Comments on: Dems Put Auto Bailout Vote On Hold
Congressional Leaders Demand Big 3 Automakers Show Viable Business Plan
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- In bad times, people do not buy new cars,
Posted by harbinger09 at 01:10 AM : Nov 21, 2008
That''s true but not a revelation - Reply to this comment
- Then why has the GOP marched out one of it''''s talking points running all over the Internet and right wing talk radio, saying that the avg pay for a UAW $73 per hour including bennies
Mine was a rough estimate and much closer to the Avg that''''s all
Posted by itdfactsu at 01:10 AM : Nov 21, 2008
The cons are lying for a class war. They know that most Americans would be jealous and have little sympathy for people making 73.00/hour. But it is a lie. The only people who make that kind of money are mgmt and they are salaried not hourly. Even skilled trade cannot pull those kind of dollars unless they are waaaaay up there. On another note--horrible as it is--I am for unions, I can see the horror that awaits us if th big 3 fail and yet I am still against a bail out (was against the one for WAll street too) because a bailout will not save those 3 and most likely will not save wall street--it will just save a lot of money where Senators, Presidents and others have accounts and buy a little time. Make no mistake--a crash is coming and 25 billion thrown at it is like throwing a ton of ice cream at a comet hurtling toward the earth. It is a waste of money. This is going to hurt. A lot. - Reply to this comment
- Posted by harbinger09 at 01:10 AM : Nov 21, 2008
US automakers are charge a tariff on vehicles ship to Malaysia
In Europe you''ll pay the same for a toyota as a BMW because the Euro''s protect their automakers
Something the US Govt doesn''t do for it''s own companies here
look it up that''s just one point of this discussion i''ll state now that you don''t know anything about - Reply to this comment
- China is waiting to pounce on the BIG 3 and soon they''''ll be the owners of those companies. Isn''''t that wonderful.
The USA auto giants GM and Ford helped the USA and it''''s allies win world war II and now they need the US Govt help and the Republicans and spineless Dems are saying come back with a plan.
Posted by itdfactsu at 01:00 AM : Nov 21, 2008
I agree with you about unions but let''s be fair--which of these auto giants are really American? Much of each car is built/manufactured in Mexico, India etc and then reshipped here for assembly and labeling as an American product.
Know what killed the American auto industry? When they were forced to make better cars and destoyed their "every 3 to 5 year new car" necessity. Japan did it--by building a better car and stopping Chrysler and others from making such shoddy cars that consumers had to buy within a few years. Now, even Chrysler cars can last with proper maintenance. Only 5% of Americans buy a new car just to have a new car--the rest buy when the old one wears out or repairs outweigh the new payment. In bad times, people do not buy new cars, they buy hoop-Ts and repair what they have. - Reply to this comment
- No one counts benfits when figuring out gross salary.
Posted by harbinger09 at 01:05 AM : Nov 21, 2008
Then why has the GOP marched out one of it''s talking points running all over the Internet and right wing talk radio, saying that the avg pay for a UAW $73 per hour including bennies
Mine was a rough estimate and much closer to the Avg that''s all - Reply to this comment
- BTW, all the clueless punk face a holes bashing unions don''''t know what about the struggles, blood, sweat and tears that paved the way for better working conditions and wages for todays union worker
Posted by itdfactsu at 01:00 AM : Nov 21, 2008
No one counts benfits when figuring out gross salary. My brother is a semi-skilled tradesman and trouble shooter for Chrysler. His base pay is 22.50/hour not counting overtime. One of my best friends works in casting for Chrysler. Her starting pay is 19.00/hour.
Who makes 40.00/hour? Skilled trade? What company? And the ratio of skilled trade to ordinary factory worker is what? 1: 12? - Reply to this comment
- "Until they show us the plan, We cannot show them the money," Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said at a hastily called news conference in the Capitol.
Where has the $300 billion gone that Paulson handed out already, did you Nancy ask for a plan back then?
What a crock and another lie the GOP keeps pushing that UAW wokers avg $73 per hour, what a stinking lie
With bennies the avg UAW earns around $40 per hour that includes people that have spent over half their lives slaving away for those companies
Sure working conditions have improved for UAW workers over the last 60 years and so have the wages but most of these UAW workers live modest lives. One home, a couple vehicles one vacation a year. Working for GM or Ford for thirty years those folks and there families will tell you they earned every penny. Unlike the GQ, pedicured white collar Republicans.
China is waiting to pounce on the BIG 3 and soon they''ll be the owners of those companies. Isn''t that wonderful.
The USA auto giants GM and Ford helped the USA and it''s allies win world war II and now they need the US Govt help and the Republicans and spineless Dems are saying come back with a plan.
How sad
BTW, all the clueless punk face a holes bashing unions don''t know what about the struggles, blood, sweat and tears that paved the way for better working conditions and wages for todays union worker - Reply to this comment
- CORRECTION:
The 6% only covers those who still collect unemployment. If you have been UNemployed longer than 90 days, have given up looking for work, or are in a lower paying job or even part time job--you are not counted. - Reply to this comment
- YOU DO THE MATH. They claim they need 25 billion to fix themselves--but by their own reckoning, such money would not last 2 months between the 3 of them.
25 divided by 3 = about 8,350,000.00 each.
