Comments on: Will U.S. Taxpayers Need A Bailout?

Declan McCullagh Says Plan To Partially Nationalize U.S. Banks Has Many Potential Perils

[cfin5]

This article says,.......Some of these potential pitfalls might have been avoided if the $700 billion bailout bill that slid through Capitol Hill two weeks ago had been crafted more carefully (or not passed at all). Like the Patriot Act seven years ago, the bailout legislation was written hastily and rushed to a vote before most legislators had a chance to understand the intricacies of a complex 442-page regulatory measure..........But THOMAS JEFFERSON said,..... "There are rights which it is useless to surrender to the government and which governments have yet always been found to invade. These are the rights of thinking and publishing our thoughts by speaking or writing; the right of free commerce; the right of personal freedom. There are instruments for administering the government so peculiarly trustworthy that we should never leave the legislature at liberty to change them. The new Constitution has secured these in the executive and legislative department, but not in the judiciary. It should have established trials by the people themselves, that is to say, by jury. There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of a nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army."

[random_radar]

"Warren Buffett put it in perspective last week when he said, "No one knows who is skinny-dipping until the tide goes out." "

$700,000,000,000 worth of water can keep a lot of naked Emperors afloat!

[bailmeout1]

Leaving party out of this;
1. The government creates an ability to increase minority home ownership. They back those loans with Fannie and Freddy.
2. The government ranks banks and places a high emphasis on #1 above.
3. The government corrupts Fannie and Freddy
4. The Banks say "Bail us out"

Do I have that wrong? I know it is overly simple but this is just a thread.

[brianbwb-2009]

Part 2

In short there is no "partial nationalization, we either do it all the way, or we don''t do it. Not doing it will result in a rather painful but logical market correction, full nationalization gives us control over what happens to our money, and can soften some of the pain, but "partial" measures are the same as "halfassed" measures.

[brianbwb-2009]

The author is worried for all the wrong reasons. The real worry is the fact that by having non-voting shares, we are simply giving money with no strings attached to the same criminals whose gambling with other people''s money got us into this mess. We won''t have control over "golden parachutes", "predatory lending" policies, redlining, cooked accounting books, credit default swaps, or any of the other corruptions that destroyed these institutions.

Partial nationalization is not the answer, if a bank is in imminent danger, we should nationalize all of it, at fire sale price, replace the old crooks with new young business and finance majors, after reading them the riot act.

The economy will never return to the overvalued size of a few weeks ago, so those who say that we can sell later at a profit are deluded, since we can be sure that Paulson will suspend mark to market in almost every case.

[bailmeout1]

Warren Buffett put it in perspective last week when he said, "No one knows who is skinny-dipping until the tide goes out."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Hacker11001 at 11:59 AM : Oct 15, 2008

Bingo! Nice post.

[bailmeout1]

I don''t even understand a word of what Hacker11001 is talking about. haha I don''t know if it is even true or not. I will say that what he/she offers is far more "thought effort" than Congress put into passing this bill. More intellegence on an anonymous web thread than what Congress offers. That is sad.

[randijojo-2009]

Chastise the people who are dishonest, lie, cheat, and steal. That''s what the govt wants to do, but in a complete double standard, they themselves lie, to the american people, cheat their way to the top, and steal from the little people. "we the people" are more like "those simpletons that gave me power, made me rich, and believed the bulls*hit i fed to them" gotta love it

[bailmeout1]

I work hard, and do right by the law. I''m an honest citizen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by randijojo at 11:29 AM : Oct 15, 2008

Similar stories from all of us. This government is not set up to help us. It swings left and right and only addresses the center at election time. Our extreme left and right vote as a block - yet those in the center are the Silent Majority and vote issues. We try to discern (as you are) how to improve our lives, and the lives of others in our community. Yet we are being lied to, by both parties. Money is being stolen, by both parties. The center is not really "wanted" by either party, they do not care about us. They know we will try our best to improve our own situation, and with pride try to do that without a handout from the government. We are a non-issue for them. The way to improve your situation is to improve your clout.

[randijojo-2009]

re-enstate the gold standard, make the US dollare worth somthing again.

[randijojo-2009]

All I want to know is what can the govt. do for the working class people in rural America? I am a Paraprofessional with an Associates Degree in Education. I make less than $20,000/yr, am recently widowed, and a single mother of a toddler. I can''t afford to continue my education at this time, but I work hard, and do right by the law. I''m an honest citizen. Can I get help to pay my rent, utilities, or grocery bills? That''s a big fat resounding NO!!! But the crooks of Wall Street and CEO''s of companies like AIG hit a little bump in the road and the govt. sends over it''s peons to polish their silver spoons and buff their golden parachutes. Basically what it comes down to is that 90% of the people involved in our govt. come from money, and all they want to do is take care of other peolpe that have money. GIVE IT UP!!! Would it be such a bad thing to helo out the little people for once?

