Comments on: Desperate Automakers Launch PR Campaign

Big Three Deploy Grassroots Tactics, Web Sites, Newspaper Ads For Bailout Help

[kansas1946]

Well, maybe when a company is losing money, they shouldn''t be giving their management huge bonuses, lavish expense accounts, fly them around in hugely expensive coporate jets, and then beg for a handout. Much of the current crisis is not altogether the auto companies fault, but they do bear much of the responsibility. We will probably need to do something, but I think there needs to be a big change of attitude about the value of CEOs and manangements worth. No one is worth what these guys have been getting. No one.

[txgrouch2007]

Something to ponder, GM closed up today.
Posted by rickwar at 06:16 PM : Nov 20, 2008

Yes, once a stock reaches "junk" status (as GM did in July, for reasons you haven''t explained yet), its value tends to fluctuate randomly. Mostly due to the activity of speculators.

Nobody even tries to match its performance to the market or to anything rational. It''s just randomness and noise.

That''s why they call it "junk."

[treknutz]

Desperate Automakers Launch PR Campaign:

Gee Wiz Wally! Where are they getting the money for these very expensive ads? Thought they were broke?
Guess they think we are from the RepubliCON base!

[wl7bzh]

Guess you forget, I own 3 of my own businesses, none affliated with the auto business in the last decade.

And you still sound like the same idiot that posted away during the election with BS.

Posted by rickwar at 04:14 PM : Nov 20, 2008

Rick,

You seem to be a little vague about the 3 businesses you own. It might help your cred if you just came out and stated the businesses.

[txgrouch2007]

Paying higher prices wont fix the economy. It will just make us need more money to pay higher prices. Posted by machineguy at 04:06 PM : Nov 20, 2008

Try this revolutionary idea: one man''s price is another man''s wages.

Paying low prices at Wal-mart means somebody''s wages are similarly low. And when you''re talking prices that low, the worker isn''t even in this country, which compounds the problem

You can either pay a higher price, or you can get the lower price but no income, so you can''t buy it at any price.

Higher prices means wages are higher. That includes YOU. That makes it EASIER for us to buy the bare minimum of essential imports (such as molybdenum, which simply doesn''t exist in usable quantities within our borders, so we have to import it).

If we didn''t import so much, we wouldn''t care if nobody buys our exports. We will always have something that isn''t available anywhere else, so our exports of those items will balance out the essential imports.

[txgrouch2007]

Clearly, the Big Three *are* selling what the US public is demanding...and they *ARE* profitable...until the Wall Street/GOP created economic meltdown.
Posted by justaguy11 at 05:50 PM : Nov 20, 2008

Another reality check for you - you work for GM, so maybe you have the "party line" answer:

Why did GM stock drop from 23 in April to below 10 in July - BEFORE the big meltdown???

Obviously, something ELSE was going wrong.

[farremoved]

I''''ve posted facts. Numbers. And provided links to the sources of those facts.

Posted by justaguy11

Yes you did.....now go back to your job at one of the big 3 or to your pension from one of the big 3 and stop trying so hard to convince others to bail these giant, wasteful corporations out of their self-imposed crisis. Many, many people much smarter than me believe the business model followed by the big 3 has been outdated for over 20 years and I do agree.

[jsutaguy]

Your facts are just that-yours. You know no more than anyone else who reads. Your facts are no more pure than they are speculative. You want to bail out the limp 3, why don''''t you clean out your accounts and send them all YOUR $. I chose not to but we (you and I and everyone else here) has no choice now do we? Your arguements fall on ears that make no difference in the outcome. What is your motivation anyway? Why are you trying to con these people in here to support this abortion anyway?


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Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:50 PM : Nov 20, 2008

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Oh, I see. You don''t understand what the word "Fact" means.

Facts are not subjective, numbnuts.

I''ve posted facts. Numbers. And provided links to the sources of those facts.

You? You''ve posted not so much, except, as I noted, insults, misdirections, off-topic anti-Obama rants, blah, blah, blah.

[rickwar]

Something to ponder, GM closed up today.

[rickwar]

As far as rants and raves and changing topics; it''''s called being a human being. You may want to try it sometime. There is something called a sense of humor - Google it. It may help you win more debates at this worthless blogsite.


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Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:52 PM : Nov 20, 2008

If it''s so useless why are you here? Try doing something useful then.

[jsutaguy]

It%u2019s a BRIDGE LOAN! Not "BAILOUT"!

Clearly, the Big Three *are* selling what the US public is demanding...and they *ARE* profitable...until the Wall Street/GOP created economic meltdown.

1. GM outsold Toyota by about a third this year. Ford outsold Honda by about a third.. The number one selling vehicle in the USA this year is the F150 pickup....for the 32nd year in a row... The number 2 selling vehicle is the Chevy Silverado pickup...http://tinyurl.com/5t83ba...and this is DURING THE GAS CRISIS WITH 5$ a gallon gas in California!!


2. GM had returned to profitability last year BEFORE the Wall Street corruption debacle: http://tinyurl.com/292pzx


3. If the government denies the big 3 the 25 Billion, then the government (i.e. you and me) will become responsible for over 500 BILLION IN PENSIONS that are guaranteed via the Federal PBGC: http://tinyurl.com/5v7wu2

4. The questions to ask are,
"Why are Bush and Paulsen not making the banks lend the 25 Billion to the Big Three?". This is less than 3% of the money WE%u2019VE ALREADY GIVEN TO WALL STREET!!!
"Why aren%u2019t Bush and Paulsen making the banks lend AT ALL?". (As England did) http://tinyurl.com/5gzzlt
"Why are Bush and Paulsen, supposedly security conservatives, not concerned about the permanent failure of the 3 largest manufacturing firms in the USA? Are we supposed to buy our military vehicles from JAPAN??? Is the military supposed to BUY VEHICLES from Overseas for our military?

