Comments on: GOP Robo-Calls Hitting Ayres Issue

[karlosaka]

If your father, friend, or acquaintance committed a crime or was involved in a despicable activity should you be held accountable? Why should we not hold all the members of the Republican Party accountable for the mess created by the Bush Administration? Why should not also hold ourselves as well as elected government officials responsible for associations and dealing with oil producing countries whose citizens though very few have been involved in terrorist acts, or have friends or family members who have been involved in terrorists activities? We should question our own character and judgment for electing leaders who do business with and borrowing money from countries with long history of human right violations. When did our politicians become judges? Should we condemn people for the crimes committed by others? Where is Justice?
This game of guilt by association must be relevant to the event of guilt. It is ridiculous and baseless association of Obama with Ayers and the activities that occurred when he was child. This calls to question the character and judgment of those proposing or using Ayers. It is shameful and should be condemned and not condoned else the innocent will suffer for the crimes committed by others. The attempts to use Ayers show desperation, intellectually and politically dishonest practice. We must stop them now.

[karlosaka]

Here Are Some Very Serious Questions That Need Honest and Serious Answers.
Is the ideology of one party the answer to all our problems? Could unity of the positive aspects in each ideology be the solution? What are the underlying principles of Parties?
How can we depend on these politicians to solve the important problems facing mankind, if they are influenced by lobbyists? When shall we stop making the same past mistakes?
Do you believe that calling a party liberal or conservative is solves our problems? What mean and who do they represent? When simple concepts are misunderstood and wrongly applied, how do you expect people to understand complex issues? Is experience what we value most? But what kind of experience do we think is relevant to the times we live in today? Can any one boast of having experience in every thing in life? How can we compare the experiences of two groups from different eras? Do you think that experience is the only important factor without considering the ability to deal with issues at hand? If we think that experience is so important why have those who have been in politics for the longest time not been elected as Presidents? Why did Bush and Clinton to name a few become Presidents while those who have been out there longer not? How can we elect someone and then lay blames? What about our own lack of judgment in electing the right person into office? If they went wrong then it is our fault in first case. We allowed them. What do you say?

[Brizerz]

"aserghuil, thanks for the insight into your worldview. I''''m always interested in how those from your persuasion justify their positions. Usually when I ask I just get defensive responses. Yours were well put. I''''d love to chat more but I''''ve got to go. Take care. "

Not a problem.

On that note, I''ll leave it to a simple matter of agreeing to disagree. You have your mindset and I have my own.

Let''s just refrain from predatory accusations; all will then be well.

Good night.

[sommertime6]

aserghuil, thanks for the insight into your worldview. I''m always interested in how those from your persuasion justify their positions. Usually when I ask I just get defensive responses. Yours were well put. I''d love to chat more but I''ve got to go. Take care.

[Brizerz]

"aserghuil, I respect your position on abortion. Well put. Has it been determined when, during the pregnancy, that the brain and heart actually begin to engage?"

The exact time varies, though it is generally thought to be within the second trimester. This is why most who share my mindset feel that a first trimester abortion is considered ethically sound, as the embryo is not at all able to begin brain and heart function.

[sommertime6]

aserghuil, I respect your position on abortion. Well put. Has it been determined when, during the pregnancy, that the brain and heart actually begin to engage?

[sommertime6]

aserghuil, I''ve seen both sides of the aisle use the terms regulation and de-regulation. Both are trying to use it to their advantage. Generally speaking, Republicans are against regulation by the government over the private sector. However, I believe it was the Democrats that deregulated oversight of companies like Fannie and Freddie in order to allow low income families to afford housing. I agree that the intent was noble but the lenders became predatory and greedy and now we are in trouble economically because of it. Republicans are not in the clear either. They went right along with it and didn''t do anything to stop it. Now I''ve heard McCain say that he wanted to deregulate the legislatino that the Dems put together that forced lenders to give risky loans . . . yeah, I''m confused too. Either way, McCain saw problems in the accounting practices of Fannie years ago and no one bothered to check out the red flag. Wether you call regulating or deregulating, removing directives for lenders so that they can properly underwrite against high risk loans sounds like the right move to me.

