Comments on: The Income Tax System is Broken

43 Percent Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax, A Sign That Something's Wrong, Writes Declan McCullagh

[libertarianone]

SOLUTION------------'THE FAIRTAX' The richer you are,the more you spend,the more you pay.
FairTax -you only get taxed 23% of what you SPEND,not 30% of everything you EARN,like you do now.I does away with the IRS,saving millions in compliance costs and eliminates a whole bureaucracy. House of Representatives Bill # HR25

[incog-nito]

Scrap the income tax and replace it with a sales tax. Want it to be progressive? Apply higher rates to luxury items. Think of all the time and money saved, all the bureaucracy and paper-pushers eliminated, and the mental stress reduced.

Problem solved.

[incog-nito]

Scrap the income tax and replace it with a sales tax. Want it to be progressive? Apply higher rates to luxury items. Think of all the time and money saved, all the bureaucracy and paper-pushers eliminated, and the mental stress reduced.

Problem solved.

[cmadison1225]

Anyone who thinks the "rich" don't pay enough taxes should have his/her head examined. If you took away the tax revenues paid by filers in the top five percent, there would be very little left! By the way, Warren Buffet never said his secretary pays more taxes than him - (would you really believe that ???) - his comment concerns income tax rates: he was comparing the long-term capital gain rate to that paid on ordinary income.

[cdegolier]

Eventually there won't be enough working, taxpaying AMERICANS to foot the bill for all non working, non paying Americans as well as supporting Mexico's entire country.

[cbs_tom]

"That is correct - but that is also not the point of raising those taxes on the wealthy. The point is that right now since the wealthy pay so little taxes "
Posted by tmittelstaed at 12:59 PM : Apr 15, 2009

You are aware of course that the top 5% of the country pay 50% of the taxes.
They with loopholes may pay a less percentage, but still pay more $.

[tmittelstaed]

"...What is being ignored right now is that the middle class has always borne the majority of the tax burden. Obama's plan to raise taxes on only the top 5% will never, ever be enough revenue to run even the most frugal govenment, which of course ours is not...." ---Posted by nottellin1

That is correct - but that is also not the point of raising those taxes on the wealthy. The point is that right now since the wealthy pay so little taxes they really don't give a d a n m if the government buys $500 hammers, or $5 billion dollar helicopters which don't work. If the wealthy - who control the political operations in the US - actually saw their pocketbooks affected they would be much more interested in pressuring their congresspeople to rein in spending and balance the budget, as well as put some regulation on the banks so that the bankers don't go hog-wild and throw the economy into the crapper.

Right now the government is like a candy store with no prices on it to the rich. They don't like their oil profits affected, hey no problem we will just have the government invade Iraq, don't cost us anything. It wasn't the rich protesting the waste of money on the Iraq war - why should they, it wasn't their money being wasted!!! It was the middle-class's money.

[tmittelstaed]

"...I worked hard to get where I'm at. You need to work hard too if you want to live the way I do. BTW, I'm making less than 100k a year...." Posted by speakinup at 8:5

So is AdAgencyOwner. And so am I. We are all in the same boat, and that's the ScrewedOverMiddleClass.

Take a look at economic demographics. Yes, the rich (ie: someone taking home more than $200K a year in my book) get a lot of money. But if you add all of the wealth of everyone making more than that amount together, it cannot hold a candle to the total wealth owned by the middle class.

If you take a close look at the tax code, as well as housing prices and consumer prices, you will find that the taxes are basically setup to leave everyone in the middle class NETTING roughly the same amount of money. Sure, you can find a few people who buck the trend - like the doctor making $120K a year, paying $1K a month in mortgage and driving a used car, or the middle manager making $60K a year, paying $700 a month in mortgage and not even owning a car, just using mass-transit, who are actually socking away significant amounts of money. But most of the rest of us, the government and corps. have figured us out and have figured out how to extract just about all of the money we make, leaving just enough for us to work like dogs our entire career then reverse-mortgage our homes when we are old, and end up dying with just enough money to pay for a decent burial, and nothing to leave to our kids. And, they have done this PRECISELY because we, the middle class, own most of the wealth.

