The Patriarch Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of all Orthodox Christians globaly. This means he refers to tens of millions of people arithmetically 10 times more the population of Turks worldwide. Turks during their recent history after the Othoman empire period, try to diminish his role and to place him to the margin. Their goal is ONE. To PREVAIL as nation over the Orthodox Greeks and any nation that underestimate them. They are one of the most evil nations the world ever lived. The funny thing during the last 20 years is that they claim their entrance to the European Union !!! The nation that in their recent history is responsible for at least 3 genocides: Greeks,Kurds,Armenians. Human rights is a diplomatic term for them. THIS is Turkey.
As a Greek Pontian with roots from the Matsouka region (50-60 kls. south of the city of Trapezounta) of present day Turkey, I must say that I am deeply moved by the Patriarch's words of disenchantment with the treatment that receives from the Turkish state. I'm quite certain the many other Greek descendants of Anatolia have similar feelings. History has taught us that the twisting and distortion of historical events sooner or later comes to haunt those that base their arguments on lies and fabrications. There are many examples that support this argument that I do not care to analyze. Unfortunately, all of the Turkish governments the past 100 years use the same propaganda in order to keep the turkish state intact. For example, children in Turkish schools are taught that Greek, Armenian and other christian residents in Turkey committed hedious and brutal acts against islamic persons in the period 1908-1923. The fact that there are many books that prove that things transpired in the exact reverse way. There are many examples of turkish brutality noted in Thea Halo's book ( autobiography of her mother Sano Halo) "Not even my name". More than 353.000 Greek Pontians were disposed of in ethnic cleansing methods only savages can think of and perform. The only way that this can be corrected, if there is a way, is for the turkish state to repend and formally apologize to the christian ethicities that suffered the Neoturkish genocide in the period 1908-1923. If, as some people in Turkey say, they have a democratic society. They can follow the very good example that Helmut Kol set when he formally apologised in the Israeli Knesset for the Nazi genocide against the Jews in world war II, a few years ago. No more fabrications and lies. Greece did not slaughter the muslim population of Greece prior to the population exchange of 1923. One can compare this behavior against that of the Neoturks and there tsetes savage forces that beat, raped, brutallized and killed innocent christian peoples whose only blame was that they lived in a homeland for thousands of years that was unfortunately overtaken by a muslim people that of Mongul descent that never knew the meaning of democracy in past centuries. I hope the millions of democratic people in present day Turkey can reconcile with recent history and correct the mistakes of their leaders the past 100 years.
I live in Turkey and I think Patriarch Bartholomew is right in that the non-Muslim minorities are treated as second class citizens in Turkey. People here oppose members of other religions holding meetings or publishing materials to explain their faith.
The issue is not to inform Americans about the life of Greeks or anyone else in Turkey. Turkey can do whatever she likes. The real problem is that important figures, such as the Patriarch, people that head institutions with IMMENSE cultural and religious history, are rarely given the chance to give their views. Respecting religious freedom, but primarily respecting cultural differences is only humane. It shouldn't be a matter of discussion, but the norm. Like almost every nation in this planet (few should be excluded) the Turkish governments (I am unconditionally excluding the average people) are simply showing a cultural complexity. They simply despise the fact that many great and beautiful things took place in their land from non-Turkish cultures. Their land was a melting pot of cultural "explosions" especially during the Byzantine era. The Turkish are proud and do not want to expose that, but instead are trying to obscure it, demonise it and degrade it slowly and steadily. However, how curious is the fact that the Turkish tourism-heavy weight-industry is earning most of its income in those greek, roman, byzantine ancient areas? How curious is the fact that millions every year fly in Turkey to enjoy its diverse historical beauty? Therefore, they should only respect and elevate and comfort those who represent this magnificent historical and cultural diversity. Simply! Finally, as far as I am aware, The greek officials are taking particular care to comfort unconditionally the tiny (1.2%) Muslim minority in Thrace. They do so due to excessive political correctness and because they want to show that they are nice. Maybe is time that the Turkish officials start thinking about treating not overtly nice but fairly their religious minorities.
I am not a big fan of Patriarch Bartholomew, and I do think he sees himself as an Eastern Pope, nonetheless it is about time that someone comes forward and talk about what it is like in Turkish occupied Constantinople. There are people living in the US who were among those told that that they had 10 minutes to pack and leave their homes, those who saw the riots or were literally pushed to the sea. An Orthodox Christian living under Islam has no right to property, not even their Churches. If a Church falls into disrepair, the Islamic authority decides if it is to be repaired or allowed to fall into ruin. The Orthodox has always been treated as Infidels with few rights or protections, and those that are given are not taken seriously. It is all very well to say that it isn?t true, but the facts are otherwise, and it is about time that the world take notice of the on-going and continuous persecution of Orthodox Christians.
