Comments on: Automakers Make Their Bailout Pitches

Big 3 Vow To Slash Workers, Exec Pay In Return For Federal Lifeline; GM Seeks $18B To Survive

[txgrouch2007]

Anybody wanna loan some money for people to buy an $80,000 elecric car, which carries a $40,000/car patent royalty to the patent owners....
Posted by txgrouch2007 at 07:41 AM : Dec 03, 2008

I''m sorry, that was off-topic wasn''t it.

Just remember the topic - the SAME BUMS WHO FED US TO THE WOLVES NOW WANT A BAILOUT.

There, that was back on-topic.

[txgrouch2007]

Then five years ago they scrapped the entire program and SHREDDED ALL EXISTING CARS.
Posted by txgrouch2007 at 07:36 AM : Dec 03, 2008

Oh, I forgot to mention - they SOLD THEIR MAJOR ELECTRIC CAR PATENTS TO THE OIL COMPANIES when they scrapped the development program.

Now if they re-start the program, THE OIL COMPANIES CONTROL THE KEY PATENTS that will be needed to make the cars.

Hmmm, the same companies that were gouging us for $4/gal will control the royalties on the patents to make the SAME ELECTRIC CAR GM WAS MAKING TEN YEARS AGO.

Anybody wanna loan some money for people to buy an $80,000 elecric car, which carries a $40,000/car patent royalty to the patent owners....

[txgrouch2007]

LET EXXON AND THE OIL COMPANIES BAIL OUT THE BIG 3! After all they made trillions of dollars over the last decades by teaming up against the American people and with the Big 3 by getting them to produce very inefficient vehicles in order for them to sell more gasoline!
Posted by allenbryan2 at 07:30 AM : Dec 03, 2008

Do some research on the GM EV-1 electric car.

Oil companies are major stock holders in the automakers.

GM introduced a SUCCESSFUL electic car ten years ago. They were developing hybrid versions of this vehicle.

Then five years ago they scrapped the entire program and SHREDDED ALL EXISTING CARS.

Only NOW GM is promising to introduce THE SAME CAR "next year."

In the mean time, their major stockholders were gouging us for $4/gallon at the pumps.

WEREN''T THEY?????

Can YOU read the handwriting on the wall......?

[lf1952]

stupidrules3 said: If the Big 3 aren''t bailed out and we see them fail this downfall in our economy will last a decade or more.
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Sorry, but absolutely not true. As soon as the credit markets are secure and confidence is back, the economy will start to recover. The big problem remains mortgages that people can''t pay. Time will resolve that with the help already in place.
That won''t change the mileage American made cars get, their maintenance requirements or their quality.

Now, many localized places will be badly hurt, just as have been the areas around every military base Congress closed, but the US will be just fine and MAYBE, just MAYBE, someone will take what is left of the US car manufacturing industry and make a competitive company from it.
The UAW has already said that they would rather have no job than cut labor costs the amount required to compete..so give them their wish, just as given to the Eastern Airlines employees when they were told the company would fold without major labor costs reduction. You can''t just *create* money to pay labor - the product has to sell, and US made cars don''t.
Sorry, but economic reality just REFUSES to conform to wishes - which is what %u201Clabor" really wants - high salary, high benefits, and guaranteed income no matter what - regardless of how well what they make sells...surprise! You can only pay people what their product can be sold for. Americans cars don''t sell. The auto makers outside the US understand this.

[allenbryan2]

LET EXXON AND THE OIL COMPANIES BAIL OUT THE BIG 3! After all they made trillions of dollars over the last decades by teaming up against the American people and with the Big 3 by getting them to produce very inefficient vehicles in order for them to sell more gasoline!

[txgrouch2007]

Going from one form of suicide to another...and the GOP wonders why it is in severe decline!
Posted by torva at 07:24 AM : Dec 03, 2008

Partisan Bush-bashing is one reason why we''re trapped in this junkie economy.

Bush-bashing is like a drug to you. You''re a Bush basher junkie.

[txgrouch2007]

Congress is acting like a drug addict. They''re saying "Yes, I know bailouts are bad for us. I know we''ve done too many already. But we really NEED just one more..."

When you start convincing yourself that you NEED something that you KNOW is harmful, you''re an addict.

Congress is a bailout junkie. We''re living in a junkie economy. And we''re going down like a junkie.

[torva-2009]

Posted by txgrouch2007 at 07:17 AM : Dec 03, 2008

Going from one form of suicide to another...and the GOP wonders why it is in severe decline!

[txgrouch2007]

The only reason we aren''t talking tariffs instead of bailouts, is that we''re in collective denial that bailouts has become a chronic syndrome.

Nobody wants to face the fact that as soon as Congress finished handing out one bailout, another bailout is following close on its heels.

BAILOUTS ARE BECOMING A DANGEROUS HABIT. The only reason we aren''t seeking alternatives is that everyone wants to pretend "this is the last one, for real this time, well except just this one more...."

TARIFFS, NOT BAILOUTS!!!

[txgrouch2007]

What''s better, TARIFFS or BAILOUTS?

Here''s a clue - BAILOUTS means the government is GIVING money out. It might come back eventually, but can we afford to wait that long?

TARIFFS bring money INTO the government.

WHICH IS WORSE??????

Of course protectionism is harmful. BUT AREN''T BAILOUTS EVEN MORE HARMFUL????

If we keep going down the road of more and more bailouts, won''t this be even MORE harmful than tariffs?????

THEN WHY NOT STOP THE BAILOUTS AND START TALKING TARIFFS INSTEAD??????????????????