[bailmeout1]

So it works like this; San Francisco wants to saddle the rest of us with Nancy Pelosi? Fine, have your fun. We will only have to endure her for two years. We all find out too late the new level of moron that Bush has invented? Fine, a scant 4 years later he is but a memory.

[bailmeout1]

I like the idea mentioned of the new third party..US!
"The 1 Term Party", I like it. So do a lot of Missourians
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by tomar0317 at 11:09 AM : Oct 15, 2008

Just think about how possible that really is, with the internet being the communication. We have to seed it and grow it. A poster mentioned 8 years of Bush. What if it had only been 4 years?

The argument will be; What if the guy is doing a good job? Well, that''s easy. The new party vote will go to the guy promising to continue those policies. Simple. But face it, how often does that happen? Both of these guys are hitting on "change". Lets give them both a change - one they didnt expect and one they thought we would never wake up and do. BTW, this goes for State Governments also.

[msimamaji]

The people who got us into this mess need to pay for the damage out of their own pocket. I fully endorse Obama''s plan to make the rich pay. My only complaint is that we need to tax the rich more. We need to slap a hefty, permanent income tax surcharge on all incomes above $ 5,000,000. For those who claim that such a tax would destroy capitalism, I''d suggest they check out the writings of Adam Smith, the god father of capitalism. Smith felt is was patriotic to ask the wealthy to pay more. He believed the wealthy should be proud to pay taxes to the society that enabled them to prosper. He also favored programs that eliminated poverty because businesses cannot survive if people are too poor to buy anything.
It''s high time to make the rich give back the money they stole. Maybe that will instill a sense of responsibility. The rich need to learn to live like the rest of us. Cindy McCain can learn to get around in one car, not 13. Or better, she can learn to get by on public transportation, like me. She can figure out her finances on one kitchen table, just like the rest of us.

[tomar0317]

I like the idea mentioned of the new third party..US!
"The 1 Term Party", I like it. So do a lot of Missourians

[bailmeout1]

We need someone with the communication-oratory skills of Obama, the American Dream-ness of Reagan, the bravery of JFK, the small government-ness of Newt, and the adherence to the Constitution as laid out by the Founding Fathers. Someone than can galvanize the center of the American people. That is not Ron Paul.

We do it all the time. Firefighters do no ask you to fill out a form prior to putting your house on a list to be saved. Our servicemen fight our enemies side by side with no asking which party you are. Republican Privates take orders from Democratic Captains - and vice versa. Your boss is a Republican, and he hires you to do a good job even if you are a Democrat. If fact - WE DONT EVEN ASK!

Yet, Congress is unable to do that?

[lochlan-2009]

American government/corporate criminals -- $TRILLIONS.

American slave/sheeple -- IOU''S EQUALING $TRILLIONS.

AMERICA STANDS BY AND WATCHES THEIR ENTIRE COUNTRY ROBBED FROM THEM BY A CRIME RING GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!

What do you say when you witness something like that?
Cowards, shame, ignorant?


Canada, France, you''re next.

[bailmeout1]

And six years is entirely too long on these Senators. Two years tops on all of Congress, and a single four years on the President. Lets see them try to steal money in that short a time. No matter how bad the elected person is, right or left, we will only have to deal with them for a shorter time.

It is their own doing - they have distorted the process to become a guessing game. They refuse to truthfully discuss issues. Why should we have to deal with this roulette wheel for an extended period of time?

[drinuk]

Forget this election, neither of these Muppets are qualified to sort this mess out. Lets start again, NOW and put together under the leadership of Dr Ron Paul a government of National bi-partisan unity to kick ***, scrap the crooked lobby and create jobs in America for Americans. Only by producing what this country needs by Americans will our problems be sorted out. Wall Street have, by shuffling paper Failed Us, Politicians who jumped onto their gravy train have failed us. Only the American people can save us by producing and using our products and only our products, Corporate America, Big Pharma and the Elite Crooks are history, Dead Ducks !

[bailmeout1]

We have no recourse other than the vote. We can not create an army, we can not create a third party. No matter who we vote for, it is either crook-liar1 or crook-liar2. A no-vote means nothing as to the percentages.

The only thing we can do is term limits. This is ridiculous, Obama has been running for president for two years. Is he collecting his paycheck as a Senator? McCain also, frig that sell-out. They will not impose term limits on themselves so we have to impose it. No matter the party and no matter the candidate - incumbents get voted out.

There is your third party for you - a group of Americans that never ever vote for an incumbent. And if there is no incumbent, then the existing party gets voted out. I''m in.