>Earlier in the day, some 30,000 people filled a broad boulevard as they marched along a lake in central Benghazi on Friday to the gates of the headquarters of Ansar al-Shariah.
>Other signs mourned the killing of Stevens, reading, "The ambassador was Libya's friend" and "Libya lost a friend." Military helicopters and fighter jets flew overhead, and police mingled in the crowd, buoyed by the support of the protesters.
>But now, the residents are lashing out against Ansar al-Shariah, the main Islamic extremist group in the city.
>"The killing of the ambassador blew up the situation. It was disastrous," said Ayoub al-Shedwi, a young bearded Muslim preacher in Darna who says he has received multiple death threats because has spoken out against militias on a radio show he hosts. "We felt that the revolution is going in vain."
>Leaders of tribes, which are the strongest social force in eastern Libya, have come forward to demand that the militias disband. Tribal leaders in Benghazi and Darna announced this week that members of their tribes who are militiamen will no longer have their protection in the face of anti-militia protests. That means the tribe will not avenge them if they are killed.
How much of the religious views justifying violence are supportable within a context where one or one's loved ones are already receiving violence or are very threatened? The middle east has been immersed in such a context for a while (not just from external groups but from "indiscriminate" terrorism inside and from one's own tyrannical government).
The mind must cope. In that context, venting "for god" certainly feels acceptable and as a way to create some boundaries (red lines) that might be respected.
Just let them burn their homes down. I don't understand why we get so upset that they are protesting. We should back away and let them have at it and when they ask for help to rebuild, we should show them the video of how they've acted for the last 1000 years and just say no.
It is past time to stop cowering in fear of rioting Muslims. The West stands for freedom of thought and expression and we can never accept the censor of that. A perfect world has all people tolerant of seemingly bizzare rituals, beliefs and behavoirs as long as no harm comes to those who do not concur. When a segment supports harm, it is time for a unified voice to state without reservation, "NO" and back it up.
I used to be at least a little sympathetic to how Muslims are often perceived, but after this latest round of total violent reaction to a movie I no longer am.
You burn my flag and attack and murder innocent people, you become my enemy. Muslims can no longer hide behind the word "extremism" and say it is just the extremists that are a problem. The scale and scope of the violent protests going on around the world right now is far to large to be considered just a "fringe" element. Clearly the Muslim religion IS a problem. I never accepted that until this week. Good job Muslim protestors, you are convincing every non-Muslim around the world to reject your faith.
>> You burn my flag and attack and murder innocent people, you become my enemy.
Where you equating the burning of a flag with performing a sinful intolerable act (Mohammed image, etc)?
Good point. I suppose some people's religion requires they uphold a flag till the end and fight off as necessary anyone who desecrates it. I wonder if some people with that religion will now go and kill because of the flag burning they saw on TV.
In conclusion, if people can't tolerate other's free speech, they are asking that their speech not be tolerated and that violence just the same be returned in kind. Sounds logical to me.
>> The scale and scope of the violent protests going on around the world right now is far to large to be considered just a "fringe" element. ...Clearly the Muslim religion IS a problem.
I would instead say that a combination of anger widespread in some places and some riling up by some spiritual leaders has created these problems. Generally peaceful nations are reacting peacefully (or much more so) and nations where violence has been strong or who identify with those suffering (note the pain going on in Syria today) are more likely to be violent. Of course, a number of spiritual leaders are condemning the violence and many many Muslims in many nations have not done any violent protests or even protests. I mean if a nation has over 50 million people with a majority being Muslims and protests of total much less than 1 million take place, then obviously not everyone is protesting (and not everyone protesting is being violent). [I admit I haven't looked at the numbers so tell me if you disagree.]
Anyway, keep in mind that if you are told that your ticket to salvation and to being a good person on Earth requires that you demonstrate the insult is intolerable, then you will feel guilty if you don't do something. I suspect these demonstrations are a collective venting and that moving forward after analyzing the collective behavior of some, that numerous teachers of the faith will shift to the peaceful side of teachings. So that more people tomorrow will find it acceptable to demonstrate peacefully or use their wits in some other way or feel comfortable allowing the insults to slide off as ignorance etc etc.
this comment has no real meaning, you have to compare apples to apples. If we cannot see the differences between the cultures or people in your statement, than we will be fighting wars for ever. I was waiting for the punch line. Sorry but they are just to different to compare.
