If I was in the service I wouldn't want to be in a common shower with a known gay not being in the closet, or even worse stranded on an island or a long-term foxhole/barricade with one. To me those that announce it want some action. The same goes for the Boy Scout troops not wanting a gay leader or a woman leader. If it passes there there be gay pride military parades with all the debauchery?
Dream Act should only be for military service - not college - only for those with good records and absolute proof they were brought to the USA at a young age - less than 18.
I DISAGREE! DREAM ACT should NOT be for military service! In these economic times, the military should have no problems getting recruits. Sadly, the poor seem to be the ones that enlist, rich folks kids all go to college. THE DREAM ACT SHOULD BE A DREAM THAT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS GET SENT HOME. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR KID THAT YOU BROUGHT HERE ILLEGALLY.
That's quiet a good idea except for the ones who don't want to enter the military. And Mr. Greboo, I'm in my last year of HS and also at the same time attending college...I'm a illegal student in the USA. And i have a excellent GPA and I'm finishing my Associates Degree. Do you think you should deserve a chance in life if you tried your hardest to major in Criminal Justice and be, with the faith in God, someday a FBI Agent? That's my DREAM! Serve this country, even though its not mine.
You make your ignorance known by your blog. The Dream Act is a just way to allow those young people, of whom a great many have been here all their lives, be able to win citizenship. God help our nation to rise above the rhetoric of the hypocritical right-wimg, and of those two-tongued devils who have the unmitigated gall to call themselves christians. There. I'm done ranting, thank you.
Okee doke. Where do you plan to come up with the literally hundreds of thousands of ICE agents at a cost of billions upon billions of dollars to do that? Are you going to adopt all the U.S. citizen children who will suddenly be orphaned - millions of them? How about the housing, agriculture and service industries that rely on cheap labor to stay in business (gee, could it be that the demand for sub-minimum wage labor is the reason they're here in the first place)?
Oh yeah, brilliant idea Einstein. Let's go a few trillion dollars more in debt so we can create registries and internment camps and do house-by-house inspections (and let's speak German while we do it!), all so we can cost the economy trillions of dollars more.
It wouldn't cost anything if every employer had to verify if they were legal or not and also if our govenment would go after the business hiring them with huge fines and prison time. Also if you cut the welfare benefits off they would go home on their own! NO JOBS, NO HANDOUTS, NO ILLEGALS!
SOLUTION: Enforce laws. Check identification and verify SSN. Fine/penalize all employers heavily for hiring illegal aliens. Nation has a 10% unemployment rate average, some places like california are much higher. We DO NOT need illegal labor here. We do not need to fund DREAM ACT kids and give them more free rides. We are a nation of laws and I submit that the nation should enforce those laws! Secure the borders along with enforcement. THEN... once those have been accomplished, we can look at Agricultural programs and such that need labor. And, then, what about LEGAL immigration? Keep bringing in the million a year while we have the same amount running across the border and registering for food stamps, welfare, schooling, medical, dropping anchor babies, etc...????
HIATUS ON ALL IMMIGRATION DURING THIS ECONOMY. If you do not agree, well, too bad. Tell it to all the unemployed and all of us who pay taxes. 50% of Americans pay no tax at all!! (Same place most of the illegals would be even if granted citizenship) - 47% of that group are DEMOCRATS.
the more I think about this the angrier I get. Seriously, HOW DARE THEY load all of these 1,000 page bills of this importance into the lame duck congress the week before christmas. Everybody got snookered on the healthcare bill same time last year, and now this is ten times worse. Do they have that much contempt for the public? Do they really think people are that stupid? Well, some maybe. But the majority ain't.
On one hand, having it has reduced the Hepetitis C incidences. Hep C is a deadly disease with no known cure and can be caught through casual contact-- widely spread by homosexuals-- hence why they are banned from donating blood, blood products or organs in nearly every country in the world.
You know, I am divided on the DREAM ACT issue. On one hand, the argument that children should *not* be punished for the crimes of their parents has merit. On the other hand, the argument that children should not be *rewarded* for the crimes of their parents has merit as well. The second one holds more water for me for one additional reason: This "back door amnesty" while looking good on the face of things, ignores the very obvious effect that it offers incentives for even *more* deliberate ignorance of the immigration laws. They reduce the downside of breaking the laws and increase the upside. There is little enough accountability as it is now, or the Laws Enacted by various states, such as Rhode Island and Arizona, to add teeth to unenforced Federal Laws, would not be needed and would not be being considered by even more states.
