Comments on: Clinton's Experience Is Debated

Washington Post: While Not A Foreign Crisis Player, She Carried U.S. Message

Yeah, I''''m sure Lord Trimble is the sort who is loath to admit anyone made a significant contribution but HIM. I wonder what he says about John Hume ?

Posted by libra127
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Ok, we could go back and forth about this all nite long - he said this, they said that, this speaker is valid, that speaker isn''t, and on and on and on.

However, "Intellectual Honesty" As I understand it, means that one''s convictions are proportianal to the available evidence at hand.
For myself, Hillary has not demonstrated intellectual honesty. She has "imbellished" her foriegn policy credentials and experience far, far beyond what the record and evidence indicates. Which leaves her with a big credibility problem.

Worse than a lack of probity with me (I''ve been listening to lying politicians all my life), is the problem of being somewhat less than honest with herself.

In the famous words of Dirty Harry, "A man''s got to know his limitations". She fails to acknowledge her own limitations, even to herself (I suspect), for whatever reasons. This, by the way, puts her on the same stage as Dubya (along with playing the fear card in Texas).

Incidentally - a little digression - I''m also a Libra (couldn''t help but notice your signon).

[libra127]

Statement by John Hume, one of the most important figures in the modern political history of N. Ireland, head of the Social Democrats and Labour Party, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, the Gandhi Peace Prize and the Martin Luther King Award:

"I am quite surprised that anyone would suggest that Hillary Clinton did not perform important foreign policy work as First Lady. I can state from firsthand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland.

"She visited Northern Ireland, met with very many people and gave very decisive support to the peace process. There is no doubt that the people of Northern Ireland think very positively of Hillary Clinton''s support for our peace process, due to her visits to N. Ireland and her meetings with so many people. In private, she made countless calls and contacts, speaking to leaders and opinion makers on all sides, urging them to keep moving forward."


Yeah, I''m sure Lord Trimble is the sort who is loath to admit anyone made a significant contribution but HIM. I wonder what he says about John Hume ?

Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province.

"I don''t know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill [Clinton] going around," he said. Her recent statements about being deeply involved were merely "the sort of thing people put in their canvassing leaflets" during elections. "She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don''t want to rain on the thing for her but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player."

[libra127]

You an expert on sexism, are you?

Posted by hadenough43 at 06:17 PM : Mar 21, 2008

When it''s this blatant, it doesn''t take an expert. Anyone with half a brain can see it.

[libra127]

(contd) - "Morris and McGann mention a few of the people Senator Clinton met on her visits to Ireland and scoff at the importance of those meetings."
They "do not carry a single quote from any leader in Ireland on Senator Clinton''s contribution to the solution of the Irish conflict. Nor do they carry a quote from Senator Mitchell. I challenge them to find one political leader, of any significance in Ireland, who does not agree that Senator Clinton''s involvement with the women of Northern Ireland, and her advocacy for children damaged by the conflict, played a crucial role in bringing about the Good Friday Agreement". (reference: The Irish Echo online, March 5-11, 2008).

Part 5

[libra127]

HRC visited N. Ireland 6 times between 1995 and 2000, twice on her own. "A precise accounting of Clinton''s visits to Ireland and her work for Irish peace forms the basis for a book being published later this year by Stella O''Leary, president of the Irish American Democrats lobby group."

She says: "It will come as a huge surprise to the Irish, North and South, to hear D_ick Morris and Eileen McGann''s claims that Senator Hillary Clinton played no role in the Irish peace process. Starting with the Christmas visit to Belfast in 1995, Hillary Clinton recognized that the participation of women was critical in bringing about an end to the conflict, and she set about inspiring women to become politically involved. The meeting with Mrs. McCartan was a prelude to Senator Clinton opening a larger dialogue with women leaders on both sides of the border. At her prompting, the White House arranged for a delegation of American women leaders to meet in Belfast with their Irish counterparts and the outcome of the meeting was the Vital Voices Conference in 1998. As a result of that conference, Northern Ireland women became much more involved in running for elective office and when the time came, the Women''s Party were full participants with George Mitchell in the peace negotiations."

Part 4

[libra127]

More from Inez McCormack:

"Hillary Clinton took risks for peace in asking me and others to bring women and communities from both traditions to affirm their capacity to work for common purpose. She used her immense influence to give women like me space to develop this work and validated it every step of the way. Thie approach is now taken for granted but it wasn''''t then. She told us that if we take risks for peace, she would stay with us on that journey. In my experience, it took hard work, attention to detail and commitment of time and energy which she delivered steadily and where needed over the last decade."

Similar testimonies have been forthcoming from other women, Protestant and Catholic: prominent community worker Elaine Crozier; Baroness May Blood, a member of the British House of Lords; Geraldine McAteer, chief executive of the West Belfast Partnership Board; Avila Kilmurray, head of theCommunity Foundation for Northern Ireland; Patricia Lewsley, former member of the N. Ireland Assembly and currently Commissioner for Children and Young People, and Joanna McVey, former CEO of the Fermanagh Trust.

Part 3

[libra127]

More from John Hume on HRC''s role in the Irish peace process:

"Anyone criticizing her foreign policy involvement should look at her very active and positive approach to Northern Ireland and speak with the people of Northern Ireland who have the highest regard for her and are very grateful for her very active support for our peace process."

From Inez McCormack, Irish labor and fair emplyment advocate: "We believe it is important for others to know the pivotal role Mrs. Clinton played in helping us in Northern Ireland at critical junctures in the peace process. She supported us over many years and we will always be grateful to her."

Part 2

[libra127]

More from John Hume on HRC''s role in the Irish peace process:

"Anyone criticizing her foreign policy involvement should look at her very active and positive approach to Northern Ireland and speak with the people of Northern Ireland who have the highest regard for her and are very grateful for her very active support for our peace process."

From Inez McCormack, Irish labor and fair emplyment advocate: "We believe it is important for others to know the pivotal role Mrs. Clinton played in helping us in Northern Ireland at critical junctures in the peace process. She supported us over many years and we will always be grateful to her."

Part 2

[libra127]

For hadenough43:

Statement by John Hume, one of the most important figures in the modern political history of N. Ireland, head of the Social Democrats and Labour Party, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, the Gandhi Peace Prize and the Martin Luther King Award:

"I am quite surprised that anyone would suggest that Hillary Clinton did not perform important foreign policy work as First Lady. I can state from firsthand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland.

"She visited Northern Ireland, met with very many people and gave very decisive support to the peace process. There is no doubt that the people of Northern Ireland think very positively of Hillary Clinton''''s support for our peace process, due to her visits to N. Ireland and her meetings with so many people. In private, she made countless calls and contacts, speaking to leaders and opinion makers on all sides, urging them to keep moving forward."

Part 1