Comments on: Cheney Dismisses "Urban Legend"

[aaabee1]

More recently the Democratic Party''''s greatest financial backer George Soros has actively worked against American interests at home and abroad. Posted by ausus at 06:50 PM : Jan 07, 2009

OMG! And Cheney hasn''t?

Where is Cheney''s "former" company Halliburton headquartered these days - Dubai, taking jobs out of the US.

Where is the transcripts of the secret energy talks so the American people can know what the heads of energy corporations decided for the rest of us? Secret? Why?

Just how is that Hydrocarbon Law coming through Iraq parliament that allows foreign interests (read US) to come in and drill and keep profits of Iraqi oilfields, foreign rights to one of the richest oil countries on the planet that 100,000 Iraqi civilians paid for with their lives so someone in Big Oil can keep their profits flowing.

People died so that interests in the US could get a stake in anther country''s assets.

Cheney, my dear, has no altruistic vision of America''s best interests and from a far higher seat than Soros.

[McHineguy]

...

Obama NEVER ONCE uttered any contempt for the constitution, and in fact has spent his life safeguarding and protecting the constitution, making constitutional law and governance his life''''s work.

You are SADLY MISINFORMED and probably also intentionally deluded.


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Posted by sethw76 at 06:46 PM : Jan 07, 2009

Gonna correct you there. Obama did bemoan that the constitution didnt allow the courts enough lattitude in correcting the results of racism. He strongly implied that this was an error and such freedom could have been used to redistribute wealth. Check the interview that was referenced.

That isnt contempt and certainly isnt on the same order as the Patriot Act. But the actions of Bush within the patriot act are very similar to thsoe of Roosevelt and Truman during WWII. Not just, not constituional, but expedient and often prevail when the President believes he is at war.

[sethw76]

(apologies for triple posting)

[sethw76]

Machineguy,

I may be wrong to a certain extent, and I''ll be the first to admit that no one is perfect and there is no silver bullet.

However, I believe that the basic philosophical underpinnings of the neocons, the New American Century group, and the bush administration are antagonistic to the very fiber of our nation. I firmly believe that they have little interest in promoting transparent, humble leadership that takes great pains to not trample the very core inalienable rights of the people.

Rather, I think they hold the philosophy that America as an empire is more important than America as a republic. That American dominance is more crucial than American integrity.

Now there''s a lot of history of that philosophy deeply embedded in American culture and politics, and the Bush administration is merely a child of that. I do not believe Obama will be able to change that completely, and I''m uncertain that he intends to.

But I do think that the Bush administration overstepped the boundaries on numerous occasions, and I think they should be reprimanded for that. I would have appreciated a censure for the illegal wiretapping and torture, but it''s too late for that and congress has a studied lack of zeal for a measure that would be only symbolic anyways.

I do not blame the Bush administration for all of the nation''s woes, but I do find them culpable in a great many of them.

[sethw76]

Machineguy,

I may be wrong to a certain extent, and I''ll be the first to admit that no one is perfect and there is no silver bullet.

However, I believe that the basic philosophical underpinnings of the neocons, the New American Century group, and the bush administration are antagonistic to the very fiber of our nation. I firmly believe that they have little interest in promoting transparent, humble leadership that takes great pains to not trample the very core inalienable rights of the people.

Rather, I think they hold the philosophy that America as an empire is more important than America as a republic. That American dominance is more crucial than American integrity.

Now there''s a lot of history of that philosophy deeply embedded in American culture and politics, and the Bush administration is merely a child of that. I do not believe Obama will be able to change that completely, and I''m uncertain that he intends to.

But I do think that the Bush administration overstepped the boundaries on numerous occasions, and I think they should be reprimanded for that. I would have appreciated a censure for the illegal wiretapping and torture, but it''s too late for that and congress has a studied lack of zeal for a measure that would be only symbolic anyways.

I do not blame the Bush administration for all of the nation''s woes, but I do find them culpable in a great many of them.

[sethw76]

Machineguy,

I may be wrong to a certain extent, and I''ll be the first to admit that no one is perfect and there is no silver bullet.

