Comments on: Official: 150,000 Iraqis Killed Since 2003

Iraqi Health Minister Says Three Injured For Every Person Killed Since U.S.-Led Invasion

[kwch]

Sure they will work it out but I don't believe it's going to be the shinning demoracy you seem to think it will. Just because you are brainwashed into thinking your way of life is what everybodys wants, does not make it so.

[exusmcsgt]

Rami G. Khouri is an internationally syndicated columnist, the director of the Issam Fares Institute at the American University of Beirut, and editor-at-large of the Beirut-based Daily Star and wrote this today:

"The inconsistent American record on promoting freedom and democracy in the Middle East has left Arab democracy activists in the awkward position of shunning any associations with the United States, because Washington's policies are so widely opposed throughout the region. So the United States finds itself in the doubly awkward position of not being able to promote democracy by using its military for regime changes, and unable to connect with partners in civil society to promote democracy through peaceful means. This, too -- the immobilization of America as a credible promoter of democracy -- is a consequence of Washington's policy in Iraq."


I agree.

[bellal-2009]

so, kchafy, you have no confidence whatsoever in Iraq's future success? Surely, you must think that eventually they will work it out.

[kwch]

Bella after reading your statement "Someday when Iraq is a functioning democracy with America as it's ally we will be proud of the work our military did" I wondered... the tooth fairy still come to your house?

[itchybrain]

I did it for 5 years in uniform, dude. But if I was in their situation, I'd dress like someone's mother and cap people when they weren't looking, too. For those people to put on a uniform would be inviting death to drive a tank through the door. They'd be stupid to fight the U.S. toe to toe and you know it.

To us they're insurgents or guerillas or whatever you want to call them... to themselves, they're freedom fighters. We invaded their country, pal... we didn't liberate anything because they didn't want liberating. Now we're paying the toll... our troops are, anyway, and that's the shame of it. We should have had Bush and Saddam face off with knives and let the last man standing be declared the winner.

[kwch]

Well mr patriot if you would put on a uniform and become an obvious target you are just plain stupid. Our forefathers hid out just the same, ambushed and attacked the British in the sneakiest ways possible. Thats what you do to win, especially when overwhelmingly outnumbered and outgunned. You want to walk around with a sign on your chest that says shoot me, be my guest.

History will tell you over and over that you don't beat a people like that. We could not in Nam, Russia gave up in Afganistan and the day we leave Iraq you will see muslims firing AK47s in the air on the six o'clock news. This war was a mistake from day 1.

How to get out I don't know, we can't just leave but we sure as hell ought to get our guys at least out of the line of fire!

[bellal-2009]

Alpha, wasn't Iraq a mess because of a decade of sanctions. You speak as if though Iraq was this thriving hub of society and commerce. Someday when Iraq is a functioning democracy with America as it's ally we will be proud of the work our military did.

[alphaa10-2009]

Bob_Burd said, "Any idiot can blame Bush ... "
----
As you admit, if even an idiot knows Bush has brought America a disaster, what does that say about the mentality of bunker-hugging GOP bozos, vainly waiting for the cavalry to arrive in Iraq?

"Blame ignorance, poverty, lack of education and most of all Islamic Stone Age religion for perpetrating the tragedy that has evolved in Iraq."
-----
Not so fast-- you apparently know little about Islam or its variants, and to charcterize all Muslims by a segment is like a Muslim speaking of Christianity as the "worship of crosses" and routine barbaric cruelties against Iraqis-- at least some of whom are Christian, also.

Iraqis were at peace when the Bush2 invasion began. So, you want to talk about idiots? Even Bush1 had the sense to avoid leaving a power vacuum in Iraq because he understood it invited the instability we see now, daily.

And now, after Bush2 has become a public spectacle for his discredited policies and outright corruption, you speak of Iraqi faults? Buried in the Bush regime are neocon circles whose Stone Age politics not merely perpetuates Iraq, but helped create it in the first place- all with a deceitful and discredited argument to Americans about "patriotism".