Some of you will argue that they should be allowed to seek a better life here and mostly only fill positions that citizens are unwilling to fill. I have not been convinced by that arguement, but will allow that there may be a grain of truth hiding under all the spin. I would propose this to provide an answer this possible problem:
For employers, they may hire anyone who is not a citizen, provided that a work visa is processed. Security checks may be needed, and that will take time. Sorry, but that is unavoidable for those already coming here legally, and I don't see it as correct to make it easier because someone may break the laws, and you have no other reason than you want to make it easier for lawbreakers.
Citizenship is still subject to quotas and limitations, as it is now. Work Visas are without limit.
For non-citizens, the employer pays double social security. For citizens, it is the normal amount. So there is a bias for citizens *if* they want the job bad enough. If not, the burden is not even close to enough to prevent a non-citizen from getting the job. As a side benefit, it props up the Social Security system a little more.
So why would a business want to even report non-citzens correctly? You add the teeth of something like triple the career to date cost of any non-citizen they have incorrectly reported as a citizen, and the chance to have their entire payroll evaluated for this problem at any given time. Treble damages is a suggestion. Make it ten, if that is what the level of punishment is that is needed to make a business adverse to taking this risk.
So why would a non-citizen *ever* want to report themselves? Make it the only way they can ensure that they could become citizens. If they are found out, any *other* way than individual or collective self reporting, then they can never become citizens without a personal presidential pardon. (no mass amnesty -- a seperate document and signature for each and every individual!) Activist groups out there who are really trying to help will help them report their situation properly, even though they will make noise against it now. They will know where to find those people as easy in that situation as they do now, and if they don't help them, they are poor excuse for representative voices of advice.
There are further refinements that could be made to such a proposal, but it allows a path that is not unreasonable, and does not reward bad behavior of kids or parents. That is *really* the problem, you know -- appeasement *never* works. You just encourage more of the same.
Harry, forget it man. Sleep in because nothing substantial is going to pass until February but knock yourself out. These issues should have been brought up and voted on long before this eleventh hour and you know it. I say we CR all, take a breather and resume in February. Oh, you don't want that? You reap what you sow Harry and the American people are tired of your Three Card Monty especially this Democrat with your Holiday marathons and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one.
The votes are decided long before the actual voting occurs - the formal vote being little more than a theatrical production. The last minute changes of heart that take place are worthy of Oscar nominations. Like the time the harpy Sen. Olympia Snowe gushingly annouced that she would vote for Obama's healthcare bill because history was calling to her. We can only hope that history has learned to shut its mouth, especially if Snowe ever steps in front of a runaway streetcar.
In the case of the Dream Act, it is difficult to know whether it has been decided to pass it and that the formality of the voting will occur late one night while the nation sleeps; or not pass it, with the Democrat lawmakers offering the fake-attempted passage as a political gesture to the illegals.
The proposed Dream Act needs to be considered realistically. This is massive Amnesty for every illegal alien who can claim, even fraudulently, that they entered before the age of 16 and have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years. The proponents assert that the illegals must serve in the military or attend college. This is not true for several reasons.
The key reason is that any "qualifying" illegal gets 10 years of legal status simply by applying. Of course, in theory applications can be denied. However, past experience shows that blatantly fraudulent applications will be received in massive numbers and readily accepted. Note that the Dream Act specifically forbids the use of any information received in an application for any immigration enforcement purpose. Apparently, the Dream Act imposes no penalties for fraud no matter how blatant. Of course, it is very unlikely that the Obama administration is going to apply a fine tooth comb to any applicant, particularly when they have millions of forms to consider.
The age 16 cutoff is quite significant in this context. Aside from the fact that an illegal who entered the U.S. at age 15 really did grow up in Mexico (or anywhere else), the 16 year threshold makes fraud detection rather difficult. If the cutoff was 10 or 12 the Federal government could reasonably insist that each applicant produce school records to show what age they snuck over the border. By contrast a fraudulent applicant can simply claim that they entered at age 15 and went to work shortly thereafter. Of course, they may have really been 25, but who is to say otherwise?
Once they apply every illegal gets 10 years of legal residence in the U.S. In theory to stay on after 10 years, they have to join the Army or go to college. However, the Dream Act has a "hardship" exemption that anyone can claim. Since even a denied "hardship" claim can be litigated forever, this amounts to "no illegal left behind". The government doesn't have the resources to reject even obviously bogus "hardship" claims given the de fact rule of immigration law ("it ain't over until the illegal wins").
