-American organization and have no desire but to diminish the US so they can be the world leader.

[Solarrays247]

I think maybe the UN also thinks obama and congress are war criminals
Posted by jgg00000008 at 5:53 PM : Apr 18, 2009

I think you need to work harder at this "thinking" thing ....
Posted by JAMESC2002 at 6:32 PM : Apr 18, 2009

I actually laughed out loud when I read this, JAMESC2002! Thanks! LOL

[caligula1--2008]

The ONLY technique they used that MIGHT be questionable is water boarding, which by the standards of most national police and security forces is also known as "just getting warmed up". Unless it causes permanent bodily injury or a significant risk of death it isn't torture, period. We subject our own people to similar conditions during Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion training every year, a weekend long period of "fun" more severe than what most of these detainees experienced before they cracked like old eggs.

Of course we go into SERE school knowing that there is an end to it, whereas when they're grabbed up they know, if they're guilty, that they might as well be dead from that point, our current treatment of unlawful combatants notwithstanding. So, if the UN is going to get all hinky about treaties, etc . . . lets do what the treaty allows us to do . . . execute ALL the Arabs captured on Afghan or Pakistani soil, kill ALL the Chechens, Saudi's, etc, caught in Iraq.

Afterall, it's allowed by treaty don't ya know.

And it is, afterall, what our foes would do were the positions reversed, as well as bringing out the thumbscrews and hot pokers during interrogations rather than turning up the music (forbidden by the Koran) and keeping them in bright rooms (why waste the power?). Then again my personal ethical code has always required me to treat a person the same way he'd treat me if our positions were reversed. Definitely bad news for any "Death to Americans" type person I run into.

[searingtruth]

"The answer is simple.

Let each hold the other to an equal standard."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[reasoned1955]

Everyone needs to contact the U.N.: http://www.un.org/contactformcomments.asp?address=1
and tell them to come get these international criminals of ours and shoot them in their heads.
Posted by mcthreeteeth at 5:17 PM : Apr 18, 2009
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You've gotta be kidding...right?