>> If you attack black, it is racism, if you attack Jew, it is antisemitism, and if you attack muslim, it is free speech.
At least one difference exists with "blacks". That difference is that a Muslim (or Jew) is defined by his/her belief, while the other two cases are about a person's physical nature or origin. While a person can't change how they were born (or where, etc), they can pick up and adjust their beliefs. Of course, for many, being a Muslim or Jew is a cultural issue and forms a part of what they have learned from an early age and what they are like (aside from any further religious views or their lack).
But anyway, these are all free speech, some of it will be tasteless and may make you enemies, yes. In fact, some people might anger other people who then smartly explain back why they are hurt or offended and may lead the person insulting to apologize and change [eg, see the apology Paris Hilton recently made about comments she made against "gay men".]
Any of us could have been born in another's body or condition. Keep in mind what you think about someone, you are thinking about yourself had you been in that position.
Islam and all the other religious cults better get used to it. Their time has come and gone. There is more, lots more, ridicule to come.
All religions die of the same disease...being found out. The bright lights of the information age are burning holes in their ridiculous myths.
All of humanity should be ashamed of our acceptance of religious superstition and its elevation to an undeserved status.
It is astounding that otherwise intelligent people allow their lives to be governed by superstitions of primitive tribalists from 2,000 years and longer ago.
Our culture and the world are dominated by these sick cults. They keep humanity in a perpetual state of war; promote ignorance and superstition while accruing wealth, power and sexual gratification from their willing victims.
It is past time for humanity to leave religion to our primitive past.
Religion poisons everything, beginning with childhood.
must be hard finding any American flags around there. Naming half their boys Mohammed must be some kind of an insult to their prophet, I don't see any of them living up to the perfect ideal.
No more than people who name their kids Jesus, mostly in Mexico.
It's related to the Second Commandment forbidding graven images of all types (KJV). The Qu'ran has a similar verse.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. "
Theirs just happens to include Mohammed, and their extremists just happen to be insane when it comes to the topic.
Flooding them with media mocking Islam will dilute the effectiveness of their protests. They will be as violent as they want in the name of their religion regardless of the reason they choose. At some point in time, if they have any ability to rationalize at all, they will realize they cannot control world thought.
Flooding them with media mocking Islam will dilute the effectiveness of their protests. --------------------- You may change your mind if your life is threatened...
Honestly, it's a 12th-century culture. If you know you're whacking a hornet nest, don't expect pretty results.
Of course I blame the extremists, but I also blame the fools who are surprised when the 'hornets' come after them.
The ideal situation is to find a way to treat the nest so that what come out are not hornets (but little bees) and progress can be made at a much lower risk than if a stick had been used to whack it.
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>Other signs mourned the killing of Stevens, reading, "The ambassador was Libya's friend" and "Libya lost a friend." Military helicopters and fighter jets flew overhead, and police mingled in the crowd, buoyed by the support of the protesters.
>But now, the residents are lashing out against Ansar al-Shariah, the main Islamic extremist group in the city.
>"The killing of the ambassador blew up the situation. It was disastrous," said Ayoub al-Shedwi, a young bearded Muslim preacher in Darna who says he has received multiple death threats because has spoken out against militias on a radio show he hosts. "We felt that the revolution is going in vain."
>Leaders of tribes, which are the strongest social force in eastern Libya, have come forward to demand that the militias disband. Tribal leaders in Benghazi and Darna announced this week that members of their tribes who are militiamen will no longer have their protection in the face of anti-militia protests. That means the tribe will not avenge them if they are killed.
The mind must cope. In that context, venting "for god" certainly feels acceptable and as a way to create some boundaries (red lines) that might be respected.
Religion poisons everything, beginning with childhood.
Showing your true colours again ?
Did you shine your little boots for the Zeig Heil Festival ?
