Comments on: NBC Deems Iraq To Be In 'Civil War'

Network Says Sectarian Violence Fits Definition Of Civil War; L.A. Times Also Uses Term

[book54552134]

Iraq's factions have been engaged in civil war for over a year. NBC's choice to buck the Bush Administration's consensus regarding whether Iraq is in civil war or not is a mere technicality. They have simply decided that they can no longer be party to this aspect of the Bush Administration's attempts to propagandize this issue especially considering that by admitting this reality at this time will play little in politics, at this time since the recent elections are over.

[tinker3478]

Does NBC seem to be a little bit behind the curve here?

Iraq was never one nation. It was always three nations - Kurdish, Sunni, and Shiite - forced together and held together only by the heavy hand of Saddam Hussein.
Much like the former Yugoslavia was held together only by the iron rule of Tito.
Once Tito was gone, Yugoslavia fell apart - with Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians going their separate ways.
I can see the same happening here
We shouldn't waste one more day trying to hold together something that's already splitting in three, anyway. We might as well bring all our troops home now before they get caught in the crossfire of Iraq's civil war.

[rsoxfan1123]

Time to pull out. Enough lives and money wasted in this Viet Nam like quagmire. Anyone that thinks staying in this mess is a good idea needs to have their head examined.

[ketch65]

It seems to me, nothing is working out for America's strategy to rule in the Middle East.

It seems that if it's someone's destiny to prosper and be succesful at anything it or they will be by the grace of God.

I would have to say, America should ultimately consider its standing with God on this.

I know that its sounds pseudo relgious to mention such things, as God etc, but isn't that the mantra people shout while waving the flag, chanting GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Are they demanding God bless their nation?

Perhaps, America should bless God!

I guess all it took was for Ike Skelton to call it a civil war on Meet the Press Sunday morning and NBC rolled with it

[ketch65]

alphaa10, that was excellent...!!!

[alphaa10-2009]

FARTKNOCKER2 said, "Aren't they all so Brave for giving the uprising a name ... What a buch of bs . Who cares what you call it..."
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Actually, all Americans should, because the term has core political significance in the debate about Iraq, and the legitimacy of American presence there.

From all appearances, the Bush team agrees completely with that assessment, and treats the term "civil war" as though it were ingested polonium 210.

And they should-- a civil war implies the last thread of any US claim to be the power-in-charge in Iraq is no longer viable.

What interests me is why it took so long for NBC to come to terms with reality on the ground. Back in July, the body counted reached a new high, and it was all NBC could do to dance semantically around the term "civil war".

[ketch65]

I guess I was wrong, "ancient" **has been** Babylon is present day Iraq.

Who knows...

[ketch65]

observantX,, nice analogy there,, there was said to be a man named Daniel who foretold of another Rock rolling down crushing the fragile diplomatic ties of the involved nations who will set up their rule in Babylon, which is present day Iraq.

[ketch65]

There is always something a nation or "worldwide population" can do to save itself from obvious catastrophe and destruction.

But as history has shown us, such is usually never the case.

History is doomed and bound to repeat itself over and over and over again.

Much like the cycles of nature, are born again to only die, each season.

Mankind is part of nature, even its intelligence, while viewed as grand, is part of the physical makeup of its nature, which is the governing nature.

Nature will have its way.

[observantx]

There can be no doubt now that civil war in Iraq is now in full swing. For months after the invasion and occupation of Iraq, the prospect of civil war teetered on the edge. That rock was pushed off the edge and onto the slope by the bombing of the mosque at Samara. Before that point, the violence was chiefly insurgents combating US forces with a smattering of Sunni vs. Shiite vendetta thrown in. When the dome of the mosque was shattered, the fragile pretense of Iraqi unity also shattered and crumbled along religious lines and the violence began to escalate with ever increasing ferocity.

Now we have hundreds of tortured bodies lying in the streets and floating in the Euphrates daily. Mass kidnappings by well organized uniformed men take place with increasing frequency. Nearly every Sunni, Shiite, policeman, soldier, man and neighbor is suspect. The %u201Cgovernment%u201D is both powerless to stop it and is participating in it.

And who do we have to thank for this? The same man who is now on his %u201Cdiplomatic offensive%u201D to the Middle East. He and his cronies and handlers placed that rock on the hill. It was only a matter of time before it began to bound down the slope leaving blood and mayhem in its wake.

