As a matter of fact, many small "Mom and Pop" businesses pay taxes as personal income, and do not incorporate. Keep in mind that it is the people who give money to the government, and not the government that allows the people to keep some their money. You seem to think that the government is automatically entitled to redistribute it. Those are principles of European socialism; not the thinking of the founders of this Republic.
Everyone here knows that American corporations are generated record profits and sitting on record amounts of cash right? I know Obama is a Democrat and that's bad for businesses (except when Clinton was President) but those are the facts. So with the logic of the Republican trickle-down theories, since we've already given tons of money to the rich and the corporations (the rich have made huge gains in the last few years) we should be at 0% unemployment. That is, if trickle down works, since we've trickled tons of wealth the top 1%. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have any money to go buy anything so there is no demand for products and services. We've also flooded-down trillions of dollars to rich bankers so they don't take down our entire financial system.
Businesses don't expand and hire because they have money sitting around, they expand and hire if they think there is a market for their products and services. If there is no demand for their products and services, they return extra cash to their shareholders or buy back stock, which is exactly what is happening.
Let's make an assumption for a moment that all workers in every tax bracket work equally hard for their salary. Sure, there are lazy people barely putting in the time at low-end jobs and CEOs that work their ***** off; but at the same time there are people breaking their backs picking fruit and vegetables under the hot sun for almost nothing and Paris Hilton making millions just for showing up at parties. Let's assume for a moment, that, on average every works equally hard for their pay.
In the last 40 years, the top 1 percent of wage earners have gone from receiving 9 percent of all income to 24 percent today.
So in a sense the top 1 percent is PAYING NO INCOME TAXES AT ALL. Their earnings have skyrocketed so high in the last 40 years that if they would have had gotten the same increases in income as everyone else (remember the first assumption) their pay would be a fraction of their actual income today, so their bonus extra deserved pay actually exceeds their tax liability they pay today on their bloated earnings.
To put it in another way, in the last 30 years, blue collar worker productivity has gone up 45%, while inflation adjusted pay has gone up 1%.
During the same period of time, inflation adjusted CEO pay has gone up around 700%. So if everything was fair, a CEO today now does the 31,500% the work of a CEO 30 years ago (45 x 700). That's amazing!
It's the damand for your product or service that decides if you hire or lay-off and for some ****** republican to suggest it is based on a tax cut speeks volumes about the person saying it and their believers.
Rafter, why are you that dense? Who did this to you?
Again, you didnt answer the question (which isnt surprising).
Now, first off, it is my money in the first place. Where I spend it is of my concern. I could buy a boat for my family. And thus put my money into the economy by giving it to someone else's business to hire people and build the boat.
Or, I can use it to automate my business and become more productive.
Or, it might allow me to increase the pay and benefits of my employees.
Or, it might be a part of the package of a new employee.
You liberal idiots think businesses and businessmen have an endless supply of cash. There is a reason businesses are sitting on their money and not hiring right now. And it isnt because we cant get loans, or any other drivel like that.
It is because of the uncertainty of what is going on in the government.
You see, all of that spending has to be paid back. And since too many Americans think it is my job to pay it back, it behooves me to stay in a position where I can keep my money for being used for those purposes.
So, we wait it out. And a bunch of Americans that could be hired, are not hired. And we sit on our money and we wait.
You have no business sense at all Rafter.
At the end of it all, I really dont pay any taxes. I pay myself what I am worth, to include enough to pay my taxes. You up my taxes? I just pay myself more...and take that money away from somewhere or someone else.
You see ,the rich never pay...and never will when you tax income. What we need to do is tax expenditures. That way, everyone ays and everyone pays the same rate. No one can escape the tax.
Since your business is not part of the tax rates that are in question, why do you bring up the business? The question is what are you doing with the extra few thousand dollars that you are not paying taxes on today?
Jim, I understand what you are saying. The issue is I am NOT going to personally pay more in taxes, just because a bunch of thieves want me to.
So, I will have my company pay me more money to off set the increase in taxes, so I maintain the same amount or more than I have been (you see, the "rich" do not pay taxes!!).
But then, that money has to come out of my business somehow. And now, my business has to find a way to compete with less money.
So again, by taxing me...how am I supposed to have less money but expand my business?
Again, there is no bottome-less pit of money. It all must come from somewhere. And I didnt get into business to have people steal more of what I make, just because they cant stop spending money. That isnt my problem.
Or better said, that is just as much my problem as every other American. Which means every other American needs to pony up the same rate I have to.
The tax rates apply to personal income tax, not business taxes. If the Bush tax cuts were so great for the economy and jobs, why are we now so totally screwed? Belly up and pay your fair share.
