Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder if there will ever be any peace in the middle east. The answer is no. Furthermore why in the world are will still giving money to Israel. The last I checked, Israel received more money then any other nation from the US. But, They thumb their noses at us at every turn. Also, The guy who hit that boy with his car should stand trial for attempted murder. Next time I drive through a rough neighborhood I Won't stop if I see scary people and say I was scared for my life and hit a little boy and see if that will fly with the judge. The Jews will never give up any land so the Arabs better just get use to the idea. Next time don't lose the war and cry about it. Finally, Just because Jews lived their 3,000 years ago don't necessarily mean that land will be yours till the end of time. If that was the case, USA need to give the land back to the native Indians or Australia back to the aboriginals, not going to happen. Land and people were meant to be conquered or be conquered.
Such a pity, CBS's 60 Minutes is such a very good show when they stay out of the business of taking blatant one-sided anti-Israel propaganda pieces. If Lesley and the crew had taken the time to read up on the history of the area in question, they would have realized that Jews originally inhabited the houses above the dig since the 1800's. The same Jews that were chased off the land by invading Jordan/Arab Legion troops back in May 1948 during the War of Independence, but I guess there is no reason to go back that far, is there Lesley??
I expect, and expected, more from Lesley. I'm very disappointed in the spin of the entire piece. I fail to understand how a western media outlet such as CBS could and would go out of its way to try to discredit the only western-style democracy in the entire region, even more so after the events of 9/11 and the resulting reactions of joy and jubilation of those very peoples at America's sorrow that Lesley would like us to feel sorry for now. Shame shame.
Actually Ms. Stahl did a good job. And I wish she went deeper. There are reasons why Zionists hate any reporter to bring up their dirty little secrets. Folks should do more research and uncover underbelly of one of the worse mistakes that European Western Civilization has made.
Jesus, enough already with all the voodoo and hoodoo, or what ever they're popping, shooting, or smoking. Christ, it's the year 2011, not -400. When are we going to quit dumping trillions of dollars into this mindless, sickening hole. The U.S. has bigger problems than dealing with these crazy religious ideologues. World War II did not come with a warranty (Oy Veh!). Sorry, we finished our job in 1945.
isreal has and always will belong tothe jewish people because GOD himself has spoken that...it may change hands for a while but it is written in the bible that it will belong to the jewish culture...
The notion that Israel should return to the 1967 "borders" ignore history, common sense, and simple justice.
The 1967 borders were actually a cease-fire line - following 3 major attempts by the Arab states to ignore the original borders and eliminate Israel altogether (in addition to miscellaneous smaller attacks). Why should the Arab states get to launch zero liability wars - if they win Israel's annhiliated, and if they lose they get to try again from the same starting point.
Those 1967 borders excluded most of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, the holiest site in Judaism, from which Jews in general were banned under Arab rule. Under Israeli rule, Muslims not only can freely use but even have control over their locally holiest site (built on the original site of the Temple, BTW), while Muslims are not only not expected to share sovereignty over Mecca but don't so much as allow non-Muslims to set foot in.
Under Israel, the Palestinians can live, work, and build, Israeli Arabs have equal rights to Jews and better than in any Arab state, while no Palestinian body allows Jews to live under them. Reversion to 1967 borders would entail the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Jews, as the Arab states did to their ancestors ( http://www.jimena.org ).
Not to mention that changes to actual established borders have been recognized in many cases - Yugoslavia/Kosova, Eritrea, East Timor, many in Africa and South America. They're even disputing India's sovereignty over Kashmir and the behest of Pakistan and other Muslm states.
Finally, the use of the term Palestinians refugees is ridiculous. Only a tiny minority are actually so. Most left voluntarily, and anyway the modern Palestinian "refugees" are the results of decades of high population growth in other lands (subsidized by UN and other welfare), including intermarriage with other local Arabs.
Furthermore, the Jewish right of return meant immigration to the Jewish homeland, Israel. Only the most Orwellian misuse of language could make out a Palestinian right of return to mean immigration to Israel, not the Palestinian homeland.
Enlighten yourelf and read modern history. Read history of 100 years ago after the British took Palestine from the Ottomans and then gave it to the UN to dispose of in the late 1940s. Israel conducted terrorism against the British. Israel created the Suez Crisis when it attacked Egypt in the mid 1950s to take the Suez canal from Nasser. That act of war obviously sent a message to the Arabs about Isreal's intent for the region. At the UN the borders for Israel & Palestine are defined and Jerusalem was not allocated to anyone but the UN. So much ignorance, that results from political propaganda, distorts the truth and confuses the Israelis and other Westerners of low intellect. Israeli claims are based upon Hebrew writings by Jewish chroniclers in what we know as Old Testament and the Torah. Jesus, Son of God, proclaimed Himself King of the Jews, a claim for which the Jews executed Him. Oh yes, Jews don't accept Jesus as the Son of God nor do they accept what he taught. What do you suppose God thinks about the Jews rejecting and then executing His Son? Perhaps the diaspora was retribution by God for that.
