Comments on: Iraq's Gunmen Morphing Into Men In Suits

Allen Pizzey: Shiite Militias Are Setting Up Social Networks, Following Hezbollah's Example

[downtowner97]

I should say that I am very happy fewer Americans are dying at the moment. Anyone would be. I can''t, however, say I was more excited about the war in February 2004 when only 20 US troops died than I was in November 2004 when 137 US troops died. It has been the same pointless war since the first day.

[downtowner97]

I''ll answer your question. You say the only explanation for the lower number of US troop deaths is that Iraqis are tired of those who want to harm us, and have decided to take our side and accept us as liberators. That fits well with the party line and the preachings of Rush, Hannity, Bill and our president and vice president, but there were also drastic declines in troop deaths at other times since the invasion followed by large increases in US troop deaths.

There is no indication from any general who was in Iraq at any time since the invasion except for Patraeus who thinks we are winning over the Iraqi people. The Mahdi Army is seen as being a bunch of heroes for providing basic services to the Iraqi people, in spite of the fact those same people are arrested daily by US troops. The Kurds, who we have no control over, are attacking Turkey, our ally right now. There are at any given time, parts of Iraq US soldiers avoid completely.

You won''t be happy until we concede that you''re right that we''ve pacified Iraq and won over the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, and the facts just don''t support it. The number of US troop deaths is just one statistic coming out of a very complex quagmire.

[speakinup]

actornaught - you are correct, mar 06 is one person less according to my chart.

So, do you deny that there seems to be a drastic decline in the number of US deaths ?

What do you attribute that to ? Good luck. The troops getting better a dodging bullets. Just maybe our new plan is working ? (note descrete question at the end would be the one I''d like answered, for those of you unable to handle two questions, (alphaa10.)

[speakinup]

"As for "dodging", I must hear a single, discrete question before I can dodge the question. alphaa10

So alphaa10 - below is the complete text in which I posed my question. I see one descrete question, followed by a question mark. The other sentences don''t have question marks. They are called retorical questions.

"alphaa10 - one question - since we are doing so badly there - why is the US death rate the lowest it has been in 3 and a half years ?

"Is it because the locals have had enough indescriminent killing by the Al Qaeda, and are now turning to our side. That they love democracy and voting for their leader as was shown in their elections.

"You are all wet, liberal - go back to the drawing boards for your propaganda message - this one don''''t cut it. Posted by speakinup.

actornaught check out this web site: http://icasualties.org/oif/ 3rd chart down left side entitled "U.S. Deaths By Month/Year:"

[downtowner97]

Yes, Bush and Cheney both changed a great deal, and the majority of the people in their party inexplicably changed with them. Bush himself says we have enemies all over the world, but he''s committed our entire military as well as money we don''t have to fighting one enemy. That enemy is laying in a grave with a broken neck, yet we still fight as if our existence depends on it. It''s hard to understand.

[alphaa10-2009]

downtowner97 said, "Cheney the prophet: I think that the proposition of going to Baghdad is also fallacious..."
---
Cheney sounds rational here-- which argues for his current, failing grasp of reality. Paranoia is not a term to use lightly. Many who knew Cheney then and now are quite worried about the transformation.

The paradox is this-- based on his experience with GOP presidents and their foreign policies, Cheney might have told Bush not even to think about invasion. "Saddam may have tried to kill your father with a missile at the Rome airport, and we have fought a war with him since then, but we have to realize he is our best hope at keeping the Iranians in Iran. Even your father understood he needed to send Saddam little gifts like nerve gas for his amusement to keep him in our camp."

Yet, it was Cheney, by most accounts who pushed Bush for an invasion. Bush was the boy king who needed an avuncular hand on his shoulder, and became easy prey for Cheney and his neocon circles.

Thus, Dr. Strangelove applies. it was Cheney who underwent some very destructive weirdness, for which this country only has begun to pay.

[alphaa10-2009]

speakinup said, "I noticed you dodged the question. ''''no'''' is not an answer to the question I posed..."
---
Your question was "Do I believe...? You took a rambling series of propositions and tried to make it into a single question. Which proposition did you want me to address? Mine was the only answer your comments permitted.

As for "dodging", I must hear a single, discrete question before I can dodge the question.

Your analogy that Maliki may be weak but "freedom loving" Iraqis could be behind him, nonetheless, is certainly possible. However, polls of Iraqis do not find a groundswell of support for him. Maliki quarrels with even his Shia base, for example, and they reward him with mutual contempt, as they did his predecessor.

You tried an analogy to show Bush can be a weak president and still have "freedom loving" citizens behind him", which is certainly possible. However, popular support is not probable, based on opinion polls about Bush and Iraq. Liberals, for example, consider themselves especially freedom loving, but they also consider Bush worse than weak. Thus, it is far more likely freedom loving citizens are not behind Bush, at least in this country. And this is where your analogy falls apart.

So, I apologize for supposing you were a "Bushbot". Clearly, you aspire to more.

[downtowner97]

Iraq is said to have one hundred billion barrels of oil reserves. Iraq''s oil reserves are second only to those of Saudi Arabia. One hundred billion times $92 (The current cost of a barrel of oil)is roughly $1 trillion. We were told that oil would pay for the war, but so far, it has been current and future US taxpayers who have paid for/will pay for the war. Where''s the oil? How much is being pumped out of Iraq, and who is getting the money? The World Trade center was brought down by Saudis who had their flight lessons paid for by the wife of the Saudi ambassador''s wife. Why don''t the Saudis at least pay to rebuild the World Trade Center? These are the questions I ask as I drive past gas stations charging $3.60 for gas.

[downtowner97]

Cheney the prophet: I think that the proposition of going to Baghdad is also fallacious. I think if we were going to remove Saddam Hussein we would have had to go all the way to Baghdad, we would have to commit a lot of force because I do not believe he would wait in the Presidential Palace for us to arrive. I think we''d have had to hunt him down. And once we''d done that and we''d gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and his government, then we''d have had to put another government in its place. What kind of government? Should it be a Sunni government or Shi''i government or a Kurdish government or Ba''athist regime? Or maybe we want to bring in some of the Islamic fundamentalists? How long would we have had to stay in Baghdad to keep that government in place? What would happen to the government once U.S. forces withdrew? How many casualties should the United States accept in that effort to try to create clarity and stability in a situation that is inherently unstable? I think it is vitally important for a President to know when to use military force. I think it is also very important for him to know when not to commit U.S. military force. And it''s my view that the President got it right both times, that it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.
%u2014Cheney at the Washington Institute''s Soref Symposium, April 29, 1991

[downtowner97]

Clinton got involved in a civil war he did NOT start in Kosovo. We were responsible for the deaths of a great number of civilians, and the complete destruction of the Chinese embassy. All US personnel came home alive.

This is what George W Bush said about Kosovo on 4/9/99: %u201CVictory means exit strategy, and it%u2019s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.%u201D

This is what he said about his own war on 6/24/05: %u201CIt doesn%u2019t make any sense to have a timetable. You know, if you give a timetable, you%u2019re %u2014 you%u2019re conceding too much to the enemy.%u201D

You don''t have to make things up about Bush. He damns himself with his own words.