However, the truth is worse. Even illegals who never lift a pencil or a rifle will engage in activities tying them to America over a ten year period. Some will marry. Others will have children in and out of wedlock (very likely the latter). The notion that Congress, the courts, and Federal bureaucracy are going to remove this illegals after a 10 year hiatus is dubious at best. The bottom line is that this a ten year down payment on permanent Amnesty for every illegal who applies with essentially any convenient fictions on his or her form.
The next question is what is likely to be the impact of these illegals on our nation. This topic has been extensively researched and the results are highly negative. A number of references make this point all to clearly.
1. The 1997 National Academy of Sciences study found that each low-skilled immigrant costs $89,000 over the course of his/her lifetime. See http://******/98KcJf
"The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000."
2. There is little evidence that the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of illegals will do much better. Samuel Huntington looked at this subject in his book, "Who Are We". See Table 9.1 on page 234 or http://******/foZPxH. The bottom line is that educational attainment rises from the first to the second generation and then plateaus at levels far below the national average. For example, even by the fourth generation only 9.6% of Mexican-Americans have a post-high school degree.
3. The Heritage foundation found that low-skill immigrant households impose huge tax costs on Americans. See "The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Immigrants to the U.S. Taxpayer" (http://******/98MAOo). The summary is
"In FY 2004, low-skill immigrant households received $30,160 per household in immediate benefits and services (direct benefits, means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services). In general, low-skill immigrant households received about $10,000 more in government benefits than did the average U.S. household, largely because of the higher level of means-tested welfare benefits received by low-skill immigrant households. In contrast, low-skill immigrant households pay less in taxes than do other households. On average, low-skill immigrant households paid only $10,573 in taxes in FY 2004. Thus, low-skill immigrant households received nearly three dollars in immediate benefits and services for each dollar in taxes paid. A household's net fiscal deficit equals the cost of benefits and services received minus taxes paid. When the costs of direct and means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services are counted, the average low-skill household had a fiscal deficit of $19,588 (expenditures of $30,160 minus $10,573 in taxes)."
4. Heather MacDonald has written extensively on the bleak realities of mass unskilled immigration. I recommend "Seeing Today's Immigrants Straight" (http://******/hl5aZP). Key quote
"If someone proposed a program to boost the number of Americans who lack a high school diploma, have children out of wedlock, sell drugs, steal, or use welfare, he'd be deemed mad. Yet liberalized immigration rules would do just that. The illegitimacy rate among Hispanics is high and rising faster than that of other ethnic groups; their dropout rate is the highest in the country; Hispanic children are joining gangs at younger and younger ages. Academic achievement is abysmal."
5. Edward P. Lazear's (CEA / Harvard Economics) paper "Mexican Assimilation in the United States" has a wealth of statistics showing the raw deal from south of the border. Summary quote.
"By almost any measure, immigrants from Mexico have performed worse and become assimilated more slowly than immigrants from other countries. Still, Mexico is a huge country, with many high ability people who could fare very well in the United States. Why have Mexicans done so badly? The answer is primarily immigration policy."
See also "Lazear on Immigration" (http://******/eGV9iR). Money quote
"Immigrants from Mexico do far worse when they migrate to the United States than do immigrants from other countries. Those difficulties are more a reflection of U.S. immigration policy than they are of underlying cultural differences. The following facts from the 2000 U.S. Census reveal that Mexican immigrants do not move into mainstream American society as rapidly as do other immigrants."
The proposed Dream Act needs to be considered realistically. This is massive Amnesty for every illegal alien who can claim, even fraudulently, that they entered before the age of 16 and have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years. The proponents assert that the illegals must serve in the military or attend college. This is not true for several reasons.
The key reason is that any "qualifying" illegal gets 10 years of legal status simply by applying. Of course, in theory applications can be denied. However, past experience shows that blatantly fraudulent applications will be received in massive numbers and readily accepted. Note that the Dream Act specifically forbids the use of any information received in an application for any immigration enforcement purpose. Apparently, the Dream Act imposes no penalties for fraud no matter how blatant. Of course, it is very unlikely that the Obama administration is going to apply a fine tooth comb to any applicant, particularly when they have millions of forms to consider.