Well then you'll keep the tax cut for most of your income. If you're making millions per year I don't think it will hurt that bad to pay the same rates we had when President Clinton was President.
Because the nation needs the dough! You can afford to pay more. Lower income people need everything just to make ends meet. Tax rates were high for your bracket for decades during widespread prosperity. The middle class has already sacrificed jobs and wages. Time for the upper brackets to sacrifice a little.
"On Saturday, Senate Republicans voted down Democratic efforts to limit extension of the Bush-era tax cuts for all but the wealthiest Americans. Five Democratic Senators joined Republicans on one or both of the votes."
This is kind of not actually reporting the full scope of the matter, that being that both the House and Senate voted to pass the tax cut on only income less than $250,000, and end this huge tax cut for income greater than $250,000.
What a handful of Republicans have managed to do is cease filibustering in abstentia, while NOT allowing a 60 vote majority to end this. It is the most aggregious case of hi-jacking democracy without lifting a finger or even making a parliamentary debate about it.
Not sure why Dan Farber is making a case regarding polls (considering if the polls said something different, we're not talking about democratic representation are even the rights of a concerned minority wanting to actively debate in passing legislation, ANYWAY). Just the opposite. Tyranny.
But I guess it's the role of a "free press" to gut our democracy through popular opinion gained from questionable polling anyway. So maybe Dan Farber is upset with McConnell from a competitive standpoint? It is the role of self-righteous corporate media in our plutocracy to create tyranny through distortion, is it not? Not some leather-faced corporate henchman.
This poll is a faulty as the silly CBS poll that claims 80% of Americans want to be cavity searched at airports, or whatever that last piece of nonsense was. Let's start this poll over with the admission that 50% of working Americans don't pay any Federal tax at all, and the assumption that those people will continue to want others to pick up the tax burden. Then proceed with your "poll."
Why would we admit to that fantasy? The "50% of working Americans don't pay any Federal tax" is right wing noise with no basis in fact. The majority of Americans pay more in payroll taxes than income taxes, and payroll taxes are FEDERAL TAXES.
The Republican Senate minority leader has been arguing that the outcome of the midterm elections confers a mandate on Congress to extend the Bush-era tax cuts, which are set to expire Jan. 1.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When America elected the President in 2008 Mr McConnell what did that confer?
There is a recession for the people out of work (their low tide) not for people making $500.000 and up, look @ the zeros, you lawn dart.
In a world where we are all supposed to be treated equal, it is funny how people expect people that make more to pay a higher percentage of taxes. I already pay a higher amount than those making less than $250k. I am not in favor of financial discrimination...just like I am not in favor of racial or gender discrimination. So, to that end, if the public wants those of us to that make more than $250k to bail more of the boat than everyone else, then I want some perks. Specifically: When Social Security goes bust, I want it to go bust for everyone but the top 2%. After all, they are the ones that put the most money in. Same goes for Medicare. I expect free meals. I don't really get anything for all the tax money that I pay for any social programs that benefit me. I want to start seeing some benefit. My taxes are a huge part of our highway system. I want to ride on them tollfree and I want to ride in the fast lane...for free.
I have a whole list of other things I want. I am only in the top 2% so if I am going to be financially discriminated against then I want to be compensated for it. It shouldn't be too much of a problem.
You believe all the garbage you read about zillionaires not paying taxes. I'm sure some of them don't just like many people don't. I'm not in that category. I pay a lot of taxes. The maximum amount actually. In addition, because of what I make, all my itemized deductions go away so I pay an even greater percentage.
Oh it's ok. I worked hard, educated myself, my father grew up in an orphanage. Now that I have done what my country requires of me, go ahead and take more from me. That is what 53% of American's seem to be saying. That doesn't sound to American to me.
I have another idea. I'll just stick my hard earned dollar in my mattress and not invest it. Matter of fact, the whole 2% should do that.
Oh...and I am not asking for a tax cut. I am asking to pay the same "percentage" as everyone else pays. If it is 30% then that is what I expect us all to pay because at the end of the day the bonus goes to those making less than $100k. I don't see any tax breaks or gifts from any social programs. I'm not eligble. Nor do I want more...but what I don't expect is to be discriminated against...nor would you want to be discriminated against pnut.
"When Social Security goes bust, I want it to go bust for everyone but the top 2%. After all, they are the ones that put the most money in."
WRONG -SS is only paid on the first $93K of earned income. In other words, there is a limit as to how much someone like Derek Jeter (or yourself) pays. If you earn a zillion $/year - your contribution to SS is CAPPED.
Rafter, that is why the income tax is an insane and tyrannical way to raise money! We MUST do away with it.
