Comments on: Arctic Sea Ice Shrinkage Grows

Permanent "Sea Ice" Shown To Have Shrunk By Half In Latest NASA Images

[frankie2fing]

When Ivan Langmuir coined your quotes, he was 76 years old and, some say, senile.

[frankie2fing]

A millenium? A 1000 years?
How do you know this?
How do you know that sometime in the last 1000 years the artic ice hadn''''t melted more than it has now?
NASA has only been monitoring it since 1979, I think that''''s only 29 years.
Who''''s been monitoring it the other 971 years for you?
Eskimos?

You are a fool as well as an idiot. You MUST be a ditto head, since you are incapable of free thinking. Gotta have some other idiot explain it to you. Have you ever heard of ice cores? These cores show that the ices has been there for more than a million years. Our environment is in peril. But with dumb@sses like you walking around, maybe the humam race should go extinct for the greater good.
Posted by HawkSprings

[louiville2]

Langmuir''s Laws of bad science

1 .The maximum effect that is observed is produced by a causative agent of barely detectable intensity, and the magnitude of the effect is substantially independent of the intensity of the cause. (e.g. CO2)

2. The effect is of a magnitude that remains close to the limit of detectability, or many measurements are necessary because of the low level of significance of the results. (0.6 C degree world wide)

3. There are claims of great accuracy. (climate models that can''t predict past KNOWN data)

4. Fantastic theories contrary to experience are suggested. ( we are seeing that now)

5. Criticisms are met by ad hoc excuses thought up on the spur of the moment. (just listen to Al Gore etc....)

6. The ratio of supporters to critics rises to somewhere near 50% and then falls gradually to zero. (supporters currently dropping/accelerating)

[barbaraf4]

"As a professor in paleo climate change, I am so embarrassed by the willfully ignorant climate change deniers. The US is the only first-world country that still has a debate about whether climate change is occurring and that it is caused by anthropogenic effects. When it comes to science literacy we have less in common with western Europe than we do with the level of science literacy of the Taliban and Saudi Arabia.

Please go to the web sites of the European, Canadian, or other developed countries and you will see that we are alone in our reality challenged perspective." Posted by NYCPROF
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well said. For some reason, the masses just don''t get this message and I find it frightening. These are the same people who believe McCain is a viable option after 8 years of Republican rule (mine isn''t a political message, just one of logic.)

[cbs_tom]

The northern cap is certainly being warmed. However, to the other cap, it is getting colder. Can anyone explain?

[downsteamjim]

Maybe the growing is shrinking!

[hawksprings]

"...ice that has been frozen for millenium disapearing. Ignorance will not stop it from happening"
Posted by lovesamerica

A millenium? A 1000 years?
How do you know this?
How do you know that sometime in the last 1000 years the artic ice hadn''t melted more than it has now?
NASA has only been monitoring it since 1979, I think that''s only 29 years.
Who''s been monitoring it the other 971 years for you?
Eskimos?

[lovesamerica]

They called it permanent ice. n the winter things freeze,yes, but they,I believe are talking about ice that has been frozen for millenium disapearing. Ignorance will not stop it from happening

[noboundary]

Confusing title to some but nevertheless clear.

What is happening is rather simple. More melting than normal = more heat added than normal. Since melting ice requires a massive amount of heat, once the ice is gone, earth won''t be able to handle the heat and temperature swings throughout the year will be higher. Just do this experiment for me. Put some ice in a glass of water and add heat while monitoring temperature. Notice that the temperature really doesn''t rise at all until the ice melts - then, even small additions of heat cause a substantial rise in temperature. The same will happen to the earth. Unfortunately, most people commenting on this forum are the victims of an educational system gone very wrong. But there is still hope if you will take the time to study and think critically!

[hawksprings]

The shrinkage grows???
Has anyone told George Costanza?

[ocasanas]

Does this mean that it will get harder and harder to get a whiskey on the rocks?

[nycprof]

As a professor in paleo climate change, I am so embarrassed by the willfully ignorant climate change deniers. The US is the only first-world country that still has a debate about whether climate change is occurring and that it is caused by anthropogenic effects. When it comes to science literacy we have less in common with western Europe than we do with the level of science literacy of the Taliban and Saudi Arabia.

Please go to the web sites of the European, Canadian, or other developed countries and you will see that we are alone in our reality challenged perspective.

[mydogdylan6]

Well all the data gathered via geology, carbon dating, and other methods that goes farther than 10,000 years ago is a complete myth.