The government couldn't possibly fund itself if the middle class stopped paying taxes, no matter even if they went to a 90% tax rate on the rich - which, by the way, WAS THE ACTUAL RATE OF TAXES 50-some years ago. The rich simply don't have the money - and over the last 50 years have been using the extra time on their hands to influence politicians to drop tax rates on the wealthy from 90% to 70% to 50% to 30% and now to 15%. The middle class are too busy surviving to have the time for this, and as for the poor, both the middle class and the rich would just as soon see the poor all go die in a hole somewhere.

Yes, the poor (someone taking home less than $40K a year) don't pay a lot of taxes, but even if they did (which they can't afford to) what the government would get out of them is a pittance. Rather than taxing them, the government gets more money out of the poor by tricks like allowing gasoline prices to rise to $4 a gallon then pulling in huge amounts of money in sales and income taxes on everyone handling fuel from the point it's dug up out of the ground. All those windfall profits the oil companies got last year? Most went to stock dividends to stock owned by 401K funds the middle class own - and the money from them was used to offset the losses in the bank stocks. In other words, the poor people ended up paying for the bank failures - not by direct taxes, but by the higher fuel prices they paid. It's much more efficient to get money out of the poor this way, and if the poor complain the government can take the holier-than-thou attitude that mass-transit exists and you should use it and save fuel and the environment.

So, the government is getting it's pound of flesh out of the poor, as rightfully it should - since the poor take more money from the government than they ever put in. What is really cocked up is taxes on the rich - and that's due to 30 years of this trickle=down nonsense Ronnie Raygun spoon fed the morons.

[Solarrays247]

Remember Warren Buffet stating that his secretary pays more income tax than he does?

I wouldn't know what it is like NOT to pay any income tax, although I've been tempted, especially when I think of all the corporations and individuals hiding behind some dubious tax codes, and/or sheltering their monies in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

While I am tired of supporting people too lazy to work, I am also sick and tired of paying for the wealthy, and corporate tax evasions.

[tomanyt]

"The Income Tax System is Broken"...Really? I think we knew that.

[nottellin1]

Lets take a look at the numbers in terms of votes shall we? I believe the 43% of Ameicans that pay no taxes are a big enough block to vote anyone into office. Add the number of illegal aliiens that are fradulently voting, that our authorities refuse to even look at and the problem becomes much bigger.

What is being ignored right now is that the middle class has always borne the majority of the tax burden. Obama's plan to raise taxes on only the top 5% will never, ever be enough revenue to run even the most frugal govenment, which of course ours is not.

[The_Omegaman]

Because for those living on tight budgets, 15% can break the bank -- whereas those profiting excessively, ....

>>> Those ?profiting excessively?? It should say ? ?Those who WORK, pay their bills; learn something to improve their lives and their families lives, and those who support the rest who do not. And, just what is ?excessive? and who decides? I assume from reading your post, you think it should be the government. Sounds like socialism to me. You socialist should learn, understand, and never forget that our government is a free republican form of government not a socialist dictatorship, as it is now ever faster becoming. I, and every other INDIVIDUAL have the right to decide where my hard earned money goes, and to refuse to allow it to be taken and given to those who are ?living on tight budgets?. . <<<

There's a case to be made for no income tax at all, of course, except for those reaping the greatest monetary rewards ...

>>> And, ?those reaping the greatest rewards??, should much more accurately say ? ?those EARNING the greatest??. It is NOT a reward (i.e. something bestoyed on someone for something they did or said), but a result of their long hours or hard work, their being intelligent enough to get a education, their desire to support their own families. It is called character, responsibility, and a benefit to society rather than a burden. It seems that you just hate ?rich? people, although you cannot even define what that means. Try and get a job from a ?poor? person, and live off your wages. You, of course, could not and would need your neighbors to support you though the government?s big forceful hand, taking from the workers and giving to the leaches.<<<

For 9 out of 10 Americans, sales taxes alone should be levied, and only for 'non-essentials' -- "luxury' and 'sin' taxes, ...

>>> I cannot disagree with your sentiments here except to say it should be ALL Americans who pay a sales tax on ?non-essentials?. Any tax that is applied to only a select group of Americans is both immoral and unconstitutional. Equal protection extends to property.<<<

On the other hand, those paying no taxes at all should receive no "tax returns" or other tax-time cash benefits from the Fed.
>>> AMEN!<<<

And (to stray off the subject a little) we need to do away with automatic welfare for 'single' mothers...