In its place, we institute a national sales tax. That way, EVERYONE pays the same rate when they purchase something. That would do away with much of the IRS. No one need know how much each American makes...which is a good thing! Even people not here legally or earn income illegally would still be paying taxes!
And we all get to decide when we pay taxes, by deciding when we will purchase something.
The income tax is about government control. It is also about wealth redistribution...which we ALL should be against, because it is nothing but organized theft.
Get ten people in the room. One guy has a million dollars. Six guys have between $60k and $100k. Two more are at around $20k, and one guy is unemployed.
So, the 9 guys outside of the millionaire all vote to take 90% of the millionaire's money and redistribute to all of them...in order to get everyone up to the same level.
That is THEFT!!! Organized theft. But libs like it because it was done democratically.
You go right ahead and stick your money in your matress and don't invest it there's still at least 70% of hard working people investing through Mutual Funds and they aren't allowed to short their funds or allowed to vote, that's discrimination.
why on the social security you don't pay on anything over 106 t anyway and don't need it stick your so called hard earned in your mattress who cares.and if you believe people under 250 t don't pay taxes you've been there you know what are you compalining about isn't your spoon big enough yet and what about the debt your leaving your children and all that rot?
"When Social Security goes bust, I want it to go bust for everyone but the top 2%. After all, they are the ones that put the most money in.
Same goes for Medicare."
You really don't know what you're talking about do you?
Giving great credibility to the notion that a lot of high wage "earners" are opportunists who really have an inflated perception of themselves and give nothing uniquely worth their income back to our society other than what they claim they deserve that distinguishes them as anything but a greedy parasite.
Social Security and Medicare are NOT part of your federal income tax. Have you been adding this into your federal taxes paid on your income tax and collecting a refund for this every year? In fact Social Security and Medicare have not been impacted by Bush tax cuts WHATSOFREAKINGEVER. It's because it is capped taxable income and a trust fund separate from taxes collected under federal income tax law, not something funded in large anomalous quantities by the top 2% income bracket at all.
If all of the top 2% income bracket/greedy parasites in the U.S. all died tomorrow and stopped collecting that income, the world would celebrate their passing. That's how much society needs it's top 2%. Most of you aren't doing ANYTHING that we couldn't easily and gladly replace with someone or something else gladly causing much less of a sucking sound on consumers and other taxpayers who can barely afford to make ends meet as it is to make this democracy work. And allow it's children to make decisions on behalf of themselves, not a precursor society who couldn't manage it's greedy or it's deluded and affected reasons for blowing over half of it's federal income tax revenue on "common defense" that is a mask for more upper class welfare programs and cash cow contracts -- through it's own tax revenues.
Freaking INCREDIBLE. If you haven't figured it out, the rest of us have. The stock market is not market driven, it's investor driven. Do you really think the stock market has enough revenue RIGHT NOW, to pay off all "investors" if they all cashed in simultaneously, irregardless of a stock market crash? "Investors" aren't even providing enough capital for their own greed. It's an albatross on our economy, that if not well fed, will hijack our democracy and our economy, and force it to engage in socialism for parasites only -- to the tune of TRILLIONS in free loans, and even worse, money taxpayers of the far future may never see again, or probably never received even when they were told so through clever book-keeping.
I get so sick of hearing about people too greedy to save a democracy and future generation of Americans, but when it comes time for capitalism to run it's course, it's time for socialism -- BIG TIME.
I have a better idea. Stick your "hard earned" dollars in a mattress, burn the mattress and end your life -- the whole 2% of you can do that. And we'd all be very grateful and your void will be filled with another, I can guarantee that. Because what you're providing is not that unique, and what you're taking is FAR TOO MUCH. And the rest of the world seems to do pretty well with fair taxation -- certainly manages to operate without MASSIVE MULTI-TRILLION dollar debt. Can't really say that about the U.S. can you.
In fact, every country that models itself after American capitalism, liberal economics that heavily supports and relies on socialism when it's desired by parasites only, seems to collapse.
If you make more than 250K and pay a higher percentage of taxes you and your tax advisers are absolute morons! With tax shelters and breaks and loop holes you should be paying LESS taxes than a person making about 60K. So I call you on your BS. These tax laws apply to corporations who pay on average 1/10 the taxes per net income than real people. So you can take your distorted reality talk and go preach to the Tea baggers, they'll all love your convoluted chaos theory.