The age 16 cutoff is quite significant in this context. Aside from the fact that an illegal who entered the U.S. at age 15 really did grow up in Mexico (or anywhere else), the 16 year threshold makes fraud detection rather difficult. If the cutoff was 10 or 12 the Federal government could reasonably insist that each applicant produce school records to show what age they snuck over the border. By contrast a fraudulent applicant can simply claim that they entered at age 15 and went to work shortly thereafter. Of course, they may have really been 25, but who is to say otherwise?
Once they apply every illegal gets 10 years of legal residence in the U.S. In theory to stay on after 10 years, they have to join the Army or go to college. However, the Dream Act has a "hardship" exemption that anyone can claim. Since even a denied "hardship" claim can be litigated forever, this amounts to "no illegal left behind". The government doesn't have the resources to reject even obviously bogus "hardship" claims given the de fact rule of immigration law ("it ain't over until the illegal wins").
However, the truth is worse. Even illegals who never lift a pencil or a rifle will engage in activities tying them to America over a ten year period. Some will marry. Others will have children in and out of wedlock (very likely the latter). The notion that Congress, the courts, and Federal bureaucracy are going to remove this illegals after a 10 year hiatus is dubious at best. The bottom line is that this a ten year down payment on permanent Amnesty for every illegal who applies with essentially any convenient fictions on his or her form.
The next question is what is likely to be the impact of these illegals on our nation. This topic has been extensively researched and the results are highly negative. A number of references make this point all to clearly.
1. The 1997 National Academy of Sciences study found that each low-skilled immigrant costs $89,000 over the course of his/her lifetime. See http://******/98KcJf
"The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000."
2. There is little evidence that the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of illegals will do much better. Samuel Huntington looked at this subject in his book, "Who Are We". See Table 9.1 on page 234 or http://******/foZPxH. The bottom line is that educational attainment rises from the first to the second generation and then plateaus at levels far below the national average. For example, even by the fourth generation only 9.6% of Mexican-Americans have a post-high school degree.
Dirty Harry getting his reelection promise debts paid off. Las Vegas still in bad recession but Harry and sons sitting high on the hog.
The gays that die because of fragging and DADT will be blood on their and other liberal heads. I'll bet ol' Harry has illegal aliens chained to his lawn mowers etc. He is corruption itself IMO.
James Michner in his autobiography tells of an incident whe a burly gay got the troops to drink and party gay on a remote island. Watch for more of these type scandals for the press to cover-up for the dems.
How about a Twikileaks site to out the dem scandals and the corrupt media
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If it passes there there be gay pride military parades with all the debauchery?
Dream Act should only be for military service - not college - only for those with good records and absolute proof they were brought to the USA at a young age - less than 18.
Oh yeah, brilliant idea Einstein. Let's go a few trillion dollars more in debt so we can create registries and internment camps and do house-by-house inspections (and let's speak German while we do it!), all so we can cost the economy trillions of dollars more.
Please God, tell me you haven't reproduced.
HIATUS ON ALL IMMIGRATION DURING THIS ECONOMY. If you do not agree, well, too bad. Tell it to all the unemployed and all of us who pay taxes. 50% of Americans pay no tax at all!! (Same place most of the illegals would be even if granted citizenship) - 47% of that group are DEMOCRATS.
On one hand, having it has reduced the Hepetitis C incidences. Hep C is a deadly disease with no known cure and can be caught through casual contact-- widely spread by homosexuals-- hence why they are banned from donating blood, blood products or organs in nearly every country in the world.
On the other hand, SoMeOnE has to walk Point.
Some of you will argue that they should be allowed to seek a better life here and mostly only fill positions that citizens are unwilling to fill. I have not been convinced by that arguement, but will allow that there may be a grain of truth hiding under all the spin. I would propose this to provide an answer this possible problem:
For employers, they may hire anyone who is not a citizen, provided that a work visa is processed. Security checks may be needed, and that will take time. Sorry, but that is unavoidable for those already coming here legally, and I don't see it as correct to make it easier because someone may break the laws, and you have no other reason than you want to make it easier for lawbreakers.
Citizenship is still subject to quotas and limitations, as it is now. Work Visas are without limit.
For non-citizens, the employer pays double social security. For citizens, it is the normal amount. So there is a bias for citizens *if* they want the job bad enough. If not, the burden is not even close to enough to prevent a non-citizen from getting the job. As a side benefit, it props up the Social Security system a little more.
So why would a business want to even report non-citzens correctly? You add the teeth of something like triple the career to date cost of any non-citizen they have incorrectly reported as a citizen, and the chance to have their entire payroll evaluated for this problem at any given time. Treble damages is a suggestion. Make it ten, if that is what the level of punishment is that is needed to make a business adverse to taking this risk.