You see here various comments on religious freedom in Greece, about the Patriarch beeing a propaganda figure etc. Greece is probably the EU country with the largest number of mosques and islamic monasteries. Moreover, an entire part of the Greek population which is muslim can opt to be judged by religious judges as opposed to secular ones for a number of legal categories (family law, minor civil law). The religious judge (a kadi), appointed by the state makes a ruling in Ottoman (probably the only state official in the world still using the Ottoman language) which has to be verified by a civil court (the ruling cannot be against the constitution, and cannot violate basic rights - e.g. equality of the sexes etc). In effect Greece is the only country in the western world which gives the option to its citizens to be judged by Sharia law, thus not only providing an equal treatment to its religious minorities, but also going further and giving them more rights than they have anywhere else (making sure of course that human rights and constitutionality are safeguarded). Greece educates thousands of muslim children in Greece with Turkish as their first language. Greek is a second language. Greece makes it particularly easy for the children of the muslim minority not only to get into the university but also to work in state paid jobs. Greece has recently (four years ago) written off the huge debts of muslim monasteries which were threatened to close down (because of these debts). Greece was the country that supports the Turkish accession in the EU more than any other country of the 27 save the UK. When it joined NATO, Greece asked to join together with Turkey. And how have these nice, good willed moves been reciprocated? Cyprus was invaded, and the occupied part was ethnically cleansed. The Greek Cypriot property is being sold in the international market (despite UN many security council resolutions, despite European court decisions). Now turkey maintains an occupation army supposedly protecting the Turkish Cypriots and there is one soldier for every three Turkish Cypriots! The Turkish excuse nowadays is that the Greeks did not vote for the Anan plan. But the Anan plan is the first plan that the Turkish accepted (for obvious reasons) having rejected several UN general secretary proposals and plans first, and continuing to be an occupying force of an EU country! The Greeks of Istanbul, as you read in this article, from around 2M are now around 2-3 thousand. Their homes and property have been robbed, or squatted, or confiscated, and now are being sold by new Turkish owners with no compensation. The Patriarchate which had enormous property rights all over turkey has been robbed, and is continuously being robbed of its property (with the exception of the European Court of Human Rights decision recently - if it was not for the EU court, the local Turkish courts would have and indeed did decide against the patriarchate). The orthodox church in Israel by contrast still retains the largest part of its property. Greek airspace is violated every day, and Turkish airoplanes fly over even inhabited Greek islands. Turkey went nearly to war over two islets that are Greek (the Imia islets). The Turks disputed that they are Greek (now they started disputing the Greekness of other islands...). But we know they are Greek because the Greeks did not get them from the Ottoman empire but from the Italians after the second world war. The treaty between Greece and Italy clearly states that these islets are Greek and that they belonged to Italy in the first place. Turks claim that the Muslim minority in Thrace-Greece are all Turks (whereas some of them are Ethnic Greeks, Pomaks - a bulgarian speaking ethnic pastoral group- and Roma Gypsy) and have for decades done an enormous propaganda - their consulate in Thrace has more money than the Greek foreign ministry!- trying to convince the Muslims that they are all Turks! and the list can go on for pages. The Turkish behaviour is not singling Greece out. All neighbours of Turkey have similar problems and I dont only refer to Armenia (it would be too obvious). Syria, Bulgaria, Iran and Iraq all have their misgivings and are distrustful of Turkey for obvious reasons. Recently there was a big Scandal in Bulgaria about Turkey's efforts to meddle with the Bulgarian election results. And when it comes to minorities, its not just the Christians (Greek, Armenian, Syriac or other). Its the Alevi muslims (more than ten million), the Kurds (more than 10 million), the few remaining Jews (many of them fled in the second world war when a huge tax was imposed on the non muslims to 'keep the country out of war'- Turkey today rates as the most anti-semitic country in Europe). So the hatred comments that you read here against the Patriarch, are not only unfounded, they are either ignorant (I dont think that Turkish citizens know how their country has behaved in the international stage) or suspect.
His words are not true. As a Turkish citizen he has every kind of righs but he wants to the pope of orthodox world. doesnt matter how he lives in Turkey, he just doing propaganda to get some more support to be ecumenic. instead of lie he should start to speak about his real agenda.
"..wants to the pope of orthodox world"- A common assumption commonly made from one who refuses to understand what the Orthodox Christian practices. This is common Turkish propaganda, accusing an innocent of political agendas while then truth is seeking peace. Typical.
IF SO WE SHOULD TREAT MUSLIMS JUST AS THEY TREAT CHRISTIANS IN TURKEY. NO MUSLIM RELIGOUS SCHOOLS AND ONCE IN A WHILE THROW A MILLION OR TWO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM.
The real ruling class in Turkey is not the government but the high bureaucracy. Power belongs to the army generals, secularist media moguls and certain high court justices. They behave as if they are the only first class citizens and the state belongs to them. Also behind every major human rights violations, you can trace the signature of Turkish gladio Ergenekon which is something Turkish people are trying very hard to get rid of.
