So it seems the Republican party does not want us fiscal conservatives unless we also attend "church". Since they have decided to give us a member of an non-Christian CULT movement (Christian definition, not mine)as their best choice for President of the US, I guess it does not matter to them what church you attend, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Westboro Baptist or Mormon. YEAH RIGHT
Someone needs to tell Santorum that the US is a country based on freedom OF and FROM religion. I have as many morals as any Christian I know, that is not their own private trait. What an arrogant a**.
Reply to this comment ..by 1alexh September 16, 2012 4:47 PM EDT Good one! So why, pray tell, are the Republicans so fixated on calling President Obama a Muslim, but not excluding Romney for being a Mormon? Hypocrites they are indeed and in fact.
...by JV1970 September 17, 2012 2:50 AM EDT
Nowhere in the constitution does it say ANYTHING about freedom FROM religion!
...by zenia5 September 17, 2012 7:29 AM EDT
@JV1970....any of us have the freedom to choose and believe in our religion...whatever that may be. HOWEVER, YOU nor anyone else has the right to cram YOUR religious beliefs down anyone's throat or FORCE anyone to believe what you believe....especially politicians. That gets too close to a Theocratic religious rule which is VERY dangerous indeed. If you radical rightwing religious extremists want that, then move to the Middle East and start killing people in the name of God like they are doing.
...by courtobserver September 17, 2012 9:08 AM EDT
To JV1970: The constitution certainly does say something about freedom FROM religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." The government cannot require you to belong to any religion. You therefore have freedom FROM religion.
...by JV1970 September 18, 2012 1:18 AM EDT
zenia5 I'm going to tell you again that neither do you have the right to cram your beliefs down my throat!
I'm also going to tell you again: "as for your remark telling me to move to Iran, (I'm also going to include the Middle East), well that isn't going to happen!
My ancestors emmigrated to the New World in the late 1690's. My forefathers have fought in every war that America has been in since the French and Indian wars of the 1730's. They had already been in this country for several generations when the Declaration of Independence was signed and later when the Bill of Rights of US Constitution was written.
My ancestors fought for, and some of them died, for my right to live in this country and for my religious freedom. Therefore, I'm not going anywhere! Besides, in case you haven't heard, Iran is a Muslim country NOT Christian!
Why don't you move to North Korea? You'd certainly learn the true meaning of your words "completely ruled" there! In fact you wouldn't live there six months before you'd be BEGGING to move back! Then when you got here you'd be so glad to be home you'd get down and kiss the ground even if you DO think there's too much of my religion here!
...by JV1970 September 18, 2012 1:27 AM EDT
courtobserver I think you're deliberately ignoring the next phrase that says "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"!
@JV1970.....AGAIN, I ask you....who is PROHIBITING you from exercising YOUR religion????? WHO is telling you that you cannot CHOOSE your religion???? It's a free country and most of us want to keep it that way.....apparently you aren't satisfied with that concept.
The Supreme Court is one when they took prayer and Bible reading out of our public schools back in the 1960's. Another one is more recent. Many of our colleges and universities no longer allow proselytizing on their campuses. The US Air Force Academy in Colorado is one.
Even though I'm an adult, prayer, Bible reading, and proselytizing are all part of my religion and to prevent me or anyone else of my religion, including students, from doing any of them anywhere and anytime we want to is against our First Amendment rights!
Also I was fired once for reading my Bible on my lunch and coffee breaks.
JV, your personal religious beliefs and mine are just THAT....personal. I don't stand on street corners screaming that others will go to hell if they do not believe what I believe. That's not religion...that's arrogance. I practice my religion in my church, in my home, in my daily life, but NOT on street corners.
If you were fired for simply reading your bible on your own time...that is wrong. HOWEVER, if you were reading aloud, trying to convert peope, and disturbing others...that's another story.
zenia5 Then you aren't doing what Jesus Himself taught us to do in Mark 16: 15 when He said "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" and in a parable in Luke 14: 23 "And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled."
JV, if you took EVERY verse in the Bible literally, you would be in BIG, BIG trouble. It's all open to interpretation. For every verse you quote, one can find a contradiction in the Bible.