You burn my flag and attack and murder innocent people, you become my enemy. Muslims can no longer hide behind the word "extremism" and say it is just the extremists that are a problem. The scale and scope of the violent protests going on around the world right now is far to large to be considered just a "fringe" element. Clearly the Muslim religion IS a problem. I never accepted that until this week. Good job Muslim protestors, you are convincing every non-Muslim around the world to reject your faith.
You mean you don't have something older than 1844 to give us ?
Where you equating the burning of a flag with performing a sinful intolerable act (Mohammed image, etc)?
Good point. I suppose some people's religion requires they uphold a flag till the end and fight off as necessary anyone who desecrates it. I wonder if some people with that religion will now go and kill because of the flag burning they saw on TV.
In conclusion, if people can't tolerate other's free speech, they are asking that their speech not be tolerated and that violence just the same be returned in kind. Sounds logical to me.
>> The scale and scope of the violent protests going on around the world right now is far to large to be considered just a "fringe" element. ...Clearly the Muslim religion IS a problem.
I would instead say that a combination of anger widespread in some places and some riling up by some spiritual leaders has created these problems. Generally peaceful nations are reacting peacefully (or much more so) and nations where violence has been strong or who identify with those suffering (note the pain going on in Syria today) are more likely to be violent. Of course, a number of spiritual leaders are condemning the violence and many many Muslims in many nations have not done any violent protests or even protests. I mean if a nation has over 50 million people with a majority being Muslims and protests of total much less than 1 million take place, then obviously not everyone is protesting (and not everyone protesting is being violent). [I admit I haven't looked at the numbers so tell me if you disagree.]
Anyway, keep in mind that if you are told that your ticket to salvation and to being a good person on Earth requires that you demonstrate the insult is intolerable, then you will feel guilty if you don't do something. I suspect these demonstrations are a collective venting and that moving forward after analyzing the collective behavior of some, that numerous teachers of the faith will shift to the peaceful side of teachings. So that more people tomorrow will find it acceptable to demonstrate peacefully or use their wits in some other way or feel comfortable allowing the insults to slide off as ignorance etc etc.
Similarly, if a brown person goes in church and kills 6 people, he is a terrorist. If a white man goes in Sikh temple and kills 6, he is just nuts.
Just ask him or just wait.
At least one difference exists with "blacks". That difference is that a Muslim (or Jew) is defined by his/her belief, while the other two cases are about a person's physical nature or origin. While a person can't change how they were born (or where, etc), they can pick up and adjust their beliefs. Of course, for many, being a Muslim or Jew is a cultural issue and forms a part of what they have learned from an early age and what they are like (aside from any further religious views or their lack).
But anyway, these are all free speech, some of it will be tasteless and may make you enemies, yes. In fact, some people might anger other people who then smartly explain back why they are hurt or offended and may lead the person insulting to apologize and change [eg, see the apology Paris Hilton recently made about comments she made against "gay men".]
Any of us could have been born in another's body or condition. Keep in mind what you think about someone, you are thinking about yourself had you been in that position.
All religions die of the same disease...being found out. The bright lights of the information age are burning holes in their ridiculous myths.
All of humanity should be ashamed of our acceptance of religious superstition and its elevation to an undeserved status.
It is astounding that otherwise intelligent people allow their lives to be governed by superstitions of primitive tribalists from 2,000 years and longer ago.
Our culture and the world are dominated by these sick cults. They keep humanity in a perpetual state of war; promote ignorance and superstition while accruing wealth, power and sexual gratification from their willing victims.
It is past time for humanity to leave religion to our primitive past.
Religion poisons everything, beginning with childhood.
It's related to the Second Commandment forbidding graven images of all types (KJV). The Qu'ran has a similar verse.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. "
Theirs just happens to include Mohammed, and their extremists just happen to be insane when it comes to the topic.
---------------------
You may change your mind if your life is threatened...
Honestly, it's a 12th-century culture. If you know you're whacking a hornet nest, don't expect pretty results.
Of course I blame the extremists, but I also blame the fools who are surprised when the 'hornets' come after them.
The ideal situation is to find a way to treat the nest so that what come out are not hornets (but little bees) and progress can be made at a much lower risk than if a stick had been used to whack it.