by 8301: "So... Now we have a group of people with no clear political objective except opposition to another group of people"
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Hmmmmm.....you must be talking about the conservitard teabaggin' fools that was formed only in opposition to President Obama.
Apparently the Coffee Party has formed, "objecting to obstructionism and extreme political tactics that are FEAR based, not reality based, and in many ways just deliberate misinformation."
The Coffee Party wants accountable and responsible government -- one that cuts wasteful spending and practices fiscal discipline, one that regulates Wall Street while protecting consumers, and one that can be more efficient by giving us both a better educational system and affordable health care for all citizens with the same amount of money we are currently spending.
Seems to me that the Coffee Party has stated its core principles that have nothing to do with opposition like the teabaggin' fools, opposing everything that President Obama says and does, and even makes up disinformation and misinformation so they have more to oppose.
"The Coffee Party wants accountable and responsible government -- one that cuts wasteful spending and practices fiscal discipline, one that regulates Wall Street while protecting consumers, and one that can be more efficient by giving us both a better educational system and affordable health care for all citizens with the same amount of money we are currently spending"
If this is what you want, then why are you supporting the democrats?
The Coffee Party wants accountable and responsible government -- one that cuts wasteful spending and practices fiscal discipline, one that regulates Wall Street while protecting consumers, and one that can be more efficient by giving us both a better educational system and affordable health care for all citizens with the same amount of money we are currently spending.
Study American History in the 1930's and the many groups that formed, and yes, history does indeed repeat itself. Now with different labels...no new news here...
Sure it could be. Look at Palin asking the Tea Party folks to blend back into the GOP. It is the same concept, and I see some really unnaturally green Astroturf revealed by her words; maybe even the "blue" AstroTurf of Boise State University.
================================
Which of these groups have more members already active in other political groups? The answer is obvious. Palin courting Tea Partiers for the GOP doesn't mean they were started or sustained by seasoned political wonks. This group will most likely be made up of the same leftists who are with moveon.org, the sierra club, etc., etc..
If they start railing against the wasteful spending we are seeing with the current administration and current congress then I will have learned something. I hope I am wrong. But I wouldn't bet on it.
"Which of these groups have more members already active in other political groups?"
Majority is not indicative of validity. And you would have to ignore the concept of "you have to start somewhere". If the Tea Party movements started in a garage with 3 guys and dog, does that diminish its validity as a political movement, no, but analysis of its platform may.
"This group will most likely be made up of the same leftists who are with moveon.org, the sierra club, etc., etc.. "
Completely speculative, but you did have a caveat, so bravissimo.
"We want our government to cut wasteful spending and practice fiscal discipline."
But let me guess...they will not campaign against Obama in 2012 or the Democrats who control congress in 2010.
For me...all wasteful spenders should get the boot. In fact I propose that the federal government be on a budget that consists of a fixed % of the GNP. Then the fight can be over how to spend that fixed amount of money.
As for this group, I smell a political ploy (an astroturf group). I have nothing wrong with someone taking issue with politicians but their angst at Tea Partiers shows their true colors. I will be open minded though and give them a chance to voice their opinions. It's more than the Tea Partiers got from their critics...who by the way only didn't even respect Tea Partiers having opinions in the first place.
Sure it could be. Look at Palin asking the Tea Party folks to blend back into the GOP. It is the same concept, and I see some really unnaturally green Astroturf revealed by her words; maybe even the "blue" AstroTurf of Boise State University.
@contractormikeinfla: -- Unfortunately, the Tea Party attracted just about everyone that has some sort of anger directed at the US Govt, even those that are clearly in need of Medication, or tin-foil hats. There might be some really thoughtful and well-reasoned people in the Tea Party movement, but they've lost control by allowing just about everyone to join in their protesting. They need to put forth just exactly what they really stand for (or are NOT gonna stand for, as the case may be)! When someone can claim to be for the Tea Party, but then turn around and Scream about not Cutting Medicare, they have no clue about what they really want! I wish the Tea Party success in getting Decpeticrat AND Republicon incumbents turned out of Office, but they have got to get more coherent and Rational!