I work very hard and I earn a good living as a result, but my employer is able to earn an enormous amount more as a result of what I do. Yes, I understand the employer has expenses. I have expenses as well--my education wasn't free. I look around myself on a daily basis and see the lower paid employees with their sick children and broken down vehicles and I get it. They are really just barely getting by. They can't pay more than they are paying. I can pay a little more in taxes, so they don't have to insist they're not eating lunch because they're really not hungry. My employer is making a lot of money on the backs of these people, and can afford to pay their little bit more as well.
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Businesses don't expand and hire because they have money sitting around, they expand and hire if they think there is a market for their products and services. If there is no demand for their products and services, they return extra cash to their shareholders or buy back stock, which is exactly what is happening.
In the last 40 years, the top 1 percent of wage earners have gone from receiving 9 percent of all income to 24 percent today.
So in a sense the top 1 percent is PAYING NO INCOME TAXES AT ALL. Their earnings have skyrocketed so high in the last 40 years that if they would have had gotten the same increases in income as everyone else (remember the first assumption) their pay would be a fraction of their actual income today, so their bonus extra deserved pay actually exceeds their tax liability they pay today on their bloated earnings.
To put it in another way, in the last 30 years, blue collar worker productivity has gone up 45%, while inflation adjusted pay has gone up 1%.
During the same period of time, inflation adjusted CEO pay has gone up around 700%. So if everything was fair, a CEO today now does the 31,500% the work of a CEO 30 years ago (45 x 700). That's amazing!
Someone please tell me how taking more of my money in taxes helps me expand my business and pay for more employees.
Let me get this straight...have less money but expected to do more.
Does that sound stupid to you?
Again, you didnt answer the question (which isnt surprising).
Now, first off, it is my money in the first place. Where I spend it is of my concern. I could buy a boat for my family. And thus put my money into the economy by giving it to someone else's business to hire people and build the boat.
Or, I can use it to automate my business and become more productive.
Or, it might allow me to increase the pay and benefits of my employees.
Or, it might be a part of the package of a new employee.
You liberal idiots think businesses and businessmen have an endless supply of cash. There is a reason businesses are sitting on their money and not hiring right now. And it isnt because we cant get loans, or any other drivel like that.
It is because of the uncertainty of what is going on in the government.
You see, all of that spending has to be paid back. And since too many Americans think it is my job to pay it back, it behooves me to stay in a position where I can keep my money for being used for those purposes.
So, we wait it out. And a bunch of Americans that could be hired, are not hired. And we sit on our money and we wait.
You have no business sense at all Rafter.
At the end of it all, I really dont pay any taxes. I pay myself what I am worth, to include enough to pay my taxes. You up my taxes? I just pay myself more...and take that money away from somewhere or someone else.
You see ,the rich never pay...and never will when you tax income. What we need to do is tax expenditures. That way, everyone ays and everyone pays the same rate. No one can escape the tax.
So, I will have my company pay me more money to off set the increase in taxes, so I maintain the same amount or more than I have been (you see, the "rich" do not pay taxes!!).
But then, that money has to come out of my business somehow. And now, my business has to find a way to compete with less money.
So again, by taxing me...how am I supposed to have less money but expand my business?
Again, there is no bottome-less pit of money. It all must come from somewhere. And I didnt get into business to have people steal more of what I make, just because they cant stop spending money. That isnt my problem.
Or better said, that is just as much my problem as every other American. Which means every other American needs to pony up the same rate I have to.
This is kind of not actually reporting the full scope of the matter, that being that both the House and Senate voted to pass the tax cut on only income less than $250,000, and end this huge tax cut for income greater than $250,000.
What a handful of Republicans have managed to do is cease filibustering in abstentia, while NOT allowing a 60 vote majority to end this. It is the most aggregious case of hi-jacking democracy without lifting a finger or even making a parliamentary debate about it.
Not sure why Dan Farber is making a case regarding polls (considering if the polls said something different, we're not talking about democratic representation are even the rights of a concerned minority wanting to actively debate in passing legislation, ANYWAY). Just the opposite. Tyranny.
But I guess it's the role of a "free press" to gut our democracy through popular opinion gained from questionable polling anyway. So maybe Dan Farber is upset with McConnell from a competitive standpoint? It is the role of self-righteous corporate media in our plutocracy to create tyranny through distortion, is it not? Not some leather-faced corporate henchman.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When America elected the President in 2008 Mr McConnell what did that confer?
There is a recession for the people out of work (their low tide) not for people making $500.000 and up, look @ the zeros, you lawn dart.
When Social Security goes bust, I want it to go bust for everyone but the top 2%. After all, they are the ones that put the most money in.
Same goes for Medicare.
I expect free meals. I don't really get anything for all the tax money that I pay for any social programs that benefit me. I want to start seeing some benefit.
