Comments on: With Or Without Bailout, Tough Times Ahead

Recession Likely; Higher Unemployment, More Bank Failures Possible, Financial Experts Warn

[ursodumb]

territorial concessions could happen. the chinese could demand land for cash. ive read the art of war a few times and so i cant claim to know how the chinese think but the book does say to attack when the enemy can be beaten and not until. so they could say they wanted all pacific territories, maybe demand alaska. in exchange for not cutting off the cash supply. if they cut off the cash supply and america grinds to a halt, what better time to attack? could a war start over 50 trillion dollars?

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by URSODUMB

No, they could not demand amendments to our constitution, only a super-majority of American citizens can do that.

What will happen is that the collapse of the US dollar will create conditions like Wiemar Germany, a suitcase of bills for a loaf of bread, general anarchy in the streets, local "turf wars", essentially the dissolution of the US as a country.

Territorial concessions will be a moot point, whoever lives in a given area and has the support of the other residents, controls that area. There will be no Chinese, Russian, or any other foreign armies marching into New York, heck you saw during the LA riots that even our own military couldn''t control a large angry mob.

Even the bailout will not solve this problem, it just gives the train a few more feet of track before it hits the wall.

See my earlier post, we really have no choice but to reverse "trickle down", create massive works projects that rebuild and upgrade America, employ the currently middle and lower classes, and spread any newly printed money at the grass roots, after work has been done, this will invest the bills with a value based on person hours of labor.

[donlb-2009]

Let us assume that Congress does not act until January 20, 2009. Let us further assume that Obama is elected as the President and that the Democrats get a substantial majority in Congress. If nothing is done regarding the bailout until that time, I feel that the US economy will be in the thick of a depression. Is it worth a 25% unemployment rate?? This is what we are facing, make no mistake about it. Credit has dried up, and employers will not be able to make payroll. Without credit oil companies will not ship oil across the ocean because of fear that they will not be paid. It is now October, and the cold weather is fast approaching us. Are you ready to go without heating oil all you Republicans who value freedom over prosperity. Please remember that money buys freedom, and without prosperity, there is no money, and hence no freedom. Oh well, logic does have its uses after all.

[lochlan-2009]

China called this the "Nuclear-Option"

[ursodumb]

this is way bigger than liberals, fat wall street cats, convervatives, jews, whatever. this is the result of massive amounts of accumulated debt. im reading numbers like 50-60 trillion dollars depending on who you ask. if they cant get funded on any debt issue then they cant retire debt. their debt doesnt move well anymore. this is the result of about 40 years of massive entitlements and regulations geared towards creating this environment. they just didnt imagine how many people would be feeding at the trough.
if they default on their debt. they are finished. virtually every bank in this country would be without cash overnight. we would be finished. like houston after the hurricane, only this would be permanent. other countries could demand amendments to our constitution, territorial rights, concessions. there are extreme scenarios possible.

[lochlan-2009]

i think the russians, the chinese and the arabs are calling their notes and we have to come up with cash right now.

Posted by URSODUMB

I''ve wondered this myself.

[lochlan-2009]

Here''s the trick. If they pass the bill for a bailout, then the tax payer will pay for the fraud that these banks did, while investors and the rich threw their money at them, thinking only about their greed and profits. The rich don''t pay taxes. Sure they are in the highest tax bracket, but they have write offs for just about everything, and the rest they throw in tax shelters, meaning "main street" gets the bill.
If the bill does not pass, the stock market will pay. Sure "main street" IRA''s etc. will come down, but how much money do the rich have in stocks, and how much money will the wealthy lose after making large profits off the greedy, now unregulated banks, they threw money at. The bailout push by the media and government is an attempt to make sure these people don''t pay for their profits, passing the buck to you and me. Don''t worry main stream media, we understand perfectly how it works. Scare "main street" with jobs, IRA''s and anything else you can use for fear.