[Brizerz]

"aserghuil, our priorities are just worlds apart. We each have an entirely different worldview. Abortion in my mind is not a trivial issue. From my perspective we are talking about babies being killed for convenience sake. I know that sounds extreme but, thats why the pro-life movement continues to hang around. Its tough to stomach for those of us on this side of the issue."

My view, and indeed the view of many modern men of science, is that abortion is fine prior to the moment the brain of the fetus and the heart of the fetus begin to function. Upon those moments, the fetus is a separate entity. Before those moments, it is yet another limb able to be removed. It can be argued that, should God exist, the moment when the brain and heart first activate is when the soul enters the fetal body. That is the basis for my view on abortion, and why I feel Sarah Palin''s desire to impose harsh anti-abortion measures on victims of rape/incest who are still in trimester 1 is so flawed.

[Brizerz]

"We must also be careful not to go to the other extreme and become anti-patriotic."

No one in this election is currently feeling anti-patriotic. I stand for my ideals because I feel they''re the best for this nation. Likewise, Ayers was a part of a movement out of a sense of patriotism. I''m not justifying his actions; I''m simply saying it was likely his motive.

I was a supporter of Ron Paul''s policies before McCain dominated the Republican primaries. Upon my realization that Ron Paul truly had no chance, I spent a week researching speeches, voting records, associations, past activities... anything I could think of for Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John McCain. Out of all three, Barack Obama was the one who seemed, based on my research, to be the most beneficial to this nation as a whole. Had Ron Paul been selected as the GOP candidate, my vote would have gone to the GOP. Unfortunately, members of the GOP opted for the then-moderate McCain, who quickly turned neoconservative for the sake of his own party.

The GOP itself is corrupt and should be rebooted with true conservative ideals. It is no longer the Grand Old Party, just the corrupt party of old.

[sommertime6]

aserghuil, our priorities are just worlds apart. We each have an entirely different worldview. Abortion in my mind is not a trivial issue. From my perspective we are talking about babies being killed for convenience sake. I know that sounds extreme but, thats why the pro-life movement continues to hang around. Its tough to stomach for those of us on this side of the issue.

[sommertime6]

I suggest you do some research and figure out how patriotism has been used effectively to do ugly things in history. Posted by jone775 at 12:26 AM : Oct 17, 2008

I agree that patriotism can be abused as aserghuil described. We must also be careful not to go to the other extreme and become anti-patriotic. Both can be dangerous

[Brizerz]

"A lot of time has past since then and he has demonstrated he learned his lesson. "

McCain only recently switched his position from being in favor of deregulation to being a staunch opponent, and that was when he saw that Obama''s position was the more fiscally sound approach just two weeks ago.

McCain never learned. His judgment automatically got called into question when he chose the junior governor, Sarah Palin, whose husband was part of an Alaskan secession movement and who herself had ties to corrupt politician Ted Stevens. One heartbeat away from the presidency, everyone around the world and a large majority of those within this country realize that Palin would be the worst thing to happen to this nation in its entire history. Her desire to impose her own views upon countless other citizens of this great nation with trivial matters such as abortion leave members of the international community wondering how anyone could have made the foolish mistake made by McCain in choosing Palin as her running mate.

McCain has justified himself as being willing to stoop to new campaign lows as well as making poor decisions overall in an attempt to appeal to people for victory and victory alone. His campaign is full of shame, and yet he feels none of it.

I feel sorry that you''ve been convinced so steadfastly to vote for him. I wish I could change your mind, but it seems you''re locked in this reckless mindset. Godspeed.

[babyboomer03]

The implication of that phone message -- especially if delivered rapidly by the caller -- is that Obama "worked closely" with Ayers when Ayers "bombed the US Capitol, the Pentagon, a judge''s home and killed Americans." Although the exact language is "Barack Obama has worked closely with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, whose organization bombed the U.S. capitol, the Pentagon, a judge''s home and killed Americans," the "whose organization" portion can easily be missed. This is EXTREMELY (and I am sure intentionally) misleading. It is every bit as disgusting as the robo-calls that Bush used against McCain in 2000, implying that McCain fathered an illegitimate black child. For shame!