My taxes are a huge part of our highway system. I want to ride on them tollfree and I want to ride in the fast lane...for free.
I have a whole list of other things I want. I am only in the top 2% so if I am going to be financially discriminated against then I want to be compensated for it. It shouldn't be too much of a problem.
You believe all the garbage you read about zillionaires not paying taxes. I'm sure some of them don't just like many people don't. I'm not in that category. I pay a lot of taxes. The maximum amount actually. In addition, because of what I make, all my itemized deductions go away so I pay an even greater percentage.
Oh it's ok. I worked hard, educated myself, my father grew up in an orphanage. Now that I have done what my country requires of me, go ahead and take more from me. That is what 53% of American's seem to be saying. That doesn't sound to American to me.
I have another idea. I'll just stick my hard earned dollar in my mattress and not invest it. Matter of fact, the whole 2% should do that.
WRONG -SS is only paid on the first $93K of earned income. In other words, there is a limit as to how much someone like Derek Jeter (or yourself) pays. If you earn a zillion $/year - your contribution to SS is CAPPED.
I own four cars and buy more gas than most people and why is that, because I have more.
In its place, we institute a national sales tax. That way, EVERYONE pays the same rate when they purchase something. That would do away with much of the IRS. No one need know how much each American makes...which is a good thing! Even people not here legally or earn income illegally would still be paying taxes!
And we all get to decide when we pay taxes, by deciding when we will purchase something.
The income tax is about government control. It is also about wealth redistribution...which we ALL should be against, because it is nothing but organized theft.
Get ten people in the room. One guy has a million dollars. Six guys have between $60k and $100k. Two more are at around $20k, and one guy is unemployed.
So, the 9 guys outside of the millionaire all vote to take 90% of the millionaire's money and redistribute to all of them...in order to get everyone up to the same level.
That is THEFT!!! Organized theft. But libs like it because it was done democratically.
It is wrong and it is immoral.
Same goes for Medicare."
You really don't know what you're talking about do you?
Giving great credibility to the notion that a lot of high wage "earners" are opportunists who really have an inflated perception of themselves and give nothing uniquely worth their income back to our society other than what they claim they deserve that distinguishes them as anything but a greedy parasite.
Social Security and Medicare are NOT part of your federal income tax. Have you been adding this into your federal taxes paid on your income tax and collecting a refund for this every year? In fact Social Security and Medicare have not been impacted by Bush tax cuts WHATSOFREAKINGEVER. It's because it is capped taxable income and a trust fund separate from taxes collected under federal income tax law, not something funded in large anomalous quantities by the top 2% income bracket at all.
If all of the top 2% income bracket/greedy parasites in the U.S. all died tomorrow and stopped collecting that income, the world would celebrate their passing. That's how much society needs it's top 2%. Most of you aren't doing ANYTHING that we couldn't easily and gladly replace with someone or something else gladly causing much less of a sucking sound on consumers and other taxpayers who can barely afford to make ends meet as it is to make this democracy work. And allow it's children to make decisions on behalf of themselves, not a precursor society who couldn't manage it's greedy or it's deluded and affected reasons for blowing over half of it's federal income tax revenue on "common defense" that is a mask for more upper class welfare programs and cash cow contracts -- through it's own tax revenues.
Freaking INCREDIBLE. If you haven't figured it out, the rest of us have. The stock market is not market driven, it's investor driven. Do you really think the stock market has enough revenue RIGHT NOW, to pay off all "investors" if they all cashed in simultaneously, irregardless of a stock market crash? "Investors" aren't even providing enough capital for their own greed. It's an albatross on our economy, that if not well fed, will hijack our democracy and our economy, and force it to engage in socialism for parasites only -- to the tune of TRILLIONS in free loans, and even worse, money taxpayers of the far future may never see again, or probably never received even when they were told so through clever book-keeping.
I get so sick of hearing about people too greedy to save a democracy and future generation of Americans, but when it comes time for capitalism to run it's course, it's time for socialism -- BIG TIME.
I have a better idea. Stick your "hard earned" dollars in a mattress, burn the mattress and end your life -- the whole 2% of you can do that. And we'd all be very grateful and your void will be filled with another, I can guarantee that. Because what you're providing is not that unique, and what you're taking is FAR TOO MUCH. And the rest of the world seems to do pretty well with fair taxation -- certainly manages to operate without MASSIVE MULTI-TRILLION dollar debt. Can't really say that about the U.S. can you.
In fact, every country that models itself after American capitalism, liberal economics that heavily supports and relies on socialism when it's desired by parasites only, seems to collapse.
So you can take your distorted reality talk and go preach to the Tea baggers, they'll all love your convoluted chaos theory.