So... Now we have a group of people with no clear political objective except opposition to another group of people with no clear political objective except opposition to the two groups of people in power?
Here's a novel idea: Drop the desire to affiliate oneself with a group with a folksy label, and form your own political opinions. If you absolutely have to, you can tell people you're part of the "water party movement".
As much as I would like to believe it, an individual has very little leverage in a Global society. Affiliation with an organize group can give your ideas a voice. I cannot afford a political ad, I cannot afford a lobbyist. So within the rules of this game, you will at some point have to choose sides or be relegated to the sidelines.
I am not saying do not be cynical of your government, union, political Party. Make them do what you want, since they are there supposedly to represent you. All I see from both Parties has been representation of paper entities above the citizen and by extension, established wealth.
The Water Party ? Let's get back to the basics! Food, shelter, access to non-profit health insurance, and clean drinking water for all Americans! If we can't afford public works projects for the unemployed, we can't afford two wars!
Coffee parties are just one more place for liberal elites to gather, tell each other how great and smart they are, chant kum-baa-yaa and then bad mouth the opposition. I hope you enjoy yourselves.
I do not understand the anti-intellectual rants from the Right. When did intelligence become a bad word? And when did it become the sole domain of a given Party? There are plenty of "intellectuals" on the Right or on Wall Street for that matter. What is important, is what they do with that intellect.
I think a better argument would be against arrogance and hubris, not intelligence.
by -One_American: "The Coffee Party is just another Progressive activist group asking for more from the government"
----------------------------
Aaaaaah.....more of that conservitard teabaggin' political rhetoric, which only includes attacks on President Obama, with a most ignorant attitude.
"We want jobs with decent pay for all Americans," the Coffee Party declares on its Facebook page. "We want affordable health care and education. We want our government to cut wasteful spending and practice fiscal discipline. We want regulation of Wall Street to protect consumers and promotion of financial literacy."
You continue to prove my point, that conservitard teabaggers have NO SOLUTIONS and NO NEW IDEAS -- just MORE OF THE SAME that mirrors the past 30 years of conservitard policies and ideology that gave us the huge deficits and an out-of-control military/industrial complex.
Sorry, but wanting a more responsible government, able to cut wasteful spending while practicing fiscal discipline, providing a good educational system and affordable health care without mafioso skimmers taking the cream off the top, and protecting WE THE PEOPLE from those "TOO BIG TO FAIL," is just making government more efficient -- not elected officials calling "government the problem."
by bruce691: "You people are pathetic. You vote one group of people are your upset they don't fix monumental problem created by the last group of people you voted in. Now you going to vote in a new group of people in and expect quick solutions to complex problems. In two years you'll want to vote those people out. There's one common thread that stands out with these decisions."
----------------------------
Actually, that's probably truer than most people want to admit, and not only do we have one party replacing the other as the majority party, but the one in power is certainly suseptible to corruption with so many special interests and their lobbyists pulling the strings. Until we get the MONEY out of politics, we will continue to have bought-and-paid-for congresscritters, and WE THE PEOPLE will always be the losers.
We just keep re-electing Corporatists. The financial sector has yet to re-regulated and the recent growth in the stock market has nearly be exclusively in the financial sector. They are right back to cooking up new derivatives and default credit swaps. Either Obama is hamstrung or he one of the Corporatists.
We just keep re-electing Corporatists. The Financial Sector has yet to be re-regulated and the recent growth in the stock market has been exclusively in the financial sector. They are right back to cooking up new derivatives and default credit swaps. Either Obama is hamstrung or he is one of the Corporatists
by curse914:
"They are right back to cooking up new derivatives and default credit swaps."