[sommertime6]

Posted by Truthmatterz at 12:26 AM : Oct 17, 2008

You comments intrigue me . . . I generally vote republican and many on the republican side say the same about the democratic party. Its seems we both are so eager to believe the worst in each other. I wish there was an easy way to stop it . . .

[Brizerz]

jone775 has a point. Patriotism has been used in the name of promoting heinous parties to power. Case in point: the Reichstag bombing led was blamed on communists by the Nazi party, thus effectively sealing the ascension of the Nazis.

Patriotism has been used by groups as justification to commit wicked acts, though those who commit said acts always committed said actions for the purpose of self-promotion. The Bush leadership did this with Iraq and locked us in a never-ending war. McCain has inept advisers of the same breed; sommertime6, the neoconservative leaders will lead you and others willing to believe this nonsense into oblivion, taking the rest of us down as well.

Please, don''t make the same mistakes you guys made in 2000 and 2004. Our reputation as a people and as a nation were severely damaged due to the ineptitude of the current administration and those alike.

[sommertime6]

Posted by aserghuil at 11:59 PM : Oct 16, 2008

As intelligent as you are trying to be, you have know idea who I am or what I believe. You do not know my mentality. Your elitist comments against others who disagree with you I suppose then would be indicative of your mentality? I''m willing to listen. I''m willing to research your claims. I don''t make sweeping remarks that discount everything everyone else says. For someone being so sensitive about political correctness, you don''t seem to be practicing it.

Americans have the right to believe what they want, to practice the faith that they want. I understand that pastors across the nation may share Rev Wrights views. Thats fine. But if you feel that way about the country why should you be trusted to lead it? Recklessly clipped sound bites? I don''t care what the context was. You can''t defend it. Obama couldn''t. He ended up leaving that fellowship because he recognized that it was a problem.

In over 20 years serving our Country the only blemish on McCains record you can sight is from the 80''s, an incident that he was eventually exonerated from but was chastized for his poor judgement. A lot of time has past since then and he has demonstrated he learned his lesson. He''s been policing pork and special interests and campaign finance ever since. Obama''s career has been much shorter and already the controversial figures in his life outnumber McCain''s. Another 5 - 10 years for Obama and he could prove the same.

[jone775]

sommertime6: you are being fooled. I suggest you do some research and figure out how patriotism has been used effectively to do ugly things in history. I fear this is happening in the U.S. right now, and it''s being done by the rethuglican party. Stop the hatred and intolerance...vote Democrat, vote Obama/Biden.

[dnsallday]

I just don''t understand why the Republican party is always against Americans.
It really seems that the intentions of their actions, is always to tear us apart.

[Brizerz]

"The author of the article obviously feels"

I''m sorry. I stopped reading right there; FactCheck.org articles are published after peer review by people who have proven themselves as unbiased analyzers of political discussion. Your comment is automatically null and void; FactCheck.org has always used facts to establish credibility, and has done so in the article you mentioned.

Nice try, but your tactic was also employed by the McCain campaign directly. Why choose a new attack line when you can try to discredit an impeccable organization?

Step off your throne.

[sommertime6]

I checked out factcheck.org on the Obama/Ayers relationshiop. The author of the article obviously feels that using Ayers as an attack is way out of line and accuses the McCain camp of lying regarding those accusations. I agree there is some stretching of the truth as has been typical of both campaigns but the article really toned down Ayer''s past behavior as well. I almost bought into the integrity behind the article until the author started questioning wether or not Ayers was actually a terrorist! What? Well, he didn''t really mean to hurt anyone . . . You''ve got to be kidding me. All integrity for factcheck.org in my mind is dangerously close to being lost based these opinions expressed by the author. The guy bombed several federal buildings. Lives were at stake. There should be no question who Ayer''s is and there should be questions about persons running for public office who count him as their friend; not necessarily close friends, but according to the Obama campaign, friendly. Its up to the American people to research it and decide how they feel about it. But you can''t deny that there are some facts mingled in with all the political truth stretching.