[jsutaguy]

See my 5:17 response-again. What is it, you don''''t want to hear the answer or you refuse?
Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:21 PM : Nov 20, 2008

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I have a hard time separating your rants, from your insults, from your subject changes, from anything that looks like a real opinion coming from you....thought I''d give you a chance to actually state an opinion....I guess that is a little overwhelming for you....actually having to take a position and discuss it based on facts.

[jsutaguy]

No more loans, bailouts, nada. Their mistake-their accountablity. No more. The working man already has to look forward to an almost 50% increase in taxation with the Obama administration. You think it''''s bad now, just wait. This isn''''t a left/right issue - we''''re ALL getting screwed.


Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:21 PM : Nov 20, 2008
No more loans, bailouts, nada. Their mistake-their accountablity. No more. The working man already has to look forward to an almost 50% increase in taxation with the Obama administration. You think it''''s bad now, just wait. This isn''''t a left/right issue - we''''re ALL getting screwed.


Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:21 PM : Nov 20, 2008

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Blah, blah, blah, subject change. If you can''t answer a question, then say so, but I''m not following you off topic into your "anti-Obama boo hoo" spiel.

Again, let me ask you, do you think the Big 3 should be allowed to fail?

[rickwar]

No more loans, bailouts, nada. Their mistake-their accountablity. No more. The working man already has to look forward to an almost 50% increase in taxation with the Obama administration. You think it''''s bad now, just wait. This isn''''t a left/right issue - we''''re ALL getting screwed.


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Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:21 PM : Nov 20, 2008

More BS from the same old source.

[jsutaguy]

The bottom line, the only concern I have is that the $ is ultimately coming out of my pocket for their mistakes. PERIOD. We don''''t need a liberal statistician manipulating #s to see that.


Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:17 PM : Nov 20, 2008
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Okay, try this: It wasn''t the Big 3''s mistakes that put them in this spot this time, it was the Greed on Wall Street. Since you''ve already funded 1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS in giveaways to Wall STreet, perhaps you support forcing Wall Street to loan the money to the Big Three, since it represents less than 3% of the money WE''VE ALREADY GIVEN WALL STREET.

BTW, being able to add 3 numbers does not a statistician make. In addition (no pun intended) I am nobody''s idea of a liberal, pumpkin. Like the other guy posting here, I''ve worked since I was young, and I know how to think.

I know when the media or the GOP (who has decided that propaganda is better than action) is manipulating the public for its own reasons.

I''m not having it.

Letting the Big 3 fail is stupidity of the highest order, and even the GOP knows this...yet they are trying to cause it to happen.

[rickwar]

The bottom line, the only concern I have is that the $ is ultimately coming out of my pocket for their mistakes. PERIOD. We don''''t need a liberal statistician manipulating #s to see that.


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Posted by TheMasses10 at 05:17 PM : Nov 20, 2008

Just exactly how much do you think this is going to cost you personally in taxes?

[jsutaguy]

Now what really put me over the edge...
Posted by farremoved
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I agree with the perception, but not the conclusion.

7 million people should be converted from taxpayers to unemployment recipients? 7 million on-time mortgages should become foreclosures? 500 Billion in Pension fund guarantees should be shifted onto the Federal Ledger due to the Federal PBGC guarantees because 2 guys, who fly to 3 or 4 differnt locations a day, took their PREVIOUSLY CHARTERED jets to get to Washington?

Let''s try a different approach: Since you HAVE the overpaid CEOs sitting in front of you, asking for money on behalf of their companies BECAUSE WALL STREET DESTROYED OUR ECONOMY AND DESTROYED THE LOAN PROCESS, how''s about perhaps giving them the loan by MAKING THE BANKS PROVIDE THE MONEY? maybe require that they fly commercial from now on.

Hmmm? How''s about that?

Also, how''s about passing a new bill prohibiting the use of TARP funds for bonus OR salary payments OR acquisition funding for takeovers?

Use your head. The smart choice isn''t "Loan vs No-Loan". The choice is "Loan from where with what conditions."

[buckscc]

I''m going to buy a Honda!

Lets get rid of those Unions.

The exccessive cost of labor is what is causing the problem.

[jsutaguy]

Hey "TheMasses10", let''s hear your finely wrought and exquisitely researched opinion about the bridge loan the Big 3 are requesting from the FED/Congress.

I''m waiting.

[farremoved]

Richard Shelby, supported by Wall Street contributions, as the designated GOP spokeman for the "let the Big Three Fail" talking points, helped give over half a BILLION in taxpayer money to build Mercedes, Honda, Hyundai plants in his home state of Alabama.

Posted by justaguy11

And if you don''t believe that financial incentives are offered at the federal, state and local level, in any city or town to companies for building new facilities and creating jobs in their region then you really are uninformed.

Now what really put me over the edge, in favor of no bailout for the big 3, was when these 3 CEO''s flew in private jets to beg for help in DC at an average expense of 20k for the roundtrip flight...........they came across as selfish, arrogant pukes that don''t deserve the help from the american taxpayers!