Comments on: Gay Rights Groups Irate After Obama Administration Lauds Defense Of Marriage Act

[gkgmd]

leftsocialist,

I don't want to change your beliefs. Just support me having my beliefs as a fellow American. I support you considering homosexuality immoral....or throwing frisbees immoral. Just don't stop me from throwing frisbees unless it is clear they are hurting someone.

[Void_Master]

Why do you have to force your immoral beliefs on me?

Posted by leftsocialist
***
No one is forcing there beliefs on you. That is the point. No one here is requiring or even asking that you become gay. When was the last time a homosexual proposed to you?

[gkgmd]

leftsocialist,

You can believe whatever you want. Just don't tell me I can't marry my lover, have a kid with him, bring him into the country and have my parents happy. I could really care less what you believe unless you interfere with my family. AND YOU ARE.

[Void_Master]

Those of you sans-faith really can't say anything about it,
it's not like being godless is altruistic or anything.
Like it or not leftsocialist is here to stay....

Posted by armyoftwelve
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I am not an atheist. I believe a being exists that can accurately be labeled "god." But I am without religion as I see no legitimate connection between the two.

[gkgmd]

Regarding respect of religiosity. I treat those with Schizophrenia. I can't speak to whether the people in the walls or the hallucinations are "real" or not. I would never force them to give these experiences up unless they wanted to, or the experiences told them to harm others and they felt compelled to do so. I would never rape someone's mind.

My child would be taught to repect those who believed in God. He would also be taught why I think they are misled. He would be taught they deserve equality.

[Void_Master]

I don't respect everyone. Respect has to be earned

Posted by armyoftwelve
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That is not entirely true across the board. While I do not expect you to respect me as you might a commanding officer in the military or to respect me as you might your father, I am a human being and you are obliged to respect that fact and the baggage it brings with it. Likewise, as much as I may even hold your beliefs in contempt, I nonetheless must respect your humanity.

I disagree rabidly with your chosen lifestyle -- that is, to be religious. Still, I respect that such is your choice. I do not wish to see and would in fact fight to prevent laws that prohibited you from exercising your faith as you see fit. But that right you possess stops at your ability to deny me or others the same consideration.

[armyoftwelve]

And don't try to tell us it is because of its immorality. That perception is just that and nothing more: a perception. It is not one that I share nor do all others share it.
Posted by Void_Master at 8:06 PM : Jun 13, 2009

That's obvious, but you see--in a free country believers are going to involve their faith. That's just how it works.

Those of you sans-faith really can't say anything about it,
it's not like being godless is altruistic or anything.
Like it or not leftsocialist is here to stay....

[gkgmd]

armyoftwelve

What if you found that the countries and states that had legalized same-sex marriage had lower rates of heterosexual divorce at a statistically significant level. Would this in any way impact your argument. Or is "benefit to society" better phrased "protection of my belief system"?

[armyoftwelve]

Teaching him to respect everyone (including those with "religiosity")

You know, given your earlier comments I'm not so sure you respect everyone (especially those with "religiosity").

I don't respect everyone. Respect has to be earned
For example, I think al-qaida are a bunch of pigs. I hope they will change for their own benefit and then after that they can EARN my respect. I can think of a bunch of other people back home in Jordan that I also do not respect.

I do not demand to be the ruler of anyone's soul. I do expect that every alternative lifestyle should NOT be affirmed by the law because it does not benefit society in the least.

One of your posts mentioned inheritance. I am not concerned with who passes money on to whom, but that is a differnet thing than calling something a marriage that is not one.

If these posts held substantive debate, we could discuss civil "unions." Things that realy don't cost society anything such as the transfer of property, etc. could probably find quite broad support. Unfortunately these forums don't contain much substantive debate.

[gkgmd]

I'm not interested in high level theorizing. I really want to know how me being with my partner of 4 years, being married, and paying the same taxes as left-socialist and armyoftwelve will hurt them individually? I want him with me, at home. I want a child for my parents. They want it. How does this really hurt your guys marriages and families? I want to know personally.