Comments on: Cheney Dismisses "Urban Legend"

[sethw76]

ausus,

Well the way the constitution was originally written you had to be male, 21, white, and a property owner.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Now socialism didn''t exist in the 18th century of course, but there were discussions about the rights of the individual versus the burden of the many. I''m sure we''ll interpret things differently, but I do believe that the constitution itself, the writings it drew from (such as the federalist papers) and the later amendments to the documents establish a case for things like progressive taxes, grants, loans, and subsidies, and other tools that you might call socialist. I think we''ll probably just disagree.

[aaabee1]

I hope you''''re wrong, for the sake of the country, but it''''s of course possible that they will sorely disappoint us. Posted by sethw76 at 07:15 PM : Jan 07, 2009

And the chances are equal that they will sorely disappoint Peace4321 by making headway for this nation.

Is the Obama Administration where the Right gets to hold out their hand in tolerance and work together for the betterment of our nation at large?

That too may be answered a year from now.

[sethw76]

Just to be clear, I don''t hate Bush or Cheney. I don''t believe everything they did was wrong. And I don''t think they caused every problem in America or the world.


I''m not going to say that Bush didn''t do some good things either. I think his AIDS funding to Africa, immigration reforms, his attempts to empower faith-based charities, and his clumsy and poorly-executed attempt to fix the education system, and his attention to diversity in his cabinet were all well-intentioned and showed that he wanted to do the right thing. But much of his foreign, fiscal, and environmental policy were misguided at best and in many cases harmful.

But I''m still holding out hope that Obama proves to all of us that it was right to elect him.

Now we''ll probably disagree on some things, but none of us want to see terrorist attacks, or a failing economy, or an energy crisis. I''m sure on a couple social issues and on some approaches to problems we''ll have different ideas of what''s best, but in the end I hope that Obama shows you too that it wasn''t such a disaster that he got elected. And that yeah the country is better off than it was when Bush left.

[aaabee1]

Bush/Cheney have "kept it out of the US". I dont accept that we are in any way responsible for terrorist acts in Spain or elsewhere (India).
Posted by machineguy at 07:02 PM

Well, have a good dinner. But I don''t know...

Bush''s pet phrase "Global War on Terror" never meant taking war to the world. It meant gathering the world together against terrorism.

If our efforts to "keep it out of America" pushed Al Quada into other people''s countries, we do have some responsibility.

And taking war to a country that Al Quada wasn''t even in, well, no Bush supporter has ever explained that one to me.

Nor have they explained that under-reported Hydrocarbon Law the US drew up working its way through a newly democratized Iraqi government suddenly sympathetic to the West, during which two oil men occupy the White House who sent our troops into an oil rich middle eastern country for no real reason, just as back home the media predicts hitting Peak Oil in the near future....

No responsibility is a bit optimistic...

Respectfully.

[ausus-2009]

sethw76,

Your interpretation of that interview and mine differ. I suppose that is similar to the trouble with interpreting the Constitution. I don''t believe that what Obama wanted to do was in line with what the writers of the Constitution intended. There were no socialists involved in writing the Constitution.

[sethw76]

It will be fun to read posts about Biden and Obama come a year from now when they have proven to have lied to you. Will you stand there and defend them or turn your back on them like you have done to Bush/ Cheney? True, no one is perfect, so what do you want, perfection?

Bush made alot of mistakes, he admits it himself, will Obama admit it when he does? The problem with over inflating someone is that when they fail you it is all out crushing. Be aware of that. Stop making Obama into someone he isn''''t or thinking he will be, for your own sanity.


Posted by peace4321 at 07:04 PM : Jan 07, 2009



peace4321,

I hope that Obama/Biden proves itself to be more transparent, more beholden to congress and the people, and more true to the ideals of the constitution than Bush/Cheney was.

I doubt they will be perfect. I''m certain mistakes will be made. I''m sure there will be some kind of scandal or corruption on some level of government.

But I hope that I''m correct in my impression that they approach the idea of governance from a different place. I may be delusional like you say. But if they hold true to even a fraction of what they said when campaigning, I can''t help but believe that they will be vastly superior to the Bush/Cheney years.

I hope you''re wrong, for the sake of the country, but it''s of course possible that they will sorely disappoint us.

[ausus-2009]

machineguy,

You statement that Roosevelt and Truman acted outside of what would normally be considered Constitutional powers during World War II is true. Lincoln stepped even further away from accepted Constitutional rights during the Civil War and none but the most revisionist of historians would say he did the wrong thing.

[McHineguy]

I may be wrong to a certain extent, and I''''ll be the first to admit that no one is perfect and there is no silver bullet.

However, I believe that the basic philosophical underpinnings of the neocons, the New American Century group, and the bush administration are antagonistic to the very fiber of our nation. I firmly believe that they have little interest in promoting transparent, humble leadership that takes great pains to not trample the very core inalienable rights of the people.

...

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Posted by sethw76 at 06:54 PM : Jan 07, 2009

I strongly disagree. this could be an entire discussion of itself. But I have to go for dinner. I am sorry for that because I truly enjoy your civil discussion. Perhaps another time.

[sethw76]

ausus,

I know what you''re referring to, but he doesnt demean or denigrate the constitution in any way. He expressed regret that the supreme court didn''t take up the ideas of redistribution of wealth.

But that''s within the purveyance of the supreme court to interpret the constitution. A conservative interpretation is as valid as a liberal interpretation.

The difference between Obama and Bush is Obama expressed regret that the Supreme Court hasn''t interpreted the constitution in the way Obama believes it should have. Bush ignored the laws deliberately and engaged in illegal activity, and attempted to hide the evidence. There is a difference.

One operates within the law; the other doesn''t. Now maybe you prefer Bush''s more conservative (on some things) philosophy, but that still doesn''t mean he can disregard the law. He''s not the king.

[McHineguy]

...
The article above agrees with you regarding the US actions in Afghanistan, but that still does not explain Iraq, nor has the Global War on Terror helped the other counties hit by an active AL Quada, like London''''s subways and the train bombings in of Spain.

I understand you want the truth spoken on Bush''''s behalf. But please speak the truth as well on behalf of the 440 people who''''ve died in terrorist attacks since Bush took war to the Middle East.

Respectfully


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Posted by AaaBee1 at 06:47 PM : Jan 07, 2009

I think we agree, for the most part. World wide terrorism has continued. the focus of discussion was that Bush/Cheney have "kept it out of the US". I view it as they took the war to them. I dont accept that we are in any way responsible for terrorist acts in Spain or elsewhere (India).

But that is a whole new topic and I have dinner waiting. Bye for now.