The reason I bothered to look up who you are was *NOT* because I did not have a point. It is just that I started wondering how come you seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be posting so much here every day, day after day.
I do have a point. The point is that there are MANY reasons why Israel needs to exist, and it has the right to defend itself. One of these reasons, is that nobody else's right to exist is ever questioned. No other nation is denied to have at least some presence in the city that is its Holiest spot. Only having a state that respects our religious need can ensure that these needs would be met.
Many times in history all Jews were barred from visiting Jerusalem. We never gave up. Why should we? We always found a way to come back. Just recently, between 1949 to 1967, when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Jerusalem, Jews were not allowed to visit there. Yet, when Israel won the Six Day War, Jerusalem Arabs were allowed to stay, and enjoy the full rights of being Israeli citizens. Whe Domb of th Rock remained in the control of Muslim Waqf, and to this day Jews are restricted from visiting the spot during an unauthorized time. In addition, many "Affirmative Action Laws" favoring Arabs were instituted to offset the disadvantages that were *naturally* created by virtue of them being percieved as a hostile minority. In other words, while some things would inevitably make Arabs into a disadvantaged population, laws were put in place to give them privilliged in other ways.
A tiny nation insists on its *guaranteed* presence in a tiny region of the world. You call names.
Now, what I mentioned above was not even my entire point. However, I am not going to bother explaining the rest here. I do not get paid for being a preacher. If the Honorable Imam is interested to serve G-d by seeking truth he is most welcome to do his own search. He can also learn a lot about that by simply reading over some of his own posts. I would also suggest checking the accuracy of the information you belive to be true.
That fact that you don't have a point doesn't have anything to do with your curiosity as to my name. The reason why you don't have a point because your argument is emotional, illogical, and really doesn't have anything to do with refuting the point that I made. And in this comment you're using the same tactic. You're simply dismissing my argument and stating something totally irrelevant.
My points are these: 1. The world has changed. We realize now more than ever that we are all human. We have a commonality that is scientifically verifiable. There are no people on earth that are better than other people simply because of the accident of their birth. Therefore the Zionist assertion that Jews had a right to that land simply because their ancestors of 2000 years ago were The Chosen People, is ridiculous.
2. The world needs a court system that all the nations must abide by. Why? Because a silly little land dispute like this one can escalate into a world war. We don't fight with knives anymore. We don't want legend to dictate world policy, and we don't want propaganda to dictate world view.
3. Israel does have a right to exist. Why. Because it does. But the point I made is that it was brought into existence by virtue of the law of the jungle... might makes right. That was possible in 1948, but the entire world's sensitivities have changed. The inhumane unfairness to the people who lived there before Europe's Jews flooded into that land and set up a government, must be recognized. And the unfair aspirations of The Zionist Party should be examined in the light of modern anti-racist sensitivities.
4. It would be in the world's best interests for the Torah Scholars sit with The Quran scholars and discover what many Jews have already found out. The Quran is a continuation of The Line Of Abrahamic Scriptures and it is the most current.
5. I am an American. I'm not a Zionist, a Jew, nor am I and Israeli. Therefore, I expect American reporters to ask even tougher questions than Miss Stahl did. She was not doing a history of Zionist/Arab relations. Nor was she trying to shmooz anyone. The points she made were good and valid. The fact that they put the Zionist State under a bad light, was not because of bad reporting. It's because the issues are really that touchy.
6. You don't have a point. You're just ranting and making statements that have nothing to do with the article Miss Stahl wrote, or the posts which I made that you are commenting on. And I understand it. You're a Zionist. All you see is what you want in this conversation. But understand Masha, we have a right to look at the parts of the story that you and your ilk have tried to cover up for 63 years. And we are. And our opinions will be made on scrutinizing all of the facts, not just the Zionist Party Line.
And by the way, I'm not an Arab Imam or anything. I'm just older African American Muslim who has not stated anything in any of my posts that were not true. And anyone who has the inclination to do so all you have to do is just scroll down and read them for your self.
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I expect, and expected, more from Lesley. I'm very disappointed in the spin of the entire piece. I fail to understand how a western media outlet such as CBS could and would go out of its way to try to discredit the only western-style democracy in the entire region, even more so after the events of 9/11 and the resulting reactions of joy and jubilation of those very peoples at America's sorrow that Lesley would like us to feel sorry for now. Shame shame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cL7kUOXVsA
The 1967 borders were actually a cease-fire line - following 3 major attempts by the Arab states to ignore the original borders and eliminate Israel altogether (in addition to miscellaneous smaller attacks). Why should the Arab states get to launch zero liability wars - if they win Israel's annhiliated, and if they lose they get to try again from the same starting point.