However, I believe that the basic philosophical underpinnings of the neocons, the New American Century group, and the bush administration are antagonistic to the very fiber of our nation. I firmly believe that they have little interest in promoting transparent, humble leadership that takes great pains to not trample the very core inalienable rights of the people.

Rather, I think they hold the philosophy that America as an empire is more important than America as a republic. That American dominance is more crucial than American integrity.

Now there''s a lot of history of that philosophy deeply embedded in American culture and politics, and the Bush administration is merely a child of that. I do not believe Obama will be able to change that completely, and I''m uncertain that he intends to.

But I do think that the Bush administration overstepped the boundaries on numerous occasions, and I think they should be reprimanded for that. I would have appreciated a censure for the illegal wiretapping and torture, but it''s too late for that and congress has a studied lack of zeal for a measure that would be only symbolic anyways.

I do not blame the Bush administration for all of the nation''s woes, but I do find them culpable in a great many of them.

[KLHILL]

He only manipulated mr. 67 IQ.

I would like to go deer hunting with Cheney.

[kansas1946]

Cheney is a liar, so why would anyone believe anything he says.

[ausus-2009]

sethw76,

I take it you didn''t hear Obama''s 2001 interview, I did.

[McHineguy]

the following is an example of the knee jerk liberal slander that seems to crop up every time one of the current administration is mentioned. We get it that you dont like what has been done. Waht we dont get is why your self righteous blindness and anger spewing is any better than the administration you criticize. It eradicates any hope of wisdom and alienates anyone who might otherwise agree with you.

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No, the Chimp in Chief and the ******* from Jackson Hole were both owned and operated by the Elite Financial Class of Billionaires.


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Posted by jbrown88881 at 06:37 PM : Jan 07, 2009

Foolish and angry statement. Definitely not constructive.

[ausus-2009]

jbrown88881,

Who are the "Elite Financial Class of Billionaires?" I can name a number of Elite Financial Class of Billionaires through the years that have promoted left-wing causes, offering at least moral support to enemies of the US. Cyrus Eaton was such a friend of the Soviet Union he even hosted Khrushchev on his visit to the US. Al Gore''s good friend Armand Hammer also promoted Soviet interests. More recently the Democratic Party''s greatest financial backer George Soros has actively worked against American interests at home and abroad.

[aaabee1]

Posted by sethw76 at 06:38 PM : Jan 07, 2009

I agree with Machineguy about your posts, very thoughtful and wise.

[aaabee1]

... but lets deal with truth ...
Posted by Machineguy at 06:31 PM : Jan 07, 2009

Whose truth, friend?

Quote: "On a global scale: terrorist activity and violence has grown worse, not better since 11 September 2001.

Since 11 September 2001, Al Qaeda has directed, financed, or played a role in 30 fatal operations in 12 countries causing 2500 casualties including 440 deaths."

http://www.comw.org/pda/0609bm38.html

The article above agrees with you regarding the US actions in Afghanistan, but that still does not explain Iraq, nor has the Global War on Terror helped the other counties hit by an active AL Quada, like London''s subways and the train bombings in of Spain.

I understand you want the truth spoken on Bush''s behalf. But please speak the truth as well on behalf of the 440 people who''ve died in terrorist attacks since Bush took war to the Middle East.

Respectfully

[sethw76]

ausus,

the Bush administration denied habeas corpus to US citizens, kidnapped US citizens and took them to other countries to be tortured under the authority of the CIA, and illegally wiretapped thousands (millions?) of US citizens in DIRECT VIOLATION to US law.

Obama NEVER ONCE uttered any contempt for the constitution, and in fact has spent his life safeguarding and protecting the constitution, making constitutional law and governance his life''s work.

You are SADLY MISINFORMED and probably also intentionally deluded.

[McHineguy]

Holding leaders accountable for destroying the US economy, killing thousands of innocents in a needless war, sending thousands of American soldiers to their deaths in a senseless war, driving the gap between the rich and poor even wider, trampling the constitution, sparking an energy crisis, and alienating the US from the rest of the civilized world is not hate. It''''s good judgement. It''''s common sense and decency. It''''s a sign of intelligence and character.


