Comments on: Wall Street Continues Nosedive

Market Down Almost 450 Points After Fed Rescues AIG With $85B Takeover

[credibility2]

Hey all you Obama delusionals, McCain co-sponsored legislation to reel in some of the funny stuff with Fannie and Freddie, with McCain also predicting some of the sinking we''re experiencing. This wasn''t good enough for the self-involved ultra rich Dems, since it didn''t advance their salaries or reduced hours in their so-called work week. Let''s stop blaming the Repubs for everything. Start watching CNBC or Bloomberg, or read the Financial Times or the Wall Street Journal and get clued in. And, let''s not forget that the Dems, that bastion of entitlements for those who haven''t earned their way or keep, hasn''t encouraged the credit deadbeats to fall for a subprime gimme without taking into consideration that they''re financially inferior to home ownership and haven''t any right to owning a home just because they''re breathing air. These financial neanderthals are a major contributing cause to the housing mess and no one on the Dems side has the spine or guts to call it like it is. This is what comes of years of Dems sitting idly by and allowing everything in our economy to be turned into one giant pot of entitlements to those that haven''t any sense of personal responsibility or accountability because according to the Dems they shouldn''t have too, so long as they have their government greasing their palms.

[markmazza]

How about those "Sound Fundamentals" Republicans?

Look...your people have held the reins of power for the last 8 years with a very heavy handed insistence that nobody has better moral values, financial sense, and the ability to protect the country!

I think it''s time you got off your high horses and show a little humility...it''s in order! At least shut your mouths and listen to the opinions of others a little more. Stop being so cocky and stop blaming everyone but yourself. I suggest you take the advice of one of your own, Phil Gramm, and stop whining ya spoiled American.

If we keep following your ideology, the average person will loose what little they have worked for their entire lives. And we''re all pretty clear about the helping hand we can expect from the party of profit, greed and explotation! Not that other political groups are perfect, but you guys have really overbilled yourselves in the last decade! The arrogance, hyperbole, lies and hubris coming from the Repubican Party the last 8 years has been just stunning!

[Renegade.Rivers]

With the devaluation of the dollar, and the cost rising every day for the essentials, and given that approximately 15% of the work force is or will soon be unemployed the actually taxation will have to be nearer to 70%. So if you make $50,000 a year, you would have about $15,000 dollars to live on. Anyone that cannot see the world of hurt everyone of us will be in, must be wearing blinders. Anyone that believes that the economy is basically sound is an imbecile. Not only are we headed for a depression, but this depression will make the Great Depression look like a walk in the park.

Consider this, in 1929, 85% of the population lived in rural areas and were able to grow a large portion of their own food to survive, while 15% of the population lived in towns and suburbs and many lived only through soup lines. Today the exact opposite is the case. If a depression does come, and most honest economist believe that it is inevitable, there will be mass starvation, and many will not live through it. The United States is on the verge of ruin, much like a car headed for a brick wall with no breaks, and no matter who is elected president, the damage has been done, and the chances that anything can be done are slim to none, and slim just walked out the door. Better buckle your seatbelt, and hang on because the crash is coming, and the odds of you surviving aren''t good.

I apologize for the length but thought you all should know.

[Renegade.Rivers]

To put that is simple terms, almost 70% of the income the United States takes in from all forms of taxes and other incomes is being paid on the debt. Which means that only about 30% of the total income is being spent on the American government and the populous, and given that the military drag of the budget is nearly 10% of the GDP, the American populous is actually seeing only about 20% or 1/5 of the total GDP.

The truth of the matter is that the American people just borrowed 85 billion to bail out AIG, add that to the 25 billion paid to the Fannies and the price tag is nearly 110 billion. If interest is added in, the actually cost will be somewhere near 10 trillion dollars according to some estimates. Add that to the 59 trillion already owed and that puts the debt at about 70 trillion dollars, at over$50,000 for every man, woman, and child now living. If this is added to the 70% of the GDP already being paid on the debt, iit comes to about 80% of the GDP. Take away the 10% spent on the military, and that means that the United States citizens will be getting about 10% usage on the taxes that they pay in.