Those 1967 borders excluded most of Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, the holiest site in Judaism, from which Jews in general were banned under Arab rule. Under Israeli rule, Muslims not only can freely use but even have control over their locally holiest site (built on the original site of the Temple, BTW), while Muslims are not only not expected to share sovereignty over Mecca but don't so much as allow non-Muslims to set foot in.
Under Israel, the Palestinians can live, work, and build, Israeli Arabs have equal rights to Jews and better than in any Arab state, while no Palestinian body allows Jews to live under them. Reversion to 1967 borders would entail the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Jews, as the Arab states did to their ancestors ( http://www.jimena.org ).
Not to mention that changes to actual established borders have been recognized in many cases - Yugoslavia/Kosova, Eritrea, East Timor, many in Africa and South America. They're even disputing India's sovereignty over Kashmir and the behest of Pakistan and other Muslm states.
Finally, the use of the term Palestinians refugees is ridiculous. Only a tiny minority are actually so. Most left voluntarily, and anyway the modern Palestinian "refugees" are the results of decades of high population growth in other lands (subsidized by UN and other welfare), including intermarriage with other local Arabs.
Furthermore, the Jewish right of return meant immigration to the Jewish homeland, Israel. Only the most Orwellian misuse of language could make out a Palestinian right of return to mean immigration to Israel, not the Palestinian homeland.
The reason I bothered to look up who you are was *NOT* because I did not have a point. It is just that I started wondering how come you seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be posting so much here every day, day after day.
I do have a point. The point is that there are MANY reasons why Israel needs to exist, and it has the right to defend itself. One of these reasons, is that nobody else's right to exist is ever questioned. No other nation is denied to have at least some presence in the city that is its Holiest spot. Only having a state that respects our religious need can ensure that these needs would be met.
Many times in history all Jews were barred from visiting Jerusalem. We never gave up. Why should we? We always found a way to come back. Just recently, between 1949 to 1967, when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Jerusalem, Jews were not allowed to visit there. Yet, when Israel won the Six Day War, Jerusalem Arabs were allowed to stay, and enjoy the full rights of being Israeli citizens. Whe Domb of th Rock remained in the control of Muslim Waqf, and to this day Jews are restricted from visiting the spot during an unauthorized time. In addition, many "Affirmative Action Laws" favoring Arabs were instituted to offset the disadvantages that were *naturally* created by virtue of them being percieved as a hostile minority. In other words, while some things would inevitably make Arabs into a disadvantaged population, laws were put in place to give them privilliged in other ways.
A tiny nation insists on its *guaranteed* presence in a tiny region of the world. You call names.
Now, what I mentioned above was not even my entire point. However, I am not going to bother explaining the rest here. I do not get paid for being a preacher. If the Honorable Imam is interested to serve G-d by seeking truth he is most welcome to do his own search. He can also learn a lot about that by simply reading over some of his own posts. I would also suggest checking the accuracy of the information you belive to be true.
Thank you,
Masha
My points are these:
1. The world has changed. We realize now more than ever that we are all human. We have a commonality that is scientifically verifiable. There are no people on earth that are better than other people simply because of the accident of their birth. Therefore the Zionist assertion that Jews had a right to that land simply because their ancestors of 2000 years ago were The Chosen People, is ridiculous.
2. The world needs a court system that all the nations must abide by. Why? Because a silly little land dispute like this one can escalate into a world war. We don't fight with knives anymore. We don't want legend to dictate world policy, and we don't want propaganda to dictate world view.
3. Israel does have a right to exist. Why. Because it does. But the point I made is that it was brought into existence by virtue of the law of the jungle... might makes right. That was possible in 1948, but the entire world's sensitivities have changed. The inhumane unfairness to the people who lived there before Europe's Jews flooded into that land and set up a government, must be recognized. And the unfair aspirations of The Zionist Party should be examined in the light of modern anti-racist sensitivities.
4. It would be in the world's best interests for the Torah Scholars sit with The Quran scholars and discover what many Jews have already found out. The Quran is a continuation of The Line Of Abrahamic Scriptures and it is the most current.
5. I am an American. I'm not a Zionist, a Jew, nor am I and Israeli. Therefore, I expect American reporters to ask even tougher questions than Miss Stahl did. She was not doing a history of Zionist/Arab relations. Nor was she trying to shmooz anyone. The points she made were good and valid. The fact that they put the Zionist State under a bad light, was not because of bad reporting. It's because the issues are really that touchy.
6. You don't have a point. You're just ranting and making statements that have nothing to do with the article Miss Stahl wrote, or the posts which I made that you are commenting on. And I understand it. You're a Zionist. All you see is what you want in this conversation. But understand Masha, we have a right to look at the parts of the story that you and your ilk have tried to cover up for 63 years. And we are. And our opinions will be made on scrutinizing all of the facts, not just the Zionist Party Line.
And by the way, I'm not an Arab Imam or anything. I'm just older African American Muslim who has not stated anything in any of my posts that were not true. And anyone who has the inclination to do so all you have to do is just scroll down and read them for your self.