-Ford needs a billion per month just for expenses that is at least 5 billion by April. Chrysler?
GM needs 4 to 5 billion each month meaning that to last until April just handling expenses would take ip a least 20 billion best case scenario or 25 billion worst case--except they always fudge, knowing that after Congress is on the hook, they can hit them up for more and Congress will likely comply or admit that they wasted our money. So 25 billion is a LIE. Maybe more like 100 to 200 billion or more--and that is not for innovation, just for survival--and that still depends on the rest of us starting to buy their product--but with what? the Jobless rate is NOT at 6% it is much higher. The 6% only covers those who still collect unemployment. If you have been employed longer than 90 days, have given up looking for work, or are in a lower paying job or even part time job--you are not counted.
The jobless rate is est by some sources to be almost 12% or higher. So who will buy the cars? The outsourced? The people scared about their industry/jobs being next? The low wage service worker? The illegal immigrant? Who the fvck is left to stop the bleeding after April?
We are not headed towards deep doo doo--past that--we ARE in it--up to our bottom lips. - Reply to this comment
- See how well the first almost trillion dollar Dem pushed bailout is failing?
Now see the Dems--already trying to tread water with one leg cut off--now they are reaching for that new lead life preserver anchor, from the bigand thinking that will float them for a while.....what friggin idiots. - Reply to this comment
- Yes, but so be it. If they won''''''''t make quality, affordable products, we''''''''ll all go the better route .....Posted by TheMasses10 at 07:07 PM : Nov 20, 2008
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From what i hear they are making much better cars. I think perception has lagged reality. I do know that certain auto workers are making in the neighborhood of 150000.00 a year and that when layed off get 95% of their salaries. comparable toyota workers get about 60%. It seems to me that they have to ask is it worth keeping my current salary in exchange for the business to go under. Pilots don''''t get paid as much as union auto makers.
Posted by alanrobisch2 at 07:23 PM : Nov 20, 2008
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IT does not matter what they make. With the economy falling apart and lenders pocketing their bailout money, what consumer is so sure of their job and it lasting that they will take a risk and expend on a car right now? It is sort of like thinking that if a person is about to fall over a cliff, they should be willing to branch out on getting a lead weight and an umbrella.
Use common sense--this is not the economy to spend and no job is immune from destruction. - Reply to this comment
- It would seem that if Congress was going to bail out everyone but the middle class then there goes more half the nation down the drain what happens to them?
Posted by wdh3007 at 08:05 PM : Nov 20, 2008
Simple--we bail out all businesses and as for the rest of America--the may not have a job--but they will get to keep the tax cuts Bush enacted and they will have the option to buy gov health insurance, if they ever get a job again. - Reply to this comment
- Kill this corporate welfare package. If their leaders can unashamedly fly into Washington in private jets, they obviously "don''''t get it".
In recent years, they lobbied against any rules that would have resulted in better mileage for cars and improved safety for drivers. In other words, they lobbied against building cars that people actually want. So, I say screw them. Let them go bankrupt.
Posted by cdfoxtrot5
I would tend to agree, but unfortunaly if they go bankrupt, the CEO''s wont suffer nearly as much as the employees, not only of the big 3 auto makers, but thousands of people who work for companies that make parts, dealerships, etc...
Congress may have no choice, but IF we have to bail them out there should be strict conditions, the first of which is all 3 CEO''s lose their jobs with NO severance pay.. zero.. a big fat NADA! - Reply to this comment
- Okay. Now I''m scared. We (DEMs) pushed for the $700 million, and NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THIS MONEY IS GOING or at least they are not saying. So this fantastic bailout plan ISN''T working so far (unless it was to secure voter support for the election). Now you wanna bailout Detroit? The word for today ..... BANKRUPTCY. For too long auto industry workers have enjoyed the good life. Let Bankruptcy Courts absolve those stupid UAW contracts, and help restructure that industry.
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- Leave it to the architect of the credit crisis (Sen. Dodd) to propose funding a failing business model. I just can''t figure out why the people of Connecticut keeping voting this idiot back in congress; doesn''t say much for the education system in that state.
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- They call it free enterprise, so let them enterprise the hell out of their CEO''s. Cut the CEO''s pay and work out a more reasonable union contract. Why should we bail out bad judgement and poor management? I say let them restructure their car companies and work out new union contracts and negotiate lower CEO pay.
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- remember when Southwestern Bell was the only game in town when it came to phone service and they touted that they could do what they wanted because we didn''t have a choice? Gee...have you called the phone company lately? They all but wipe your bu.tt to keep you happy. Free enterprise is such a beautiful thing.
The Democrats are that stupid, too. Politicians continue to play like they have all the power and no one can do anything to stop them. The Republicans found out. The Democrats will over step and over reach and eventually tick voters off and the scales will tip again. But do you really think politicians, in general, ever learn? Pathetic creatures but still necessary evils needed to keep the wheels turning. - Reply to this comment
- What carmakers burn through in a month pales in comparison to what our country as a collective whole burns through in a lot less time than that. I love hearing the politicians casting criticism.
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- If GM was really doing so well then why does the Century Business Herald report that chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler China%u2019s 21st Century?
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- While the Big Three worry about paying their bills next month, Japan''s car markers are already planning for next year and after %u2026 so that when the recession ends, Americans will have even more reasons to buy Japanese.
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