>>> Again, I agree. This cycle is a direct result of socialism and the disease of liberalism. Liberalism, has taught the young, uneducated, or just ignorant of this country that they are somehow owed something from everybody else simply because they were born. The only way to break the cycle is to totally remove liberalism from the face of the planet and the most important necessity to do this is true education. Government run schools, controlled by the liberal democrats for 50 years now are showing us all their results today. So called ?sex education? in elementary schools taught today should be removed and replaced with the true HISTORY of our country..<<<

Rash as it may sound,...

>>> You proposed solution is Draconian. Individual freedom trumps ALL other concerns, period. No, the way to fix this and stop these girls from having babies and boys from producing them is again EDUCATION. If these people had some common sense, had real education, and have their brains un-brainwashed of liberalism, most would decide for themselves that this life still is destructive not only to them, but the rest of society.<<<

Of course, good luck passing such laws, with the Religious Right bloviating about being 'fruitful' versus 'killing babies'! ...

>>> No, if ?they? had their way there would be NO murdering of innocent and helpless babies. Abortion is an abrogation to mankind, immoral, and unconstitutional. I am sure that you will disagree with this, and in particular the unconstitutionality statement. It used to be unconstitutional according to the US Supreme Court, and without a single word of the US Constitution changing, another set of 9 judges have since decided differently. The prior decision is the right one. .<<<

At some point hard choices about hard realities are going to have to be made, by all of us. Not at all pleasant -- but I'd argue that we are now at or nearing that point.

>>> Yes, hard choices must be made but that does NOT mean that people with morals, intelligence, good work ethics, responsible, and knowledgeable enough to know their constitutional rights are going to be the ones who suffer even more than they do now. It is GOVERNMENT that should suffer. It is government that should shrink, not my paycheck. It is government and those who support it that should be reined in to be compliant to our constitution, not my freedom. <<<

Omegaman

(Apologies for digressing.)

[bhooks2]

This progression of the untaxed is sad but predictable. Since ancient Rome, the life of a all democracies have been marked by this same trend. Eventually, there are not enough people working and paying taxes to support government hand-outs to those on welfare. The democracy collapses-it's been true for all democarcies in our past and it's happening again.

[ioweign]

Corporate welfare is a term describing a government's bestowal of money grants, tax breaks, or other special favorable treatment on corporations or select corporations.
Posted by ioweign
--------------------------------------

You know, those places that provide jobs to those too scared or stupid to have their own Corp.
Posted by hollysbaby at 4:29 AM : Apr 15, 2009

And just how much do you get to write-off for taxes, hollysbaby??

[speakinup]

"If you can't handle 15%, it's time to change the way you live. I pay 46% of my salary and beleive me, I'm not even close to wealthy. Trade lives with me, and I promise you'll run right back to your cushy little government protected paradise.
Posted by AdAgencyOwner

AMEN !

Don't expect a McDonalds job to provide your needs.

I worked hard to get where I'm at. You need to work hard too if you want to live the way I do. BTW, I'm making less than 100k a year.

[speakinup]

I don't mind paying my FAIR share.

My fair share does NOT include a "rebate" to someone that paid no taxes at all. That is communistic, PERIOD.

My fair share does not include paying for abortions, unless the mother's life is at risk. I'm tired of paying for THE most expensive form birth control, which also happens to be murder.

My fair share does NOT include pork spending so that some do nothing congressman/woman can keep their job.

My fair share does not include hair brained ideas for energy when the current technology is being allowed to go fallow. As much as I want clean air, I don't want to fuel OPEC's coffers until we can be free of oil.

My fair share does not include paying for bigger government when what is really needed is private sector employment.

My fair share does not include guarantying happiness for everyone. The phrase reads "the pursuit of happiness", not guarantee happiness.

Yes, I DO believe CEO and other high ranking private sector pay has gotten out of hand. I believe baseball players, movie actors, and may others are paid too much too.

ANYONE can act - look at Obama.