Taken out of context, many use the Bible to justify terrible things. This is true for many angry Bible-thumpers, prosperity preachers, greedy TV evangelists, and those who justify violence in the name of God.
zenia5 There's only one way to interpret the two verses that I quoted to you. They're very direct and straightforward. They are Jesus's own words and I copied them word for word directly from my King James version Bible. I didn't paraphrase either of them!
You are again missing the point, JV. There are many, many verses in the Bible which, if taken LITERALLY...without paraphrasing... would have you KILLING a lot of people, including children.
Matthew 15:4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
Exodus 21:18 "If men quarrel and one hits the other with a stone or with his fist and he does not die but is confined to bed,
Leviticus 20:9 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.
These verses are also very direct and straightforward, but should NOT be taken literarlly. Get it?
That was what he said but that's not what he meant! He was being a little sarcastic. Who he was referring to are the people THINK they're the elite, smart people!
-------------
So you're the great "translator" now? The article stated what he SAID. Of course you're on his side because you're not one of the SMART people.
Reply to this comment ..by Bad_Ranger September 17, 2012 10:17 AM EDT
Morning Ms Linda!
: )
...by Lindag20 September 17, 2012 10:55 AM EDT
Hi Ranger. It's raining here so I'll just stay inside and do a few chores.
...by JV1970 September 17, 2012 10:13 PM EDT
Lindag20 I never claimed to be one of the "smart" people! YOU'RE the one who thinks you're smart! I'm just the one with a little plain common sense and that's something that you're lacking! My common sense tells me that Santorum was NOT talking about himself or his followers!
To those who did not get the message, here is the source - "For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles." 1 Corinthians 22-23
For you religious "conservatives" who continue to mystify me by quoting the founding fathers in support of religion, here are some of the actual quotes.
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of christianity been on trial. What has been it's fruits? more or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution-James Madison
Lighthouses are more useful than churches-Benjamin Franklin
This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it-John Adams
A professor of theology should have no place in our institution-Thomas Jefferson
Here's one from one of the best journalist-The only really respectable protestants are the Fundamentalists. Unfortunately, they are also palpable idiots.
Let me leave you with George Carlin-Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky-who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And this invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, has has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever till the end of time..............BUT HE LOVES YOU!
"Santorum: Without church, family, there is no conservative movement" Well put.... On the other hand, my family and church could do just fine (better actually) without the conservative movement.
It's telling how many votes he got from people thinking he would make a good president.
Far right religious conservatives see "God is on on side!" Is any political opposition to their ultra-conservative agenda, an attack on God? Or to oppose Sen. Santorum views on marriage and the family is to oppose God? Will voters support this divine claim with their votes or will voters soundly repudiate such absolutist claims? Not voting is an act that pretends that political outcomes don't matter. One vote can make a difference in a close election!
He was being a little sarcastic. He was REALLY talking about the people who only THINK they're the elite, smart people. He wasn't talking about himself or his followers! He was talking about you liberals and Democrats. It was a slam against you and you don't even realize it!
LOL! JV1970 is stepping all over her tongue trying to justify another idiotic comment by a CONservative. You seem to have the ability to "get inside the heads" of politicians and KNOW exactly what they are thinking when they say just the opposite? That is absurd and you don't even realize it.
I thought after his defeat I would never have to see or hear Frothy Santorum again. Frothy is a stone cold lunatic. I see the same look in his eyes as Hitler, or Stalin, or Bush, or Romney.
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So it seems the Republican party does not want us fiscal conservatives unless we also attend "church". Since they have decided to give us a member of an non-Christian CULT movement (Christian definition, not mine)as their best choice for President of the US, I guess it does not matter to them what church you attend, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Westboro Baptist or Mormon. YEAH RIGHT
Someone needs to tell Santorum that the US is a country based on freedom OF and FROM religion. I have as many morals as any Christian I know, that is not their own private trait. What an arrogant a**.
Reply to this comment ..by 1alexh September 16, 2012 4:47 PM EDT
Good one!
So why, pray tell, are the Republicans so fixated on calling President Obama a Muslim, but not excluding Romney for being a Mormon?
Hypocrites they are indeed and in fact.
...by JV1970 September 17, 2012 2:50 AM EDT
Nowhere in the constitution does it say ANYTHING about freedom FROM religion!