So why would a non-citizen *ever* want to report themselves? Make it the only way they can ensure that they could become citizens. If they are found out, any *other* way than individual or collective self reporting, then they can never become citizens without a personal presidential pardon. (no mass amnesty -- a seperate document and signature for each and every individual!) Activist groups out there who are really trying to help will help them report their situation properly, even though they will make noise against it now. They will know where to find those people as easy in that situation as they do now, and if they don't help them, they are poor excuse for representative voices of advice.
There are further refinements that could be made to such a proposal, but it allows a path that is not unreasonable, and does not reward bad behavior of kids or parents. That is *really* the problem, you know -- appeasement *never* works. You just encourage more of the same.
;'{P~~~
In the case of the Dream Act, it is difficult to know whether it has been decided to pass it and that the formality of the voting will occur late one night while the nation sleeps; or not pass it, with the Democrat lawmakers offering the fake-attempted passage as a political gesture to the illegals.
The key reason is that any "qualifying" illegal gets 10 years of legal status simply by applying. Of course, in theory applications can be denied. However, past experience shows that blatantly fraudulent applications will be received in massive numbers and readily accepted. Note that the Dream Act specifically forbids the use of any information received in an application for any immigration enforcement purpose. Apparently, the Dream Act imposes no penalties for fraud no matter how blatant. Of course, it is very unlikely that the Obama administration is going to apply a fine tooth comb to any applicant, particularly when they have millions of forms to consider.
The age 16 cutoff is quite significant in this context. Aside from the fact that an illegal who entered the U.S. at age 15 really did grow up in Mexico (or anywhere else), the 16 year threshold makes fraud detection rather difficult. If the cutoff was 10 or 12 the Federal government could reasonably insist that each applicant produce school records to show what age they snuck over the border. By contrast a fraudulent applicant can simply claim that they entered at age 15 and went to work shortly thereafter. Of course, they may have really been 25, but who is to say otherwise?
Once they apply every illegal gets 10 years of legal residence in the U.S. In theory to stay on after 10 years, they have to join the Army or go to college. However, the Dream Act has a "hardship" exemption that anyone can claim. Since even a denied "hardship" claim can be litigated forever, this amounts to "no illegal left behind". The government doesn't have the resources to reject even obviously bogus "hardship" claims given the de fact rule of immigration law ("it ain't over until the illegal wins").
However, the truth is worse. Even illegals who never lift a pencil or a rifle will engage in activities tying them to America over a ten year period. Some will marry. Others will have children in and out of wedlock (very likely the latter). The notion that Congress, the courts, and Federal bureaucracy are going to remove this illegals after a 10 year hiatus is dubious at best. The bottom line is that this a ten year down payment on permanent Amnesty for every illegal who applies with essentially any convenient fictions on his or her form.
The next question is what is likely to be the impact of these illegals on our nation. This topic has been extensively researched and the results are highly negative. A number of references make this point all to clearly.
1. The 1997 National Academy of Sciences study found that each low-skilled immigrant costs $89,000 over the course of his/her lifetime. See http://******/98KcJf
"The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000."
2. There is little evidence that the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of illegals will do much better. Samuel Huntington looked at this subject in his book, "Who Are We". See Table 9.1 on page 234 or http://******/foZPxH. The bottom line is that educational attainment rises from the first to the second generation and then plateaus at levels far below the national average. For example, even by the fourth generation only 9.6% of Mexican-Americans have a post-high school degree.
3. The Heritage foundation found that low-skill immigrant households impose huge tax costs on Americans. See "The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Immigrants to the U.S. Taxpayer" (http://******/98MAOo). The summary is
"In FY 2004, low-skill immigrant households received $30,160 per household in immediate benefits and services (direct benefits, means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services). In general, low-skill immigrant households received about $10,000 more in government benefits than did the average U.S. household, largely
because of the higher level of means-tested welfare benefits received by low-skill immigrant households. In contrast, low-skill immigrant households pay less in taxes than do other households. On average, low-skill immigrant households paid only $10,573 in taxes in FY 2004. Thus, low-skill immigrant households received nearly three dollars in immediate benefits and services for each dollar in taxes paid. A household's net fiscal deficit equals the cost of benefits and services received minus taxes paid. When the costs
of direct and means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services are counted, the average low-skill household had a fiscal deficit of $19,588 (expenditures of $30,160 minus $10,573 in taxes)."