[zietzke-2009]

NO WAY !!

These monkeys should have seen this coming years ago.

They hire these big shot finance gurus to run the show, making huge money...Bonuses, stock options...and look what happens ! A TRAIN WRECK !

In business they have what is known as a STRATEGIC PLANNING....Not here. These bums just kept making their gas guzzling SUV''s....Tough luck boys. Its time you suffer just like everyone else.

Hey, why not just take a vacation to Europe just like the bums at AIG ?

[txgrouch2007]

WHY IS CONGRESS EVEN TALKING TO THESE JOKERS??????

Because their bailout is a DONE DEAL, and everyone knows it. They''re just going through this charade to pretend they listened to the people BRIEFLY, before they rolled over and dropped a shipload of cash on these bums, while the ordinary Americans are struggling to pay for groceries.

CONGRESS IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE. But the imbecile voters blame only the President, and they just re-elected most of the criminal enemies of the people, the gang of traitors called Congress.

[txgrouch2007]

If the Big 3 aren''''t bailed out and we see them fail this downfall in our economy will last a decade or more. IT''''S THE ECONOMY!! NOT THE AMERICAN CAR THAT SUCKS!
Posted by kites70 at 03:56 AM : Dec 03, 2008

You''re absolutely right. Our problems run far, far deeper than the failures of just these three companies.

Bailouts are just a bandaid on a hemorrhage. In my opinion, our economic collapse will continue unless we apply TARIFFS, at least temporarily, to stem the flood of jobs leaving the country.

TARIFFS, NOT BAILOUTS.

We''ve been saying for years that US automakers need to get their act together. The automakers are the WORST run businesses in the USA.

WHY ARE WE PROPOSING TO BAIL OUT THE WORST EXAMPLES OF CORPORATE FAILURE IN AMERICA???

[stupidrules3]

If the Big 3 aren''''t bailed out and we see them fail this downfall in our economy will last a decade or more. IT''''S THE ECONOMY!! NOT THE AMERICAN CAR THAT SUCKS!

It''''s a good thing you people aren''''t running our government. Lol!


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Posted by kites70 at 03:56 AM : Dec 03, 2008
+ report abuse

How much money are we supposed to throw at these dinosaurs? This "too big to fail" excuse is wearing thin. Failed business practices will never achieve profitability. These companies will not change enough to justify the bailout. As painful as it is, the big 3 must reap the harvest that their greedy ans narcissistic ways have sown.

[andylance1]

The auto bailout issue has more to do with Congress than the US auto industry. It is clear that at least three-quarters of the public is opposed to the Detroit Bailout. Ask yourself, why do so many people drive Korean and Japanese cars? Value, Price, Quality, Style, Better Mileage.

This is a sanity test for members of congress. GM is asking for $18 billion - twice as much as Ford is asking for. This means that GM is twice as likely to fail as Ford. A few years ago Ford hired their CEO who previously was a top executive at Boeing. Wagoner at GM is the idiot who killed the electric car project at GM in 2003.

Senator Reid has the lowest opinion imaginable about the US public. When he opened up the new congressional visitor center yesterday, he said, Thank God! Now we won''t have to smell the stinking public in the summer time. Pelosi and Reid are the two most arrogant fools in Washington, and they will prove their insanity if they vote to give Detroit any money.

[nuffera]

Humbled? Yea right! They may have driven to town in a hybrid, luaghing their collective butts off! Do you actually think these "we are the elite, we deserve everything" have actually been humbled? If anyone believes this, they must be brain dead! Let them fail, they created the mess with their greed and let them all get nose bleeds coming down from their perches!!!!

[vcofreason]

Did they come this time first class and leave the jets home? These pompous morons deserve NOTHING.

[u-r-right]

These dealerships rode a nice cash wave for quite a while. They got away with $100 plus per hour labor charges for service. When times were good, they would see plenty who would pay $200-$400 for their "very impportant" scheduled maintenance service. Now the customers have found other alternatives through independent shops or do it themselves. Its really prety simple.

Same goes for their car prices. The MSRP joke, the wheeling and dealing, let me go talk to my manager shell game. Overpriced vehicles, mediocre standard warranties after the sale and bait and switch tactics. All the vehicles on the lot, loaded with unwanted options...sorry, must take delviery from dealer stock and oh, here, also pay this "prep" fee.

Maybe if they charged fair prices from the start, the dealers wouldn''''t be in this mess. They have had plenty of time to adapt or die.

[lf1952]

No bailout.

These are FAILED businesses.

We need auto manufacturers who:
(1) Produce fuel efficient vehicles
(2) Produce vehicles that meet or exceed Japanese and European craftsmanship
(3) keep labor costs competitive to the rest of the world

None of the "Big 3" US automakers will EVER meet that standard. We need to start over from scratch. No bailout, now or ever. I don''t care how much smoke and mirrors they can produce in Washington.

Now, I admit that to ask Democrats to NOT bow at the feet of "Big Labor" may well be too much to ask, although we can hope that President Obama might actually put the country and US citizens (taxpayers) first, based on what he has said.

[kites70]

"""The Big 3 management team ought to develop a business relationship with their counterparts at the Honda and Toyota manufacturing plants and get a reality check on how to operate a successful auto manufacturing business."""

Uhhh... Toyota''s sales dropped something like 30% last month. They''re not doing any better.

If the Big 3 aren''t bailed out and we see them fail this downfall in our economy will last a decade or more. IT''S THE ECONOMY!! NOT THE AMERICAN CAR THAT SUCKS!

It''s a good thing you people aren''t running our government. Lol!