Our national past time has become a VERY expensive joke to watch. I've gotten to the point where I don't care to see millionaires play.

[AdAgencyOwner]

"Because for those living on tight budgets, 15% can break the bank -- whereas those profiting excessively, from the freedoms our great nation and Constitution provide, owe America more for their wealth and success. "

If a 15% flat tax would break the bank, just think what 43% feels like!!! And why should anyone who took a risk, putting their savings on the line, owe MORE??? We don't OWE it to America - the people these "wealthy" people employ, who then put MORE taxable income back into the system, are their payment back for their success. If you want this country to get better, don't penalize those who work the hardest and subsequently provide opportunities for others. That's insane.

If you can't handle 15%, it's time to change the way you live. I pay 46% of my salary and beleive me, I'm not even close to wealthy. Trade lives with me, and I promise you'll run right back to your cushy little government protected paradise.

[The-Wrongs-of-Man]

Why not charge everyone a 15% tax rate regardless of your income level?

Posted by tomanyt



Because for those living on tight budgets, 15% can break the bank -- whereas those profiting excessively, from the freedoms our great nation and Constitution provide, owe America more for their wealth and success.

There's a case to be made for no income tax at all, of course, except for those reaping the greatest monetary rewards from our system of government. If only the most profligate incomes were taxed, no one would suffer -- the richest would have to make do with less wealth, is all.

For 9 out of 10 Americans, sales taxes alone should be levied, and only for 'non-essentials' -- "luxury' and 'sin' taxes, and more expensive personal choices. Property taxes should pay for local infrastructure; corporate taxes on local businesses should pay for local government burocracies. No profitable local business, no local government. Makes sense, right?

On the other hand, those paying no taxes at all should receive no "tax returns" or other tax-time cash benefits from the Fed.

And (to stray off the subject a little) we need to do away with automatic welfare for 'single' mothers. Right now, teenage girls from destitute backgrounds have every incentive to get pregnant early on, because when they do they get their own home (!) and checks in the mail automatically. It's gotten so that such girls actually beg boys to impregnate them, so they can get out of their parents' households. (I'm not talking theory here; I see it all around me, daily.) Teenage boys father multiple offspring by multiple teenage girls grateful for the service. It's madness -- a broad-based, generational, self-perpetuating welfare scam. And, more often than not, these are not individuals particularly well-equipped to give anything back, ever, for the general good, or to break the cycle. The cycle, however, needs to be broken.

Rash as it may sound, we might do well to pass laws limiting the number of babies allowed to "families" incapable of supporting them through to highschool graduation. How to enforce such laws? Forced birth control, abortion or neutering are simply not options, obviously. But consequences, up to and including imprisonment (where, presumably, a 'repeat offender' may not procreate further), for continually siring or bearing multiple offspring with no means of support, would put a stop to this perverse breed of social insanity.

Of course, good luck passing such laws, with the Religious Right bloviating about being 'fruitful' versus 'killing babies'! If they had their way, only the well-to-do could afford abortion services; but they're not the ones dropping kids they can't support on their own.

At some point hard choices about hard realities are going to have to be made, by all of us. Not at all pleasant -- but I'd argue that we are now at or nearing that point.


(Apologies for digressing.)

[morbidcherub]

Earned Income Credit is the biggest scam of all. DOnt work, pop out kids you cant afford,collect welfare, but you will end up getting more back at tax time in a 'refund' because of EIC than someone who is intelligent enough to know they cant afford any children and who works for a living. Those on welfare should NEVER get a refund. They pay no taxes so they should get no tax 'refund'. Its not that difficult.

[xtremenortherner]

What?! 43% got outta payin'??! Geez, I only made $8900 last year with this lousy economy,and I STILL had to pay income taxes/state taxes/car taxes,etc...,are you tired of this scenario yet? Seriously now, let me ask you this, what business does the Federal Gov't have with sticking its hands into YOUR pockets "taking a 25% cut out of your weekly salary? Do you realize that Federal Tax deductions are the largest single monthly expense most middle class families have to pay,even above the mortgage, groceries, health care..., I say it every Presidential Election & I'll say it again,Vote Libertarian! Vote for Libertarian candidates in your state elections; you know that your great grandchildren probably still be paying off this budget!