In other words the US government is teetering on bankruptcy, and their is no clear way out of it, unless taxes are to be raised to at least 50% since the average US worker now pays about 25% of their income on taxes.

Cont

[Renegade.Rivers]

Some believe that with the situations as they are that we have crept beyond the point of return, and that the fear that many are now feeling is not only justified, but real. With everthing as it is, and given the state that the United now finds itself in, I would not be at all surprised to see the stock market take another 4k point drop. That is because there is not any real liquidity to keep it from continuing to fail. If it does, many small and mid-sized business will fail, and if this happens, then bigger businesses will be pulled down with them. Which will mean even more unemployment.

Added to all of this is the fact that as of September 2008, the total U.S. federal debt was approximately $9.7 trillion, or about about $31,700 per ever citizen: i.e. ever man woman and child. Of this amount, the debt held by the public was roughly $5.3 trillion, and in addition, if unfunded Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare, etc. promises are added, this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion. In 2007, the public debt was 36.9 percent of GDP (The gross domestic product or gross domestic income) with a total debt of 65.5 percent of GDP.

Cont

[Renegade.Rivers]

Due to the above mentioned factors, there is no silver lining, and neither is their any hope of a quick and sustainable recovery. In fact, as the economy continues to fail, and the unemployment rate increases due to the uncertainty, more and more failures will become a reality, because people cannot afford to pay their mortgages, and with the value of the dollar declining, the buying power of the consumer is contracting, which means that there will be a a decreased demand for high dollar items, such as new homes, cars, and things such as computers and big screen TVs. The automotive sector is already in deep decline, and new home starts are nil.

What magnifies this problem is that most of the industry that could have once put people to work, and brought the economy slowly out of the siuation we now find ourselves in no longer exist in this country since most have moved off-shore. Today the United States is virtually a service orientated economy, and with out the manufacture base to pick up the slack, and show growth, the service industry will also decline.

Cont

[Renegade.Rivers]

There are more factors that I could list, but I feel that these are the some of the most important. When those seven alone are taken together, we find a very different playing field than was the playing field following 9/11. Add to that the disaster of Katrina, Rita, and Ike, and the cost of rebuilding after them, and it in evident that the economy is not nearly as stable as it was after 9/11. One more consideration that is very important to consider is the confidence in government. After 9/11 the President and Congress enjoyed a very high approval rating. Today the confidence in government has tanked, and after what has happen over the past several weeks, the confidence rating is sure to tank even further.

What we now have is an economy not only teetering due to uncertainty, but an economy that is tanking in every shape and form due to the failure of major institutions that have existed in some cases over 100 years, and were stable enough at one time to weather the depression of 1929.

Cont

[Renegade.Rivers]

Now lets did a little deeper. 3.) In 2001 there was a housing boom, and the construction trades were booming. Today the housing industry is at it lowest rate of new starts since the 1990''s. 4.) In 2001 the United States was enjoying a very positive position with most countries in the world, including Russia. Unfortunately the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and our encroachment into other countries has brought about much disdain from many of those same countries that in 2001 were sympathetic to America''s plight, most important among those being Russia. 5.) In 2001 the financial base in the United States was strong, and most of the major banking institutions were very stable. 6.) Even with all of the turmoil that the United States was facing, the cost of services and goods remained fairly stable. Today the cost of goods and services has increased anywhere from 5-20% depending on what goods and services are being considered. 7.) In 2001 credit was still readily available, and easy to procure. Ihat is not the case today, in fact, some businesses and people with good credit are finding it very hard to get new credit.

Cont.

[Keypinitreel1]

Surprise Surprise...

8 Years of tax cuts for the rich... and non regulation of the markets.

and look what we got. Look at all these jobs...

Way to go Republicans....Thanks a lot... what would we do without you...

[Renegade.Rivers]

Well most of you know i don''t post a lot but when I do, its usually always spot on, and I am amazed how many people taken information from my post and quoted it. I predicted the housing failure long before it became visible, and I predicted the stock market fall to 10k when it was over 14k. I say none of this to tot my horn, but only to point out that I am well informed, and do a lot of research, not to mention I know people who are in a lot of different fields who are willing to share information with me.

