Comments on: 1,300 Iraqis Fired For Refusing To Fight

Iraqi Police, Army Members Dismissed After Deserting In Face Of Basra Militias Last Month

[ranger1948]

alphaa10
Well said

[ranger1948]

brianbwb
If they signed up and took whatever oath then i still think they should be shot as traitors. I am hardcore military on this one.

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by ranger1948

Ranger, not every country''s military takes oaths as those who join the US military do. Most often in countries with such polar economic opposites, soldiers join up for the pay, often the only employment available, (folks in Flint, Michigan can understand this) and an opportunity to join the local military "mafia", so they can take advantage of their military status for personal gain. They mark their registries with their signatures, fingerprints, or both, pick up whatever uniform offered, and start training.

They have no problem engaging in the corruption that is so rampant in such situations, even the occasional murder of someone who resists their "authority", but there is a line they will not cross, to fire wholesale upon their own people, especially on orders of a government that they themselves rightly view as the tool of their enemy invaders.

That is a line I wouldn''t ask, or expect them to cross, as it is also one that I wouldn''t cross.

But I totally agree we do need to hold Bush and his klan personally accountable for this mess, and leave the Iraqis to sort themselves out. They would be less likely to rebel if they knew that the government they are tasked to protect was their own, and not just the Bush klan''s tool.

[termtex01]

"Their leaders promise when they die they will be martyrs and so many virgins will be theirs when they reach their heaven.

Posted by ranger1948 at 04:27 AM : Apr 14, 2008"

What most people don''t know is that, the line supposedly supporting the claim that 72 virgins await martyrs has been identified as a mis-translation.

The word huri was mis-transcriped some time after the 14th century as houri, which is the Arabic for a type of angel (which can be male or female or niether. What huri really means is white grapes (like dates or figs).

Hand-copying has been credited with passing this error down through the centuries. Current scholars, who have gone over ancient Arabic versions of the Koran, say the most literal translation of the line in question promises ''milk, honey, and a silver platter of 72 white grapes'' for the faithful (not martyrs, just faithful).

[ranger1948]

Their leaders promise when they die they will be martyrs and so many virgins will be theirs when they reach their heaven. First off if they can''t satisfy one woman here on earth how do they expect to satisfy 30 or more up there. Second i think it would be really funny if they did meet so many virgins when they get there, all male, all gay and just waiting for them.

[alphaa10-2009]

The USS "Surge" lists perilously nearer the waterline for its unsustainable imbalance of mutally-opposed forces-- a supposed coalition government actually dominated by Shia politics, a Kurdish leader, and a ministry of the interior staffed and run by Shia death squads and elements of the al Sadr army.

Iraq is once again revealed as a political fiction, and now effectively partitioned into Sunni, Kurd and Shia areas. Originally, "Iraq" was created for the administrative convenience of European powers after WWI. Today, it is maintained as a front for imperialist American occupation of an oil-rich country.

But leaving American and other outsiders where they belong-- outside-- what of the "Iraqis" themselves? Surrounded by armed and hostile states, there could not be a more untenable proposition for peace than to continue the pretense of a viable, independent and integrated Iraq.

When Iran finally takes control of the Shia areas is not an issue, but rather, how long Washington will struggle to maintain the fiction that American presence is pledged for the next 100 years. The way out of Iraq is the same way America went in-- to drop the fraudulent notion America somehow could "liberate" Iraq from itself. The argument we must continue with a debacle to avoid a defeat mocks both semantics and truth, itself.

[naucoming4u]

Now there''s 1,300 more disenfranchised Iraqis out in the streets. This will just add more instability to that country.

To paraphrase Colin Powell''s "Pottery Barn" quote...

Bush broke it, and our great grand children''s children will be paying for it.

[pfd572]

marizara: Faith based actions can be very confusing to many of us. Look at what had been happening in Texas and the FLDS. They too are being indoctrinated from birth. Perhaps the blind obedience is natural when it is all you have know since you were born.

[Marie Zarankevich]

Hey! -- I like a good fight as much as anyone, but these kids that are shooting at our guys and gals are being told by some jerk in a dress that God will give them 30 wives and a palace only if they die shooting at an American. -- Their real crime is that they believe that junk! -- Don''t any of them THINK for themselves? -- If they did, they''d know it''s a crock. -- That they are being lied to, by those who claim to care about their souls. -- It''s sick!

[pfd572]

brianbwb: 1) I agree with you about the 1300 soldiers and police. I wonder how many of our soldiers would be able and willing to fire on their own families and neighbors when asked to do so by an invading army. What many Americans have yet to understand, is the for Muslims, their faith is their primary identification when you ask them who they are, where we would say ''Americans'' they will answer ''Muslim''. So we have another possible reason they would not fire. Until we know the facts, understand the culture of Islam and admit that we are an invading army, we should not pass judgment.
2) I see Mr. dumbshun has left the boards without answering questions. I appreciate your information regarding his methods. I will ignore his posts until compelled to address intolerant comments.