[ketch65]

***Sure there are...we should get out and spend that money on using alternate resources/fuels.***

Yes you are correct, that is what "WE" should do, but they won't allow it, by controlling the economy, because if "WE" want it that way, they will lose all their vast wealth.

You see, the rules of the land have and are governed by men, families, corporations, that are addicted to money and affluence.

I know you are correct, but they outnumber us, and so do the apathetic and delusional public, who will believe anything they tell them, **they would rather believe a lie, than the truth!**

[ketch65]

oh, my last post wasn't directed to anyone specific, sorry if it looked like that....

ken

[ketch65]

**enough is enough its time to come home**

The general objective of the United States involvement in supporting Saddam and then all the while plotting his doom has always been one of the goals of the current administration that has ruled for the past generations.

It's an endless series of campaigns in the middle-east to secure oil reserves, natural gas reserves//trade routes to insure it's ability to survive during the coming economic collapses when the oil reserves begin to dry up completely.

It's self fulfilling prophecy.

If you can't see we're doomed to hard times, and a total worldwide economic collapse due to our total combined dependence upon oil somethings wrong with your sight.

With the age of oil, came massive economies, and massive population surges, that created massive needs and wants that were further fueled by oil and the oil trade.

There's no way to stop what's been started with the inception of the industrial era that was funded and fueled with a dwindling supply of oil that is not renewable.

The oil will run out and when it does, humanity will be in utter chaos.

The only ones to stand back and watch, will be nomads, and the Amish, and the Islands that are teaming with villages that live as they always have.

I particpated in Desert Shield/Storm and was their for 9 months, made 7 more return trips with my unit out of Seymour Johnson AFB and have nearly 3 years total there, after the war the general public was led to think that everyone came home and stayed home, we rotated people, supplies and aircraft every 90-120 days, we have occupied and or flown over Iraq for nearly 16 years now, there have been more that 220 operation names since Desert Shield and counting, I retired from the military 5 years ago to get away from the constant deployments,enough is enough its time to come home.

[ketch65]

**There's no other way for America to survive in the age of dwindling oil reserves.**

I forgot the most important oil related reserves for the American politician who earns his millions upon millions in his business of fuel trade, is his bank account reserves.

When you have big business coupled with politics, you'll have big business trade, disputes and subsequent wars based upon those principles.

This is the very thing that the authors of the origional philosphy of Democracy said would be the sign of its doom in any place that decided to apply it!

Utopia would flourish, and then collapse!

If the politicians didn't take a vow of poverty to not serve on the basis of gold and silver and of the commonwealth!

[ketch65]

***Can we leave already now?***

The plan was never to leave Iraq to begin with.

There are permanent US military bases being built in Iraq.

I know that's not actually been discussed openly in plain language to the American public, but those plans will be verbalized to the American public//media outlets in carefully staged ground breaking press releases sometime after they figure out how best to address this to the public.

America needs a foothold in the Middle East's OPEC countries since OPEC founded themselves in Austria, with the EU and are dealing almost exclusively in the Euro and not the dollar.

There's no other way for America to survive in the age of dwindling oil reserves.

I know that sounds catastrophic, but as you see, catastrophe is all over the Middle East, since it struck on 9/11.

Catastrophe, carefully planned and orchestrated.

[bluestardad]

get out of Iraq. This is not a threat to America.

[ketch65]

The bland, generalized definition of a civil war is, **a war between factions in the same country**.

That would generally qualify Iraq's current status of constant in-fighting among it's own citizenry spread out to include various religious districts as a civil war.

But for the purpose of politicians to avoid having to be blamed for a civil war, when it forged a "revolution" to replace the top governemtn officials with a recognized group of citizens from the same country it will constantly change the definition to this, **A war between factions of the same country; there are five criteria for international recognition of this status: the contestants must control territory, have a functioning government, enjoy some foreign recognition, have identifiable regular armed forces, and engage in major military operations.**

And as you would probably guess those criteria are only approved usually by the guilty country that incited the civil war to begin with!

But according to the rest of the world, which I would think has a right to voice its own opinion which is not based upon "denial" of facts because it's the guilty party, the first definition would be correct for the present situation in Iraq.