[ursodumb]

i dont think this has anything to do with bad mortgages i think our government cant retire existing debt. i think the government is in danger of defaulting on its credit obligations. thered be no such thing as "full faith and credit". i think they and all of the media are softpeddling this. i think the russians, the chinese and the arabs are calling their notes and we have to come up with cash right now. i think paulson is the nervous, sweating accountant telling them exactly what the books require.

[brianbwb-2009]

"The responsible thing to do would be to take the tough medicine now. Yes it will be painful and yes, I''''m mad as HELL about all this...!" Posted by partagus7

It doesn''t have to be painful, it is simply this failed "trickle down" vision that throwing money at those who don''t need it will solve every problem.

The truth is if we use this opportunity to start an "upgrade America" program, re-planning and rebuilding America''s infrastructure and even the big cities, using the most modern, efficient ideas and materials available, we will have full employment for the next 50 years, and permanent employment as long as we constantly renew and upgrade.

The solution does not have to be painful, infact we can solve many problems at one go, the only ones who will lose out are those whose corruption got us into this mess.

It is the full employment that will reconstitute the now decimated middle class, and allow us to grow out of these problems, especially is we exclude from participation businesses that have corrupt practices, and if we put the newly printed money directly into the hands of the people who do the work, not crooked middle men.

Allow me an analogy, any farmer will tell you that putting fertilizer on the top leaves does not help the plant, it must be spread at the roots.

[wkuinkc]

MCCAIN DID NOT TRY TO REGULATE FANNIE/FREDDIE. THESE ARE MORE MCCAIN LIES.

2 years ago, McCain BELATEDLY cosponsored this "dead" bill on regulation. He then did nothing else to revive it or bring it back up for consideration.

S.190 - A bill to address the regulation of secondary mortgage market enterprises, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] (introduced 1/26/2005)
Latest Major Action: 7/28/2005 Senate committee/subcommittee actions. Status: Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. Ordered to be reported with an amendment in the nature of a substitute favorably.
--------------
COSPONSORS(3)
Sen Dole, Elizabeth [NC] - 1/26/2005
Sen Sununu, John E. [NH] - 1/26/2005
...time passes...
7/28/2005 (the date of this bill''s LAST activity)
Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 5/25/2006
--------------
10 MONTHS after anyone touched the bill, McCain blew the dust off it and cosponsored it. He didn''t do anything to push it forward, and the bill never saw any more activity in the Senate.

That seems to demonstrate a serious lack of leadership. It also continues the pattern of McCain stretching the truth, distorting the facts and outright lying to get elected. "Journalists" need to do their jobs here. Explode this MYTH. McCain has not stood for deregulation. The google the name name RICK DAVIS and that should help you find some links.

vvvv CHECK THIS LINK vvvvvvvv
http://4thoffense.com/mc.html

[clestes-2009]

Good job, shrub and I am not being sarcastic. You manged to finish off the neo-con republican experiment.

Let''s hope this lesson stays learned.

[partagus7]

Do they really think we the people just dont get it?

Oh we get it. The markets have been playing foul and need a serious correction. And yes, it will be a painful one. But propping them up with a "bailout" plan will not remove this fact. Instead it will only prolong the inevitble and make it even more expensive and even more painful.

Ahh... but if we are lucky, it will be our kids or grandkids that have to deal with that.

The responsible thing to do would be to take the tough medicine now. Yes it will be painful and yes, I''m mad as HELL about all this. But for the love of our grandkids tell your senators and representatives to vote NO on this plan!

[hbevis]

Don''t be suprised if this happens...
ACTION ALERT: [supposedly] info from DNC SOURCE NOT VERIFIED
Hi all,
Let me share some info with you that I have gotten from excellent sources
within the DNC:
On or about October 5th, Biden will excuse himself from the ticket, citing
health problems, and he will be replaced by Hillary. This is timed to occur
after the VP debate on 10/2.
There have been talks all weekend about how to proceed with this info.
Generally, the feeling is that we should all go ahead and get it out there
to as many blog sites and personal email lists as is possible. I have
already seen a few short blurbs about this - the ''health problem'' cited in
those articles was aneurysm. Probably many of you have heard the same
rumblings.
However, at this point, with this inside info from the DNC, it looks like
this Obama strategy will be a go. Therefore, it seems that the best
strategy is to get out in front of this Obama maneuver, spell it out in
detail, and thereby expose it for the grand manipulation that it is.
So, et''s start mixing this one up and cut the Obamites off at the pass -
send this info out to as many people as you can - post about it on websites
and blogs - etc.