------------------
Yep.....and without any new financial regulations to hobble these GREEDY corporatocracy manipulators, we're going to find ourselves right back in the same position, but worse -- over the cliff instead of just at the precipice!
by ajvw March 12, 2010 2:33 PM EST "the Coffee Party movement is organizing to represent citizens who believe in government solutions for national problems"
these people have never read the coffee cup in the picture
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TRANSLATION of the above post:
People who do not think like me are not "real" Americans. People who do not think like me must not respect the founding document of OUR country because they choose their own path, rather than blindly following the one I walk. People who do not think like me do not have the protections of the US Constitution such as "free speech and right to assembly".
----
Sorry ajvw -- While I would not stoop to your level and accuse you of never reading the US Constitution, I can say without error that your own written-for-all-to-see comment here shows you don't understand the meaning of the document.
I find that sad and I hope you one day do understand. We are a diverse country but we are all Americans -- conservatives, moderates, liberals and any mix of these -- any comment to the contrary is just plain wrong.
We have Government interference and look at what we got? Mortgage meltdown,Over spending and a run away Deficit. Every program the Government tries to run becomes a mess, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid,Immigration,workers visas,Stimulis spending,Bailouts,Business take overs,Etc,Etc,Etc.
Government _____ Dregulation ______ allowed the meltdown of our economy.
Over spending is a problem, but it did not cause the collapse of our economy that you are witnessing.
] snip [
Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.
Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.
Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.
Federal Reserve Board data show that:
* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.
* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.
* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's
==============
StormerF2, try a little intellectual honesty for once in your life.
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"So... Now we have a group of people with no clear political objective except opposition to another group of people"
-----------------------------
Hmmmmm.....you must be talking about the conservitard teabaggin' fools that was formed only in opposition to President Obama.
Apparently the Coffee Party has formed, "objecting to obstructionism and extreme political tactics that are FEAR based, not reality based, and in many ways just deliberate misinformation."
The Coffee Party wants accountable and responsible government -- one that cuts wasteful spending and practices fiscal discipline, one that regulates Wall Street while protecting consumers, and one that can be more efficient by giving us both a better educational system and affordable health care for all citizens with the same amount of money we are currently spending.
Seems to me that the Coffee Party has stated its core principles that have nothing to do with opposition like the teabaggin' fools, opposing everything that President Obama says and does, and even makes up disinformation and misinformation so they have more to oppose.
If this is what you want, then why are you supporting the democrats?
Sure it could be. Look at Palin asking the Tea Party folks to blend back into the GOP. It is the same concept, and I see some really unnaturally green Astroturf revealed by her words; maybe even the "blue" AstroTurf of Boise State University.
================================
Which of these groups have more members already active in other political groups? The answer is obvious. Palin courting Tea Partiers for the GOP doesn't mean they were started or sustained by seasoned political wonks. This group will most likely be made up of the same leftists who are with moveon.org, the sierra club, etc., etc..
If they start railing against the wasteful spending we are seeing with the current administration and current congress then I will have learned something. I hope I am wrong. But I wouldn't bet on it.
"Which of these groups have more members already active in other political groups?"
Majority is not indicative of validity. And you would have to ignore the concept of "you have to start somewhere". If the Tea Party movements started in a garage with 3 guys and dog, does that diminish its validity as a political movement, no, but analysis of its platform may.
"This group will most likely be made up of the same leftists who are with moveon.org, the sierra club, etc., etc.. "
Completely speculative, but you did have a caveat, so bravissimo.
But let me guess...they will not campaign against Obama in 2012 or the Democrats who control congress in 2010.
For me...all wasteful spenders should get the boot. In fact I propose that the federal government be on a budget that consists of a fixed % of the GNP. Then the fight can be over how to spend that fixed amount of money.
As for this group, I smell a political ploy (an astroturf group). I have nothing wrong with someone taking issue with politicians but their angst at Tea Partiers shows their true colors. I will be open minded though and give them a chance to voice their opinions. It's more than the Tea Partiers got from their critics...who by the way only didn't even respect Tea Partiers having opinions in the first place.