...by zenia5 September 17, 2012 7:29 AM EDT
@JV1970....any of us have the freedom to choose and believe in our religion...whatever that may be. HOWEVER, YOU nor anyone else has the right to cram YOUR religious beliefs down anyone's throat or FORCE anyone to believe what you believe....especially politicians. That gets too close to a Theocratic religious rule which is VERY dangerous indeed. If you radical rightwing religious extremists want that, then move to the Middle East and start killing people in the name of God like they are doing.
...by courtobserver September 17, 2012 9:08 AM EDT
To JV1970: The constitution certainly does say something about freedom FROM religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." The government cannot require you to belong to any religion. You therefore have freedom FROM religion.
...by JV1970 September 18, 2012 1:18 AM EDT
zenia5 I'm going to tell you again that neither do you have the right to cram your beliefs down my throat!
I'm also going to tell you again: "as for your remark telling me to move to Iran, (I'm also going to include the Middle East), well that isn't going to happen!
My ancestors emmigrated to the New World in the late 1690's. My forefathers have fought in every war that America has been in since the French and Indian wars of the 1730's. They had already been in this country for several generations when the Declaration of Independence was signed and later when the Bill of Rights of US Constitution was written.
My ancestors fought for, and some of them died, for my right to live in this country and for my religious freedom. Therefore, I'm not going anywhere! Besides, in case you haven't heard, Iran is a Muslim country NOT Christian!
Why don't you move to North Korea? You'd certainly learn the true meaning of your words "completely ruled" there! In fact you wouldn't live there six months before you'd be BEGGING to move back! Then when you got here you'd be so glad to be home you'd get down and kiss the ground even if you DO think there's too much of my religion here!
...by JV1970 September 18, 2012 1:27 AM EDT
courtobserver I think you're deliberately ignoring the next phrase that says "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"!
Even though I'm an adult, prayer, Bible reading, and proselytizing are all part of my religion and to prevent me or anyone else of my religion, including students, from doing any of them anywhere and anytime we want to is against our First Amendment rights!
Also I was fired once for reading my Bible on my lunch and coffee breaks.
If you were fired for simply reading your bible on your own time...that is wrong. HOWEVER, if you were reading aloud, trying to convert peope, and disturbing others...that's another story.
Taken out of context, many use the Bible to justify terrible things. This is true for many angry Bible-thumpers, prosperity preachers, greedy TV evangelists, and those who justify violence in the name of God.
Matthew 15:4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
Exodus 21:18 "If men quarrel and one hits the other with a stone or with his fist and he does not die but is confined to bed,
Leviticus 20:9 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.
These verses are also very direct and straightforward, but should NOT be taken literarlly. Get it?
by JV1970 September 17, 2012 3:03 AM EDT
That was what he said but that's not what he meant! He was being a little sarcastic. Who he was referring to are the people THINK they're the elite, smart people!
-------------
So you're the great "translator" now? The article stated what he SAID. Of course you're on his side because you're not one of the SMART people.
Reply to this comment ..by Bad_Ranger September 17, 2012 10:17 AM EDT
Morning Ms Linda!
: )
...by Lindag20 September 17, 2012 10:55 AM EDT
Hi Ranger. It's raining here so I'll just stay inside and do a few chores.
...by JV1970 September 17, 2012 10:13 PM EDT
Lindag20 I never claimed to be one of the "smart" people! YOU'RE the one who thinks you're smart! I'm just the one with a little plain common sense and that's something that you're lacking! My common sense tells me that Santorum was NOT talking about himself or his followers!
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of christianity been on trial. What has been it's fruits? more or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution-James Madison
Lighthouses are more useful than churches-Benjamin Franklin
This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it-John Adams
A professor of theology should have no place in our institution-Thomas Jefferson
Here's one from one of the best journalist-The only really respectable protestants are the Fundamentalists. Unfortunately, they are also palpable idiots.
Let me leave you with George Carlin-Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky-who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And this invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, has has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever till the end of time..............BUT HE LOVES YOU!
Well put.... On the other hand, my family and church could do just fine (better actually) without the conservative movement.
It's telling how many votes he got from people thinking he would make a good president.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." Rick "Frothy" Santorum
This guy is such an idiot, and so are his followers. He even said so himself.