[ubrew12]

vaughnse said: "why not take the bailout money and put it in Indy Mac, which is controlled by FDIC. The $350 billion could be loaned out to banks, etc. at 22 to one to give the market seven trillion dollars of liquidity and the interest income could go to the taxpayers or a liquidity fund."

Sounds reasonable to me. Sounds a heck of a lot better than a ''no strings'' bailout.

[gwjackie]

Isay no pay what so ever for the ceo,s they ***### it up so no to any money at all. The American people need raise hell about this!!!!!!!!!!!

[ubrew12]

glenda743 said: "Instead they should look back to just two years ago to see what a roaring economy we had been enjoying the previous six years with gasoline at $2.19 a gallon and unemployment at 4.6%."

House of Cards. Smoke and mirrors. The wizard behind the curtain. Pick your choice. It was a lie, and you were the target. Why else would we be here, talking about bailing out bankers who traded for years on vapor money?

[gwjackie]

This started with a republican congress they have the ball the biggest part of the time and i will go vote with this in mind to vote every republican out of office i can.

[gwjackie]

Lets let wall-street take of it,s self if they get this bailout it will only make things worse. maby if they have to work this out things may change but one thing for sure come nov 4 we can change a lot of things in congress as we should. the ones that have voted to let this happen should be looking for another job. And just maby they cant get one this would be a good thing.so what ever you do check this out and lets kick them to the curb. if the next bunch that does not look out for the American people maby they should just be lined up and shot no mate what party.They just do not get it the American people have had it they are shi! full and ther will be a civil war if this keeps up!

[glenda743]

Someone needs to ask Barack Hussein Obama to name "JUST ONE"
just one corporation or company or small business who gets higher bills...whether it is a tax bill or a utility bill or a gas bill or any kind of bill....that ever takes the higher bills from their bottom line....Wake up America.....they pass ALL HIGHER COSTS OF DOING BUSINESS ON TO THE CONSUMER... so no matter what you call it...it is still higher prices for the middle America...I just can not believe how dumb the Democrats are....Duh......Just like Fred Thompson said at convention...."if you don''''t plan on buying anything, it won''''t affect you.....This really doesn''''t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out......Wake up America.... Someone in McCain''''s camp needs to stop every lie that comes out of Obama''''s mouth..... Now he''''s scaring those poor old people in Florida to death about their Social Security....Even IF ONE PERSON COULD PRIVATIZE Social Security...which one person CANNOT, if would not affect any person born before 1950.... Someone needs to rebutt all of his lies and tell these old people the truth.......This is really a lousy way to try to get votes...by scaring old people...... Wake up America

[glenda743]

The Democrats should be very careful when they start shouting %u201CBad Economy%u201D and how we need to %u201CChange%u201D%u2026%u2026..

Instead they should look back to just two years ago to see what a roaring economy we had been enjoying the previous six years with gasoline at $2.19 a gallon and unemployment at 4.6%. That%u2019s when the voters then started talking about %u201CChange%u201D and they elected a majority of Democrats in both houses of Congress%u2026. In just these past two short years with the Democrats, gasoline has gone to $4.00 a gallon and unemployment is up to 6.1%.....

The liberal leadership in Congress should not be allowed to continue the devastation of our economic well being%u2026%u2026. Change???? We%u2019ve had about enough Democratic change this country can handle%u2026..

Some people might really believe that one person can do something...whether it be good or bad.... but I''m here to tell you that NOTHING gets passed without approval of Congress and Congress is now controlled by Democrats...Wake up America....this should tell you something...DUH....