-- Unfortunately, the Tea Party attracted just about everyone that has some sort of anger directed at the US Govt, even those that are clearly in need of Medication, or tin-foil hats. There might be some really thoughtful and well-reasoned people in the Tea Party movement, but they've lost control by allowing just about everyone to join in their protesting.
They need to put forth just exactly what they really stand for (or are NOT gonna stand for, as the case may be)!
When someone can claim to be for the Tea Party, but then turn around and Scream about not Cutting Medicare, they have no clue about what they really want! I wish the Tea Party success in getting Decpeticrat AND Republicon incumbents turned out of Office, but they have got to get more coherent and Rational!
Here's a novel idea: Drop the desire to affiliate oneself with a group with a folksy label, and form your own political opinions. If you absolutely have to, you can tell people you're part of the "water party movement".
I am not saying do not be cynical of your government, union, political Party. Make them do what you want, since they are there supposedly to represent you. All I see from both Parties has been representation of paper entities above the citizen and by extension, established wealth.
I think a better argument would be against arrogance and hubris, not intelligence.
"The Coffee Party is just another Progressive activist group asking for more from the government"
----------------------------
Aaaaaah.....more of that conservitard teabaggin' political rhetoric, which only includes attacks on President Obama, with a most ignorant attitude.
"We want jobs with decent pay for all Americans," the Coffee Party declares on its Facebook page. "We want affordable health care and education. We want our government to cut wasteful spending and practice fiscal discipline. We want regulation of Wall Street to protect consumers and promotion of financial literacy."
You continue to prove my point, that conservitard teabaggers have NO SOLUTIONS and NO NEW IDEAS -- just MORE OF THE SAME that mirrors the past 30 years of conservitard policies and ideology that gave us the huge deficits and an out-of-control military/industrial complex.
"You people are pathetic. You vote one group of people are your upset they don't fix monumental problem created by the last group of people you voted in. Now you going to vote in a new group of people in and expect quick solutions to complex problems. In two years you'll want to vote those people out. There's one common thread that stands out with these decisions."
----------------------------
Actually, that's probably truer than most people want to admit, and not only do we have one party replacing the other as the majority party, but the one in power is certainly suseptible to corruption with so many special interests and their lobbyists pulling the strings. Until we get the MONEY out of politics, we will continue to have bought-and-paid-for congresscritters, and WE THE PEOPLE will always be the losers.
We just keep re-electing Corporatists. The Financial Sector has yet to be re-regulated and the recent growth in the stock market has been exclusively in the financial sector. They are right back to cooking up new derivatives and default credit swaps. Either Obama is hamstrung or he is one of the Corporatists
"They are right back to cooking up new derivatives and default credit swaps."
------------------
Yep.....and without any new financial regulations to hobble these GREEDY corporatocracy manipulators, we're going to find ourselves right back in the same position, but worse -- over the cliff instead of just at the precipice!
"the Coffee Party movement is organizing to represent citizens who believe in government solutions for national problems"
these people have never read the coffee cup in the picture
***********************
TRANSLATION of the above post:
People who do not think like me are not "real" Americans. People who do not think like me must not respect the founding document of OUR country because they choose their own path, rather than blindly following the one I walk. People who do not think like me do not have the protections of the US Constitution such as "free speech and right to assembly".
----
Sorry ajvw -- While I would not stoop to your level and accuse you of never reading the US Constitution, I can say without error that your own written-for-all-to-see comment here shows you don't understand the meaning of the document.
I find that sad and I hope you one day do understand. We are a diverse country but we are all Americans -- conservatives, moderates, liberals and any mix of these -- any comment to the contrary is just plain wrong.
Over spending is a problem, but it did not cause the collapse of our economy that you are witnessing.
] snip [
Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.
Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.
Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.
Federal Reserve Board data show that:
* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.
* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.
* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's
==============
StormerF2, try a little intellectual honesty for once in your life.