Comments on: If Obama's A Celebrity, What's McCain?

Politico: As McCamp Camp Tries To Brand Obama A "Celebrity Politician," It's Worth Considering McCain's Own Media Status

[erichsh]

Nobody is mocking or making fun of mccain''''s service to our Country. Indeed we all should respect that.

Posted by armydog2

Oh yes they are, armydog2 - repeatedly! And if they''re not making fun of his service, they''re making fun of his age, or the very fact he was shot down in the first place. Take issue with his politics all you want, but to substitute issues-oriented debate with baseless, low-balled, slimy personal denigration and juvenile name-calling is just disgraceful.

And as far as jon2012''s non-response, I''m specifically calling out zoe2006''s outrageous allegation that McCain actually sided with the VietCong. Both you and zoe are evading that one, and you''re just making some generic crack about global warming or whatever.

[jon2012-2009]

How important is this celebrity thing? Let''s focus on the big picture: We have a Republican president in George Bush whose record of eight years in office is hailed as a proud achievement of conservatism but for the country it''s been a time of unmitigated misery, disaster and incompetence. McCain, as the Republican candidate, wants another shot. Should a Republican take the White House again?

[missingamerica]

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I''m sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison."

Posted by liberalme at 11:26 AM : Aug 04, 2008

Ummmm...not to mention, since the grunts in the field had far less propaganda value than an officer and an aviator like McCain, the NVA and VC often simply shot or bayoneted/stabbed them out of hand when they were captured - assuming the NVA/VC were too time-constrained to torture them first.

To quote Rep. Charles Rangel from testimony at http://www.aavw.org/served/pows_cominghome_abstract01.html:

"Where are the ground troops, the enlisted men, who were captured by the enemy during more than 8 years of involvement by American ground forces in Vietnam?"

Regardless, I think you messed up, "liberalme".

In response to such facts, you have left the Republican chickenhawks and their 527 committees no choice but to start a "Swift Boat"-style attack that attempts to convince the American people that there were no infantry or marines in combat in Vietnam.

[jon2012-2009]

Posted by zoe2006 What an outrageous post, zoe. Try to back up one word of your baseless, hate-filled rant.
Posted by erichsh at 11:28 AM : Aug 04, 2008

If I didn''t know erichsh, I''d think here''s a Democrat livid at a Republican''s vicious lies and calling the lies. But a Republican demanding substantiation of wild, disparaging statements! A new world.

Where was any of these Republicans during Swiftboats? The 935 Bush lies about Iraq, in the two years before invasion? The tax cuts for the ''middle class?'' That global warming is a hoax upon the American people?

[mrtutto]

I hope that this waste less spending of money that John McCain is engaging in doesn''t show how irresponsible he is at managing things.

[armydog2]

Nobody is mocking or making fun of mccain''s service to our Country. Indeed we all should respect that. Being a POW for 5 years does not qualify anyone to be president. Consider what the man went through under the best circumstances in a POW camp. Trauma, terror,torture and plain old fear have certainly left scars on him both physically and mentally. These scars never go away, that is what terrifies me should mccain become president. It doesn''t take much to trigger a flash back or whatever in men who have gone through what he did.

[vanesa4]

What is McCain? A war hero of the PAST!!!! We have not heard much more from him than his twisted attacks on Obama, his war-mongering approach to foreign issues and his offensive "humor". If he wants to define himself on the real issues, he is running out of time to do it. During this campaign we have run out of patience with his lack of judgement and his disrespect for people and for the voters who consider voting a serious duty.

[erichsh]

Obviously, McCain lacks humor. McCain is not a good pilot if he got shot down and lost a multimillion dollar plan to the enemy. McCain was too lazy and not smart enough to escape from the POW camp, because McCain was treated better then the other POWs, siding with the Viet Cong all the time.

Posted by zoe2006 What an outrageous post, zoe. Try to back up one word of your baseless, hate-filled rant. McCain not only was not treated any better than other POW''s, he remained a POW for five years because he refused to accept earlier release while others remained in captivity. That''s proven history. And let''s see how good your sense of humor you would have if you were a POW yourself. Pathetic.

[liberalme]

For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I''m sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."

For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.

[missingamerica]

With his extensive photo opts, it certainly appears that Obama considers himself a celebrity. He is always pandering to the press and the press to him..

Posted by stlouisman3 at 11:11 AM : Aug 04, 2008

And yet you have stories such as "Deep Secrecy in The Obama Campaign" (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/03/politics/washingtonpost/main4317674.shtml?source=mostpop_story)

Curious...having your cake and eating it too seems no longer to be an impossibility...

[liberalme]

McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating after Keating gave McCain at least $112,00 in contributions. In the mid-1980s, McCain made at least nine trips on Keating''s airplanes, and three of those were to Keating''s luxurious retreat in the Bahamas. McCain''s wife and father-in-law also were the largest investors (at $350,000) in a Keating shopping center; the Phoenix New Times called it a "sweetheart deal."