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Posted by sethw76 at 06:14 PM : Jan 07, 2009

Then again, it could be just plain over-simplification promoted with predjudicial and exagerated rhetoric. Bush didnt cause all the ills of our time and Obama isnt going to fix all the ills of our time. The guy doesnt communicate very well and has chosen macho stubborness over appeasement and gratuitous inclusion of borderline allies (France, Germany, etc.) But lets try to separate facts from predjudice and use our knowledge to advocate future initiatives

[ausus-2009]

psy_war,

You accuse the President of defecating on the Constitution, yet he has never publicly uttered contempt for the Constitution, unlike Obama. I take it you have heard replays of Obama''s 2001 Chicago radio interview.

[sethw76]

Posted by psy_war at 06:23 PM : Jan 07, 2009

Your list left off the anthrax letters as well. Of course, that can''''t be counted because then the US HAS had a terrorist attack since 9/11 and from within its own borders...

Posted by AaaBee1 at 06:26 PM : Jan 07, 2009

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Depending on how you define terrorism, we also have the Washington DC sniper attacks and the many school shootings since then.

I believe the CIA and FBI deserve credit for the hard work they do in protecting America, but I also believe that terrorist attacks could happen again. But that thought shouldn''t cripple us with fear or cause us to devalue our core integrity.

And that was the crucial error of the Bush administration, and the one thing Cheney still doesn''t get. America isn''t a piece of land. It''s an ideal and a state of mind. And torture and wiretapping and other corrosive measures erode more at America than any terrorist attack ever could.

The Bush administration engaged on vicious and damaging attacks on the very fabric and foundation of our nation. They caused more American deaths with their misguided and worthless war than died in 9-11. They wrote policies and doctrines and encouraged practices by our soldiers and intelligence officers that demean us as a people and undermine everything we stand for.

In some ways, those crimes are just as damaging, and may even be worse in the long-term than the attacks on 9-11, as horrific as those terrorist attacks were.

[McHineguy]

...

There''''s plenty to blame this administration for, but it''''s wrong to pin on them things that in all honesty were probably impossible to prevent. 9-11 is an American tragedy. It is not the fault of the Bush administration, even as they did not deal with the causes of it. Hopefully the Obama administration will be able to get to the root causes of terrorism and make America a safer nation.


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Posted by sethw76 at 06:29 PM : Jan 07, 2009

Thank you for a very thoughtful and wise post. I would disagree with a few details but the overall intent is right on, in my opinion.

[McHineguy]

Repubs like to say Bush protected us from attacks for 7 years after 9/11, but they fail to understand that that we had no attacks for 7 years before Bush was installed as President


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Posted by endrepubs at 06:23 PM : Jan 07, 2009

THAT IS NOT TRUE!!! The same group attacked the World Trade Center in 1993. That was 8 years before 9/11. In addition, there had been a steady drumbeat of attacks throughout the world. these included a Marine barracks, the Cole, and others I dont have time to list. Just check your facts before you form your opinion.

Bush/Cheney have kept us safe. You may not like the price, but lets deal with truth or suffer being accused of lying as badly as many accuse Bush.

[sethw76]

I think it''s a mistake to attempt to pin 9-11 on the Bush administration. Could it have been caught earlier, or handled better. Perhaps. But perhaps Pearl Harbor could have been prevented too.

The terrorists of 9-11 targeted us as a nation, and we as a nation all took the hit.

What we can do, however, is place blame with the administration for squandering the goodwill of the world, for invading the wrong country, for violating the US constitution, and basic human rights. We can blame them for turning away when the poor needed their help, despite their promises of "compassionate conservatism." We can blame them for appointing cronies and kiss-ups to vital positions, which directly led to catastrophes like Katrina. We can blame them for going to bed with defense contractors and lobbyists, resulting in the disasters of Haliburton and Blackwater. We can blame them for winking and nodding when they should have been regulating Wall Street, and blame them for their wild laizze-faire anything-goes capitalism-without-restraint policies.

There''s plenty to blame this administration for, but it''s wrong to pin on them things that in all honesty were probably impossible to prevent. 9-11 is an American tragedy. It is not the fault of the Bush administration, even as they did not deal with the causes of it. Hopefully the Obama administration will be able to get to the root causes of terrorism and make America a safer nation.