Comments on: White House, Dems. Discuss Auto Bailout

Agreement Closer On $15B Package; Bush Insists Loans Come From Green Cars Fund

[craigh9]

NO BAILOUTS! LET THEM FALL!!!
Posted by OzarkBard at 02:57 PM : Dec 05, 2008

The thing is they won''t fall. Not one of our politicians asked the direct question - IF WE SAY NO WILL YOU CLOSE OUR DOORS. Had they asked the answer would be - NO, they would use bankruptcy which is the proper avenue to use.

[ozarkbard]

NO BAILOUTS! LET THEM FALL!!!

[craigh9]

Giving a $34B bridge loan to the same management and labor union that has created this ridiculous situation is akin to giving the wolfe that ate all the chickens in the henhouse a rooster and a hen to repopulate it - IT JUST WON''T WORK - that "SPRIT" of cooperation between the Big 3 and UAW will vanish (along with our money) once it is in their hot little hands.

[craigh9]

I wish Warren Buffett or someone like that would step in and spend $1.35B to purchase the majority of stock in GM and Ford. They know how to run a business and would have no difficulty eliminating the deadwood and waste within those organizations and bring in people that would turn thins around quickly.
Wouldn''t that be a kick in the butt to all those suits?

[trying8]

I am not sure I am for the bailout either, but as I work in a dealership for one of the BIG 3 it will directly affect me. One point is we dont HAVE to buy new cars every three years we want to. That seems to be the problem we all want bigger better more all the time. Housing crisis because people who really couldnt afford a bigger better house got a bank to loan them that money and now we are being asked to take care of that problem. Not one of the bankers or insurance companies were grilled in front of America as to why this happened. Yet everyone seems to be taking delight in the process of running these compainies through the mud first. Only after they were spending our tax dollars on lavish vacations did we cry foul and that seems to have died down. Do we know what they are doing now??? Anyone watching them???
I agree that the Big 3 have dropped the ball in many areas but quite honestly this public flogging of these corporations is not doing the little guys (individual dealerships) any good. Not only the auto workers and Big 3 corporate execs are going to be affected..

[jsd330]

When enough is enough.
posted by unisources
I don''t know were you gpt your 60 million figure from, probobly Rush Limbaugh . What about Citigroup they came running back for more money, AIG is doing the same thing and they are an insurance company. I don''t hear anything about the employees of the banks taking a pay cut to save their jobs. I noticed you said the UAW workers should take a pay cut, what about management taking a pay cut. I am sure the suprvisors make a heck of a lot more then the workers do. Some people I know work at both GM & Ford, and they have all said they would be willing to take a pay cut, and they have taken pay freezes in the past and were supposed to get bonuses at the end of the year based on profits. Well the companies screwed them on that . They hid their true profits.
From my understanding if they cut their pay in half they would make about 13.00 per hour. At the toyota plant in Kentucky the workers make 25.00 per hour. I say let them freeze their wages until everyone else catches up, give them the loan, if your going to bailout insurance companies with their over inflated policy prices whats the difference.

[sepa2]

How about lawmakers accountability. They failed to provide leadership for so long. Carter in 1979 in his energy policy predicted energy crisis around 2000 and advise Detriot to change ways and get ready. But Reagan came everything became big (and wasteful with the full blessing of the public) and SUV era started. Bushes and Clinton did nothing and simply tow the line. Meanwhile lawmakers got millions to keep quite. Now they are acting like we told you so and is very annoying to say the least

[craigh9]

Tired of the political blow hards
- it is NOT the gov''ts job to bailout private companies
- NO WAY that the big 3 close without the bailout
- IF SOMEHOW THEY DID CLOSE - 40% of their operations would be back up and running withing 6 months and another 40% within another 12 months due to REAL business people buying the pieces and running them profitably- yes, thats a 20% reduction, but that is the MINIMUM redcution required to make the Big 3 profitable. Do we want 18 months of that pain - NO, but the bridge loan only prolongs the insanity and the pain will come anyway

[rickwar]

To the Big 3 and the UAW - everyone else in the country are sick of your salaries, wages, pensions, and being paid to stay home.

Posted by Koyt1 at 12:53 PM : Dec 05, 2008

You mean like a real job should be VS what we bought into as "competetive world economy wages"?

Do the math with the government current cost calculator. Say in 1974 you made $10.00 per hour today to mantain the same standard of living you need to make $43.61 and what are the UAW guys making per hour not counting benefits? Less than that. If in 1970 you made minimum wage you now need to make 9.72 per hour. What is minimum now? 7.25

In a metro area say your making 20 per hour now or 41,000 what type of house can you buy if you''ve never had one before? Even at 6 times your basic wages you could only affor a 240,000 home and you''d be tight.

Real jobs require real wages and the fact is most are not keeping up. So go ahead and blame the unions then ask how well are you doing?

Most of the gripes? Jealousy

[demdump]

boarder because of the tax benefits..... guess what... it works.

Posted by mbourn2

If this is works for more profits but we will lost alot of jobs, do you think this is ok to do this and if you calculated 100,000 companies to do this we all will be out of works and the Chinese will have more money to screws us, do you think this is ok ????

[ramos937]

I am aginist the auto bailout because of the below:

Ford - Ford has stated many times that it is profitable but wants the money only for insurance purposes.

Chrysler - Chrysler is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, NYC. Cerberus owns many companies here and aboard. It is capitalized at over $24 billion. It will not come to Chrysler''s rescue because it wants us to do that. If Chrysler does become profitable somehow, Cerberus stands to make billions.