I know everyone would like to think that we almost to the bottom of the sink hole, but unfortunately I do not believe that is the case. I would like to point out why I believe this, and what is different about this situation and the situation that took place after 9/11 in 2001. The first two are pretty evident, 1.) the price for energy at that time was much lower than it is now. I speak not only of the cost of oil, but also of utilities. Over the past two years the price of electricity has risen almost 50% as most of your electric bills will attest to, and also at the time in 2001, the price of a barrel of oil was about $23.00 a barrel, today it is about $95.00 a barrel. 2.) in 2001 the dollar was equal to or worth a bit more than the Euro, today it only worth 65-70% of the Euro, which means the buying power of the dollar has lost about 25-30% of its value, and at this point it continues to fall. As I said these two were pretty evident.

Cont.

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by JDSalinger12

A dollar denominated account is just as vulnerable, because as the dollar drops, the value of the account drops, no matter where it is stashed. Also the movement towards closing offshore tax loopholes is growing, so as a tax haven offshore accounts are not as attractive as they once were.

A better idea is to seek a more stable currency with more sound financial underpinnings, like the Euro, and convert the US dollar assets into a Euro denominated account.

It is clear that dealing with the logical consequence of corruption, fake war, and "trickle down" will necessitate measures that will further devalue the dollar, and failure will make the devaluation uncontrollable, and there is nothing that offshore accounts can do to mitigate this.

[jdsalinger12]

Another piece of bad news and more is coming with WAMU. Everyone should recognize this as the time to protect your money. I personally use offshore bank accounts and they have helped me with asset protection and diversification. If you would like to learn more, you are welcome to visit my site.

Regards,
Frank Miller
http://www.theoffshorebankaccount.com

[cattiej]

Re brianbwb comments: I think you make some great points. Some of the comments on this very important issue for Americans is nothing to joke about, folks. I know you have a right to say what you want, within reason, but let all of us Americans try to pull together. What do we have to lose, but our country, our jobs, our homes, our commen sense.We all must "look outside the box". We are just a little part of this big ball called Earth. When you get to be in your 70''s like we are, you can''t help but have respect for God and Country. Our country is in deep trouble. We need to look within ourselves and help each other, not try and be a comedian or a smart mouth.

[brianbwb-2009]

"Do you get ALL of your news from message boards?"
Posted by easeup

I have many sources of information, it is a prerequisite for my business. I get news from many countries, not just the wire sources, but on the ground information from people in many countries with whom I do business, and am thus exposed to more sides of an issue than most people in the US.

[missingamerica]

Good old Republicans - they have finally figured out a way to cost everybody in the world a lot of money.

What is worse than crooks? Dumb crooks.

[brianbwb-2009]

"Anyone in the stock market field have any comments on how much the Chinese have bought on the stock market today or how much they sold?" Posted by cattieJ

Asians have a "herd mentality" that puts America''s to shame. Right now they are cutting their losses, dumping all their US stock holdings as fast as they can, in such volume that it increases the impact of the fall.

Over here in Asia (I am today in Singapore) the stock markets are tracking the Dow, although not as severely as the Dow itself, because their portfolios are more widely diversified, but you can know that since the Chinese have entered into acceptance of capitalism, they will have an effect on the market, rises and falls will be more dramatic as a result of their participation.

But we asked for this, for more than a half century we tried to bring the Asian giant into capitalism. Now they are awakening, so we must accept that now there are more shrewd players in the game, with more capital than we have.

[aaabee-2009]

I thought China was a moot point to the fact that 1% of America owns 50% of US wealth. That a top-heavy economy always falls...and faster than than a debt-laden one.

[easeup-2009]

Posted by brianbwb at 09:38 PM : Sep 17, 2008

Do you get ALL of your news from message boards?

[aaabee-2009]

Posted by brianbwb at 09:42 PM : Sep 17, 2008

Agitprop. Kewl! :)

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by cattieJ

Your point is understandable, but a bit too late. For one example, try buying an American made television, you won''t find any, because there are no more American firms making them.