The description seems to overlook, in its description of the EP as the "leader", the fact that leads its members to describe, as "disorganized religion at its finest", the Orthodox Church: the 15 autocephalous Orthodox Churches (http://www.oca.org/OCworldindex.asp?SID=2) although the EP is, kind of, a "leader" (http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=15&SID=3). On the other hand, as always in the Orthodox Church, there are squabbles: http://www.ocanews.org/news/Chambesy6.15.09_002.html. The way the description reads and sounds, CBS makes the EP's Patriarch sound like an Orthodox Pope - the schism (over other matters, really) came to a head precisely over Rome's insistence on making its Pope a definitive "leader" over all.
Perhaps Turkey should not join EU. The church in Turkey and even under the Ottoman Empire was treated with respect over 600 years until the Church allowed themselves to be conduits of armed insurrection by France, England, Russia, and US later in the 20th century by supporting Greek and Armenian and other Christian nationalists to revolt. The Empire was sick and dying and nationalism started to take root including the Turkish one. After the Balkan wars and in WWI the Greek, Armenian, Russian and British armies attacked the Empire with wins and losses on both sides. After the Treaty of Sevres in 1919 the British, French, Armenian, Italian, Greeks, and Russian armies committing Genocide against the Turkish peoples in Anatolia invaded the Empire. This was the Turkish War of Independence. When Turkish Muslims fight for their freedom it is called genocide when the Christian Greeks, Armenians (and British, French and Italians) kill Turkish Muslims it is called victory!! Turkey is very tolerant more than any nation to the Christian churches in their country in spite of the church?s history of carrying our missionary work, supplying arms to nationalist movements, and being a safe haven for terrorists from 1890 to 1923. I wonder if mosques in the west trained, harbored, preached, and had caches of guns to support terrorist activities how tolerant would we be in the West? The 9/11 incident makes us think that every mosque ? makes us scared ? is a possible terrorist cell when there has not been one. Yes many Greeks and Armenians lived in Asia Minor for generations along with Turkish tribes just like many Turks lived in Greece for generations. Greeks exterminated the non-Christians in Greece but then who cares they are just Turkish Muslims! However, Greeks, hoping for a Hellenic Empire, invaded Asia Minor (1919-1923) exterminated every Muslim male above the age of 14, and Armenian Republic performed ethnic cleansing of Turks, Turcoman, Kurds, and Arabs in eastern Anatolia to create their Republic. With marketing and media influence and of course being Christian, the west does not crucify the Greeks and Armenians for their genocide against Turks and other Muslims. If Turkey were a Christian country, EU would have no question in admitting her into the Union.
First, no thanks to CBS for reinforcing the misconception that the EP's Patriarch is an Orthodox "Pope". As pointed out, few in the West know anything about Orthodoxy, and all my life I have had to explain that no, we're not just like Catholics - in fact, we differ greatly over rather important matters. We don't have Popes plus the EP's Patriarch is not our "leader" - he is, as the holder of the once-Imperial center's office of Patriarch, given deference by his fellow Patriarchs. As for the oldest church, St. Peter founded the church in Antioch before he went to Rome, and it is the Antiochan Orthodox Church which is older than both Rome's or Constantinople's. (The Catholic Church made a resurgence in Antioch during the Crusades.) Catholics can't claim being older than the Orthodox because the Schism between the two was a split in the same church, and although brewing for other reasons, the final straw was Rome's claim that "First among equals" meant to it that it would rule over all rather than being given mere deference - in what the Orthodox consider a tremendous violation of the "Conciliar tradition".
xanthoula53, well said, they should only be allowed in the EU if they treat Christians with respect and allow them decent rights, God Bless Bob Simon, only reporter with his eye's open.
The Turkish government (Muslim) denies the Orthodox Church, who has been in Constantinople (now Istambul) for 17 centuries, almost all rights. Along with closing the Halki Seminary,(which was first opened in 1844 and closed by the Turkish government in 1971), the Turkish Government has confiscated (usually secretly) 75 % of the Ecumenical Patriarchate?s properties, including homes, apartment buildings, schools, land, churches, monasteries, and even an orphanage run by the Greek church as well as cemeteries. Yet, here in New York, there has been much controversy over the right of Muslims to build a Mosque very close to Ground Zero. Those who are against the Mosque being built so close to Ground Zero are called intolerant. The Mayor of New York says allowing the mosque to be built at that site shows "openess, acceptance, and religious freedom." Presidents Clinton and Obama as well as the European Union have encouraged the Turkish government to reopen the Halki Seminary. The requests fall on deaf ears. Those who call for the Mosque in New York to be built in a different location are called "intolerant" and the noise is deafening. It is simply too ironic.
60 Minutes misses the boat once again and places its political slant as it sees fit. As posted by jnosal2 the Roman Catholic church is the oldest Christan Church on this plant. But what really infuriates me is the audacity of Bob Simon with his statement to Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, saying in part as follows; "you are from Greece, why don't you go back to where you came from"? What reaction would you receive if Bob Simon said this during an interview with a disgruntled Black Man in this country. Why don't you go back to where you came from. I think maybe Bob Simon should follow his own lead.
Besides, look how we Americans treat Muslims. Not that good. Also, look at France who forces Muslim women to remove their traditional headdresses. We need to look past the hipocrisy and realize that we all must practice what we preach.
Concert123 - your statements are extremely mis-informed. Muslims are granted all the same rights as others in the United States. Christians are treated terribly by the Turkish government. This is why so many hundreds of thousands of Christians have left Turkey in the last century. It is not disputed that Christians face many forms of discrimination in Turkey - they can't even run a seminary, meaning no new priests. Why would you seek to justify such treatment? It is a terrible thing, and should be condemned by everyone.