[liberalme]

Now how about a similar review of McCain''''s 20+ years in office and his military service?

Obama''''s experience is laughable compared to McCain''''s,

Posted by erichsh at 10:35 AM : Aug

A bit of McCains "jokes" over the past several years:

Citizens for Life, a New Hampshire group, complained in ads that McCain once referred to the Leisure World senior citizens home as ''''Seizure World.''''

McCain, reveling in adoration at a June 1998 Republican fund-raiser and sure his joke would go no further, said: "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father."

The nice thing about Alzheimer''s is you get to hide your own Easter eggs," John McCain said to reporters while sitting in his campaign bus.

What a funny guy!

[cheteunice]

With his extensive photo opts, it certainly appears that Obama considers himself a celebrity. He is always pandering to the press and the press to him..

[missingamerica]

"If Obama''s A Celebrity, What''s McCain?"

Well, duh - is that not obvious?

McCain is a puppet of the oil industry.

[erichsh]

Go ahead and mock a decorated war veteran, mswolfestock and the rest of your ilk. Unlike Kerry, not one credible voice has ever stepped up to dispute any aspect of McCain''s undeniably heroic military record. Keep coming up with your juvenile nicknames. While you''re at it, make fun of the injuries he suffered while being a POW for five years.

In the meantime, McCain has closed the gap with Obama in most nationwide polls. The reprehensible mockery that Obama supporters like yours engage are so repulsive that you''ll succeed in swinging more independent voters McCain''s way.

[credibility2]

Show time and theatrics are the pablum for those who are empty and offer neither qualifications or experience. All of which is meant to dazzle rather than instigate intellectual assessment, the thought process, scrutiny and questioning.

[imprisonkarl]

rafterman --

A vet who served with Johnny War "Hero" remembers events differently than you -- he says McCain DID disregard orders to unload some of his ordinance.

That vet further states that the resulting investigation was a total joke -- no way Navy brass was gonna hang an admiral''s son out to dry, and McSame even went bar-hopping in Saigon with reporters sent to cover the story (timearchives Oct. 2006).

Too bad the Rethuglicans chose another phoney patriot a la flyboy Bush & the Chanpagne Squadron.

BTW, anyone seen McSame''s little ho, Vicki Iseman, lately? Sure would like to hear her version of the affair she had with him.

[taotxzen]

The McCain Strategy Is Vintage Karl Rove, the Media Loves It

Paul AbramsSun Aug 3, 9:43 PM ET

There is a plausible argument that no one has so negatively impacted the lives of the American people and the world as has Karl Rove. Not only did he elect an incompetent, not only did he misuse the White House to further his goal of a permanent Republican majority, but he has destroyed the American political dialogue.

The mainstream media, interested only in ratings, has lapped it up. What simpler and inexpensive way to cover a contest whose outcome has profound stakes for the entire world than to treat the nonsense as important. Fox "News," interested only in electing Republicans, has presented it as, to quote Rove himself about the outing of Valerie Plame, "fair game."

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

The Obama Camp seems not to grasp fully what is going on. Responding in logical, measured terms that rationally pushes back on McCain''s ads, they are missing the emotional side of the attacks that is the determining factor in 98% of decisionmaking, and, thus, voting.

Using mockery McCain is trying to undermine, at the level of emotions, Obama''s charisma and the passions his candidacy stirs both in the US and around the world. Obama ought to begin by reminding people, "these are the same people, using the same tactics, that brought us George W Bush, and look what a disaster he is."

In the Democratic primaries Obama used one very successful strategy of calling out the tactic, thus bringing it to peoples'' consciousness, rather than leaving it buried in the emotional side of the brain. Hillary''s "the sky is going to open" attempted mockery did not take hold, and she did not pursue it, in part because much of the primary electorate would not have tolerated it.

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

But, the McCain people do not care about much of the Democratic primary electorate. They want to undermine Obama, so their guy does not appear to be as lame as he actually is. Early in his career Rove and his people promoted death in the form of cigarettes. Then it was Bush. Now, it''s McCain. They do not stop on their own, you have to stop them by making the price they pay too painful to continue.

Remember the Rove tactic: find your opponent''s strength, and attack it. The Rove protigis running the McCain campaign (doubtless with help from Karl Rove) have analyzed Obama''s major strength to be his ability to create a movement with passion. Not only can such passion become infectious, it also has the ability to change politics post-election by going over the heads of lobbyists and the DC-insiders to apply enormous people pressure on Members of Congress. The first Earth Day was a good example: 20 million people participated, 7 of the first ''dirty-dozen'' pro-polluters were then defeated, and then the new Congress passed, and Richard Nixon (!) signed, the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, the Endangered Species Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act and the Environmental Protection Act, just to name-drop a few.

(cont)