4. Heather MacDonald has written extensively on the bleak realities of mass unskilled immigration. I recommend "Seeing Today's Immigrants Straight" (http://******/hl5aZP). Key quote
"If someone proposed a program to boost the number of Americans who lack a high school diploma, have children out of wedlock, sell drugs, steal, or use welfare, he'd be deemed mad. Yet liberalized immigration rules would do just that. The illegitimacy rate among Hispanics is high and rising faster than that of other ethnic groups; their dropout rate is the highest in the country; Hispanic children are joining gangs at younger and younger ages. Academic achievement is abysmal."
5. Edward P. Lazear's (CEA / Harvard Economics) paper "Mexican Assimilation in the United States" has a wealth of statistics showing the raw deal from south of the border. Summary quote.
"By almost any measure, immigrants from Mexico have performed worse and become
assimilated more slowly than immigrants from other countries. Still, Mexico is a huge country, with many high ability people who could fare very well in the United States. Why have Mexicans done so badly? The answer is primarily immigration policy."
See also "Lazear on Immigration" (http://******/eGV9iR). Money quote
"Immigrants from Mexico do far worse when they migrate to the United States than do immigrants from other countries. Those difficulties are more a reflection of U.S. immigration policy than they are of underlying cultural differences. The following facts from the 2000 U.S. Census reveal that Mexican immigrants do not move into mainstream American society as rapidly as do other immigrants."
You can read the rest over at the Borjas blog.
The key reason is that any "qualifying" illegal gets 10 years of legal status simply by applying. Of course, in theory applications can be denied. However, past experience shows that blatantly fraudulent applications will be received in massive numbers and readily accepted. Note that the Dream Act specifically forbids the use of any information received in an application for any immigration enforcement purpose. Apparently, the Dream Act imposes no penalties for fraud no matter how blatant. Of course, it is very unlikely that the Obama administration is going to apply a fine tooth comb to any applicant, particularly when they have millions of forms to consider.
The age 16 cutoff is quite significant in this context. Aside from the fact that an illegal who entered the U.S. at age 15 really did grow up in Mexico (or anywhere else), the 16 year threshold makes fraud detection rather difficult. If the cutoff was 10 or 12 the Federal government could reasonably insist that each applicant produce school records to show what age they snuck over the border. By contrast a fraudulent applicant can simply claim that they entered at age 15 and went to work shortly thereafter. Of course, they may have really been 25, but who is to say otherwise?
Once they apply every illegal gets 10 years of legal residence in the U.S. In theory to stay on after 10 years, they have to join the Army or go to college. However, the Dream Act has a "hardship" exemption that anyone can claim. Since even a denied "hardship" claim can be litigated forever, this amounts to "no illegal left behind". The government doesn't have the resources to reject even obviously bogus "hardship" claims given the de fact rule of immigration law ("it ain't over until the illegal wins").
However, the truth is worse. Even illegals who never lift a pencil or a rifle will engage in activities tying them to America over a ten year period. Some will marry. Others will have children in and out of wedlock (very likely the latter). The notion that Congress, the courts, and Federal bureaucracy are going to remove this illegals after a 10 year hiatus is dubious at best. The bottom line is that this a ten year down payment on permanent Amnesty for every illegal who applies with essentially any convenient fictions on his or her form.
The next question is what is likely to be the impact of these illegals on our nation. This topic has been extensively researched and the results are highly negative. A number of references make this point all to clearly.
1. The 1997 National Academy of Sciences study found that each low-skilled immigrant costs $89,000 over the course of his/her lifetime. See http://******/98KcJf
"The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000."
2. There is little evidence that the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of illegals will do much better. Samuel Huntington looked at this subject in his book, "Who Are We". See Table 9.1 on page 234 or http://******/foZPxH. The bottom line is that educational attainment rises from the first to the second generation and then plateaus at levels far below the national average. For example, even by the fourth generation only 9.6% of Mexican-Americans have a post-high school degree.
The gays that die because of fragging and DADT will be blood on their and other liberal heads. I'll bet ol' Harry has illegal aliens chained to his lawn mowers etc. He is corruption itself IMO.
James Michner in his autobiography tells of an incident whe a burly gay got the troops to drink and party gay on a remote island. Watch for more of these type scandals for the press to cover-up for the dems.
How about a Twikileaks site to out the dem scandals and the corrupt media