This is absolutely not true!! I just got back from Istanbul Turkey and the people there are so nice and accepting of other religions. I cannot believe 60 minutes would discredit the people of Turkey like this. I am a Christian and practice Christianity strictly. The people of Turkey accepted us and our religion without reservation. Honestly, I think this is the Jewish lobby at it again and they are coercing the media to cover such useless stories to discredit Turkey b/c they have the guts to stand up to Israel and its atrocities. Any country that opposes Israel will get such a response. If fact, I have been to Israel too and they imposed Judaism on everyone and actually are slowly ethnic cleansing the Palestinians most of whom are Christians. Turkey is a wonderful country and more open to other religions than most other countries. Go see for yourself like I did.
Concert123 - Are you saying that the Patriarch lied when he said that no seminaries to train priest are allowed? This is a bizarre statement on your part. It is indisputable that the Turkish government strictly limits Christian works in their country. This doesn't mean the people are not nice. It means that the government policies are designed to limit Christian practices. Nor are the majority of Palistinians Christians - they are over-whelmingly Muslims. You seriously need to do a little studying if you want people to take you seriously.
Well, the pope is not the "direct descendant" of Jesus Christ. He is the vicar of Christ on earth, something quite different. But it is not true that the "whole church" started in Turkey, as was reported in this story. Anyone familiar with the New Testament and early Church history will know that apostles founded churches in many places. Yes, in Turkey. But Peter and Paul went and founded churches in Rome. This is indisputable - as Paul's letter to the Romans makes clear. It is odd that that reporters and producers would not be familiar with things like the catacombs in Rome, which are all older than the chapels they visited in Turkey. However, the story was very interesting, and shows how Muslims will treat the rest of us once we hand over our countries to them.
The oldest Christian religion in the world is the Roman Catholic. Our leader is a direct descendant of Jesus Christ and he leads much more than 300 million. Really, get you report straight.
The oldes chrisian religion is not the Roman catholic church. Please read your history befor you leave messeges that are untrue. The Roman Catholic church and the Easten Orthodox church where ONE until the seperation of Rom about 1300 years ago
This is untrue. I am Orthodox, and we are descended from the church of Antioch, where the disciples were 1st called "Christians" (Acts of the Apostles.) The liturgies in use by the Roman Catholics are adapted from those of the Orthodox Church. Both existed for some time concurrently, until the great schism, when the Patriarch of Constantinople (now Istanbul) excommunicated the Bishop of Rome (The Pope). The Orthodox faith is the true "Catholic" church. Rome and its followers have been following heresy for centuries now.
This is not an accurate statement. I am Orthodox,converted from Roman Catholicism, and the church comes from that territory, where the disciples were first called "Christians" according to the Acts of The Apostles. Many of the liturgies of the Roman church were extracted from the Orthodox liturgies as compiled by St John Chrysostom. East and West coexisted until the great schism, when the Patriarch of Constantinople excommunicated the Pope. The Patriarch considered the Pope as "one Bishop among equals" not as a "head of the Church." I believe the Orthodox Church is the "true" Catholic church. Rome has been preaching and practicing heresy for centuries now.
jnosal2,
I'd like to share a brief story. My family and I are Greek Orthodox Christians. When it was time for my son to go to high school, he elected to go to a nearby Catholic High School instead of the local public high school. When we registered my son for his various classes, I explained to the nun who was sitting at the "Religion Dept." desk that we were not Catholics and asked her about the curriculum for that subject. She asked my son what religion he was and when he said Greek Orthodox she looked at him and said , "You should be very proud to be an Orthodox Christian because that was the beginning of Christianity. In fact, she told us that when she taught at another Catholic school which is very close to the church that we go to, she would bring her class to our church during the week because of the fact that Orthodoxy was the beginning of Christianity.
By the way, though I know it is said that the Pope has Apostolic Succession to the Apostle Peter (As the Patriarch has Apostolic Succession to St. Andrew), any though of his being a "direct descendent" of Jesus is purely apocryphal.
jnosal2, YOU get your report straight: it is the ORTHODOX CHURCH which is the oldest Christian religion in the world. The Orthodox Church is a direct continuation of the original One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which was separated into East and West. In 1054 A.D., the Western Church (headed by the Archbishop of Rome (also called Pope) split from the Eastern Church (headed by the Archbishops (or Patriarchs) of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Antioch. The Western Church eventually became known as the Roman Catholic Church; but, because it chose to split off from the original Church, their line of Apostolic succession essentially ended in 1054. Any good Catholic priest or cardinal or bishop worth his salt knows this. After all, the Pope himself knows this.
There was only one original Christian Church, but through a schizim, the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches formed. So neither one is older than the other. The Pope is not a direct descendant of Jesus Christ and neighter is the Patriarch.
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I'd like to share a brief story. My family and I are Greek Orthodox Christians. When it was time for my son to go to high school, he elected to go to a nearby Catholic High School instead of the local public high school. When we registered my son for his various classes, I explained to the nun who was sitting at the "Religion Dept." desk that we were not Catholics and asked her about the curriculum for that subject. She asked my son what religion he was and when he said Greek Orthodox she looked at him and said , "You should be very proud to be an Orthodox Christian because that was the beginning of Christianity. In fact, she told us that when she taught at another Catholic school which is very close to the church that we go to, she would bring her class to our church during the week because of the fact that Orthodoxy was the beginning of Christianity.
By the way, though I know it is said that the Pope has Apostolic Succession to the Apostle Peter (As the Patriarch has Apostolic Succession to St. Andrew), any though of his being a "direct descendent" of Jesus is purely apocryphal.