Sarah Palin says the earth is only 10,000 years old and she is by far the smartest woman in America!

[guadalcanal3]

Maybe the birds will get bigger and be called dinosaurs again.

[fossilgeek]

Funny. Last week you sought to terrorize us with the news that an ice shelf the size of Manhattan had broken loose. Now we learn that the amount additional ice over last year is over 4,400 times that amount - and now you want to scare us with that?

As for last year''s junk science theory - shutting down the thermohaline circulation - I suggest those who fear this get up to date with the science - even the kooks don''t subscribe to that "theory" any more. You''re better of to join the kooks who believe in the "methane burp" theory ... at least that hasn''t been totally debunked yet.

If you want to really freak out, worry about when (not if, but when) we return to Earth''s normal, colder climate (such as during the "Little Ice Age" and prior to the Middle Ages). If you think it is more difficult to grow some crops in a warmer climate, try growing them in a colder and shorter growing season. Ample Geological evidence points to the inevitability of this - it''s only a matter of when and how much.

[seafang]

"I worry more about the melting ice on Greenland running into the north Atlantic and shutting down the thermohaline circulation. If that happens there won''''t be a debate about IF humans are responsible for the current warming trend, because we will be fighting for our lives.
Posted by cevn at 12:26 PM : Sep 17, 2008 "

No need to worry old chap; first of all there isn''t any "current warming trend" (your words) and there hasn''t been any for the last ten years and maybe 13 years. We are actually in a cooling trend,a nd have been since 1995; yet CO2 continues to go up and none of the computer modelling warming and sea rise has come to pass.

And forget that thermohaline nonsense; so long as the earth keeps rotating in the same direction, the gulf stream will continue to flow; it couldn''t stop if it wanted to.

As for that methane silliness; according to the official NASA/NOAA earth energy budget which you can easily find for yourselves online, the earth emits about 390 Watts per square meter of long wavelength infrared, and out of that 390 only 40 W.m^2 is able to escape directly and the rest is trapped in the atmosphere by GHGs including water; the ultimate GHG.
So even if Methane was 1000 times as absorbing as CO2 (it isn''t) there''s only another 10% of the IR to stop.

And methane is a very desirable and renewable fuel (plants make it constantly) so instead of worrying about that stuff at the ocean bottom we should be tapping into it and using it for natural gas fuel.

[seafang]

What a crock; sea ice shrinkage grows. In 2007 it was 39% less than normal and in 2008 it is 33% less than normal. That means sea ice shrinkage shrinks to me. What idiots.
And that ain''t the half of it; they are talking about the shrinkage that took place this winter:
" "According to NASA-processed satellite microwave data, this perennial ice used to cover 50 to 60 percent of the Arctic, but this winter it covered less than 30 percent," NASA said in a statement. "

That''s a direct quote from NASA. Wasn''t this winter way back in february .

Actually, there was 500,000 square miles more sea ice this summer, than in 2007, and it is thicker too. Their silly satellite has been reading impassable sea ice as open water. My Norwegian Nobel prize winning glaciologist in Greenland says there is more than enough ice for everybody, and a lot more than last year; despite the fact that the shrinkage is growing or shrinking according to your understanding of English

[redbds]

"Arctic Sea Ice Shrinkage Grows"

More proof that a bunch ao liberal idiots are running CBS!

[justspiffy]

One thing that hasn''t been mentioned is as the melting continues it dilutes the Gulf Stream as that
continues it will cause a new Ice Age.

[smurfcrusher]

"Your right about the methane hydrates. Does anyone know how much the temp must rise for the clathrates to melt? Also, how long does it take for the temperature at these depths to change in proportion to atmospheric increases? I''''m done arguing with neocons about scientific topics. Palin thinks the earth is 7000 years old and that scares the BeJebus out of me! "

Posted by cevn

clathrates are very unstable; but there is already evidence of large-scale dissociation off the coast of Norway (giant submarine holes in the sea bed).

Dramatic footage of dissociation events off California have been filmed and are probably available online... a foaming, bubbling patch of sea where the methane is escaping.

I can''t provide rates per degree change in temperature... but I do know that estimates of carbon in permafrost have recently doubled, and this is a mix of organic carbon (subject to bacterial decomposition, releasing CO2) and methane hydrates.

The thought of dinosaurs and humans coexisting is simply too ridiculous to comment on. You can probably guess how I will be voting...