[bellal-2009]

Iraq get it together. You're killing your brothers and sisters. No religion is worth that. Band together in solidarity and defeat the terrorist intruders who bring death and suffering.

[alphaa10-2009]

The 150,000 figure is way beyond anything Bush admits, but even if only a multiple of the widely-respected Lancet study, shows the terrible toll inflicted on civilians.

One poster speculates a high number of the "civilian" dead were armed insurgents, but I suspect he already knows it is impossible to establish that figure. While *some* of the dead probably were insurgents, it is certain the victims include police, army and rescue workers, and a host of nameless civilians in the fullest sense, who never planned to be in the line of fire. To say that some of the 150,000 must have been insurgents is pointless because it is impossible to quantify, and doesn't alter the tragic toll in the slightest.

Compared with 911, or the current toll of US combat dead, the 150,000 figure is a truly horrific carnage that need never have happened had (1) the Iraqi army not been totally disbanded (2) Rumsfeld awakened from his hubris, remembering a Gen. Eric Shinseki who estimated in 2003 several hundred thousand US troops would be required to provide both security and a civilian support infrastructure.

[olebd]

This would have happened whether coalition forces stay there or not. Hell, it would have happened eventually even if we never invaded. The Bush administration has had blinders on since day one.

[sflew2s]

itchybrain, the difference between us and them is that instead of taking off our uniforms and hiding among the civilians like a bunch of cowards, we would all put uniforms on and get in line to defend our nation. I did it for twenty years, how about you?

[bob_burd]

THE MAJORITY OF DEAD IRAQIS WERE KILLED BY OTHER IRAQIS OR ARAB INSURGENTS.

Secular warfare and death squads are to blame for all of the torture deaths and civilian casualties piling up in Iraq now. It is not the fault of the coalition forces that Muslims enjoy killing each other so much in the name of Allah.

Any idiot can blame Bush but many countries are involved in the coalition effort, and Iraqis obviously have more desire to kill each other than to live peacefully with each other. When most of the people revere moronic demagogues like Muqtada al-Sadr, this is what you get. Blame ignorance, poverty, lack of education and most of all Islamic Stone Age religion for perpetrating the tragedy that has evolved in Iraq.

Selah

[itchybrain]

Look at it this way, uspatriot1. A lot of people in the world don't like Bush. Suppose some other country came here to try, under false pretenses, to topple Bush to free us from his unitary executive rule (the Lilliputians, whatever - use your imagination). You and me and *** near everybody else in this country would fight like rabid dogs to repel these "liberators" even if we hated the President. We would all be defending our nation (I refrain from using "homeland" because it sounds so... so... communist).

When not killing each other (targets of opportunity), the Dems and Repubs, our version of Sunni and *****, would be gunning for Lilliputians and their supporters in an effort to repel the invaders.

That's the position we've put the Iraqi's in... they are defending their country and engaging in a civil war at the same time because we took away that which they feared or respected most (Saddam) and installed a puppet government in its place... which is not acceptable to either faction.

You can't tell me you wouldn't do the same thing if you were in their position.

[sflew2s]

Let's not cry too many tears people, these people count the insurgents in with the regular civilian casualties, as we all know, they do not where any uniforms, and the women lament for them on camera even after they were killed while attacking coalition forces. So don't expect me to be too broken up over this number, there are still a bunch more "civilians" carrying AK47s out there that need to meet Allah...

[luvny-2009]

That's very sad but what is even more sad I'm not sure anyone anytime soon can ever get them back to any kind of civil life. No the Dems are not out to just pack up and leave, we all know that can't happen. Hopefully we can think this thru and GET ASSISTANCE something moron Bush didn't get he just thumbed his nose at everyone.

[random_radar]

If there isn't a civil war in Iraq, I hate to see what happens when there is.