GM - In the late 70s, Lee Iocacca took a number of steps to rescue Chrysler then: (1) went under Chapter 11 and renegotiated contracts with the UAW and other folks, (2) the US guaranteed borrowings. These borrowings were later paid back. (3) sold many unprofitable assets, etc. As we all know, Chrysler returned to profitability and Lee was a hero then. Why cannot GM do the same? Lee showed the way.

[mbourn2]

A couple of year ago I got layoff from a company , because the CEO wanted a litle more than 8% profit per quater so what did he do ? He decided to move a whole division to China and layoff my whole dept.

SO THIS IS ANY PRESIDENT FAULT ??????ANY ONE.

I''''m telling you all the CEO''''s here are the one to blame..


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Posted by Demdump
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"Blame"? A CEO has a fiduciary obligation to the share holders of his corporation. If he can move part of his operation to a more business friendly environment then he has a duty to do so. I live in Minnesota and South Dakota runs adds on Twin Cities Radio every day trying to get companies to relocate across the boarder because of the tax benefits..... guess what... it works.

[acadianasoun]

No more bailouts not even for the big three.Uncle Sam should send the taxpayers that money.The country would be in great shape with in weeks.Thats the bailout this country needs.Besides it''s our money.We should get it instead of giving it away to to these big shots.They will never pay this back they are already to far in the hole to every come . Take my word some of these car companies will be closed with or without a bailout loan.Please don''t throw away our money.

[demdump]

A couple of year ago I got layoff from a company , because the CEO wanted a litle more than 8% profit per quater so what did he do ? He decided to move a whole division to China and layoff my whole dept.

SO THIS IS ANY PRESIDENT FAULT ??????ANY ONE.

I''m telling you all the CEO''s here are the one to blame..

[be_real]

CEO''s are not worth the millions they get pay. This crisis proves it.

[craigh9]

I must be missing the point here!We gave 700 billion dollars to the banking system whose overwhelming greed got us into this in the first place but we can''''t give 34 billion to the carmakers to survive so we can maybe save 1.5 million jobs????I say let the banking system fail and save the automakers jobs.


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Posted by arnldmartin at 12:17 PM : Dec 05, 2008

If the banks were allowed to fail EVERY major manufacturing compnay in the country would be shuttered by now - INCLUDING THE BIG 3

The difference is the financial SYSTEM is an intrical part of every bit of business in this country. The big 3, while large and certainly would cause great pain initially if they closed, only provide one type of product that would still be available - not only through other companies, but would be made available through new owners that would buy up pieces of the existing big 3 and run them profitably.
This is not an either or - there are many options in between, its just that the fat cats and the UAW that are sucking the companies dry don''t want things to change.
No help to banking would have created tremendous chaos - no help to the auto industry only creates short term manageable pain.

[mbourn2]

Top Reasons to NEVER Vote RepubliCON

They HATE Working People ! --- We ARE the working people. We don''t expect Government to take care of us.

They Hate the idea of workers having Rights --- Workers should have the right to contract with an employer for what ever the MARKET value of their job is. If a legal American citizen is willing to do the job for less then it would be irresponsible for a company to pay more for no reason.... Thats how you get compans that need bailouts... Just ask the UAW.

They think everybody should be Happy to Serve them. --- No idea what this means. I have worked since I was 10 and am offended when someone who does not even try to work gets to take what I earn.

They think the constitution is to be like Charmin. --- Not sure what this means. Republicans have traditionally been strict constructionist. (look it up)

They take a Wide-Stance against Human Rights --- If that means protecting human rights around the world when Libs think we should look the other way then... Yes.... Guilty.`

I could go on.... but the post would be too long and you get the idea anyway...

[odinnasgaard]

My point is you should not have to buy a new car every 3 years, like the auto makers want you to.

Posted by sly_64 at 12:59 PM : Dec 05, 2008

I don''t know of many people who buy a new car every 3 years. I know people who lease cars and get new ones every 2 years, and most of those are foreign cars (Mercedes, Lexus, etc). My newest American made car is 5 years old, and I have another one that is 12 years old. Nothing wrong with either one. I can walk around the parking lot at work here and the new cars I see in the lot are mostly foreign made, a few older Hondas, and a lot of older Dodge, Chevy and Fords. I don''t know where you get the idea that American made cars only last 3 years.

[cowman290]

I hope there is no bailout unless there is a complete restructure including the biggest expense, labor. What the UAW demanded and the companies agreed to is ridiculous. Union labor seems to be the sacred cow that no one in Washington wants to openly discuss. That is why there is no support for a bailout amongst the majority of US citizens. Someone stated in a previous post that Obama must full fill an IOU based on campaign rhetoric to the UAW. I sure hope not.

[terrorislame]

Top Reasons to NEVER Vote RepubliCON

They HATE Working People !
They Hate the idea of workers having Rights !
They think everybody should be Happy to Serve them.
They think the constitution is to be like Charmin.
They take a Wide-Stance against Human Rights !
They want to pollute every stream,Kill every animal and rape all land to make more money.
They want to award Huge contracts to their friends in business without accountability.
They would rather tell a lie on credit before telling the truth for cash.
They only want to obey laws that they choose to.
They only want to count the votes that favor them.
They use hypocrisy,bigotry and fear tactics daily.
They are the Scum of the earth and should be used as bio-fuel.


They Love Big Companies !