I also would like to remind you that Mr. Erdogan can't grant fundamental religious rights to practicing Muslims let alone to Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and other minorities. Ruling party AKP narrowly escaped a shutdown by Supreme Court recently(6 to 5 votes) and they are currently taking heat for trying to expand the rights of the minorities.
I would like to wish Honorable Bartholomew a long and blissful live and I hope that the issue will be resolved within his lifetime.
oooooo god !!!!!! how i want to express my thoughts , i wish i had powers ooo god !!!! i want to be cursed the evil action of the erdogan the prime minister of turkey & his satanic people oooo yes i want them so badly to be punished, the hypocrites the satans . patriarch asked the devil when are you going to let open the theological intitution & the devil said when are you going to open the tzamis in greece !!!!! how can you communicate with an animal like this !!!!
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History has taught us that the twisting and distortion of historical events sooner or later comes to haunt those that base their arguments on lies and fabrications. There are many examples that support this argument that I do not care to analyze. Unfortunately, all of the Turkish governments the past 100 years use the same propaganda in order to keep the turkish state intact. For example, children in Turkish schools are taught that Greek, Armenian and other christian residents in Turkey committed hedious and brutal acts against islamic persons in the period 1908-1923. The fact that there are many books that prove that things transpired in the exact reverse way. There are many examples of turkish brutality noted in Thea Halo's book ( autobiography of her mother Sano Halo) "Not even my name". More than 353.000 Greek Pontians were disposed of in ethnic cleansing methods only savages can think of and perform. The only way that this can be corrected, if there is a way, is for the turkish state to repend and formally apologize to the christian ethicities that suffered the Neoturkish genocide in the period 1908-1923. If, as some people in Turkey say, they have a democratic society. They can follow the very good example that Helmut Kol set when he formally apologised in the Israeli Knesset for the Nazi genocide against the Jews in world war II, a few years ago.
No more fabrications and lies. Greece did not slaughter the muslim population of Greece prior to the population exchange of 1923. One can compare this behavior against that of the Neoturks and there tsetes savage forces that beat, raped, brutallized and killed innocent christian peoples whose only blame was that they lived in a homeland for thousands of years that was unfortunately overtaken by a muslim people that of Mongul descent that never knew the meaning of democracy in past centuries. I hope the millions of democratic people in present day Turkey can reconcile with recent history and correct the mistakes of their leaders the past 100 years.
Greece is probably the EU country with the largest number of mosques and islamic monasteries. Moreover, an entire part of the Greek population which is muslim can opt to be judged by religious judges as opposed to secular ones for a number of legal categories (family law, minor civil law). The religious judge (a kadi), appointed by the state makes a ruling in Ottoman (probably the only state official in the world still using the Ottoman language) which has to be verified by a civil court (the ruling cannot be against the constitution, and cannot violate basic rights - e.g. equality of the sexes etc).
In effect Greece is the only country in the western world which gives the option to its citizens to be judged by Sharia law, thus not only providing an equal treatment to its religious minorities, but also going further and giving them more rights than they have anywhere else (making sure of course that human rights and constitutionality are safeguarded).
Greece educates thousands of muslim children in Greece with Turkish as their first language. Greek is a second language.
Greece makes it particularly easy for the children of the muslim minority not only to get into the university but also to work in state paid jobs.
Greece has recently (four years ago) written off the huge debts of muslim monasteries which were threatened to close down (because of these debts).
Greece was the country that supports the Turkish accession in the EU more than any other country of the 27 save the UK.
When it joined NATO, Greece asked to join together with Turkey.
And how have these nice, good willed moves been reciprocated?
Cyprus was invaded, and the occupied part was ethnically cleansed. The Greek Cypriot property is being sold in the international market (despite UN many security council resolutions, despite European court decisions). Now turkey maintains an occupation army supposedly protecting the Turkish Cypriots and there is one soldier for every three Turkish Cypriots! The Turkish excuse nowadays is that the Greeks did not vote for the Anan plan. But the Anan plan is the first plan that the Turkish accepted (for obvious reasons) having rejected several UN general secretary proposals and plans first, and continuing to be an occupying force of an EU country!
The Greeks of Istanbul, as you read in this article, from around 2M are now around 2-3 thousand. Their homes and property have been robbed, or squatted, or confiscated, and now are being sold by new Turkish owners with no compensation.
The Patriarchate which had enormous property rights all over turkey has been robbed, and is continuously being robbed of its property (with the exception of the European Court of Human Rights decision recently - if it was not for the EU court, the local Turkish courts would have and indeed did decide against the patriarchate). The orthodox church in Israel by contrast still retains the largest part of its property.
Greek airspace is violated every day, and Turkish airoplanes fly over even inhabited Greek islands.
Turkey went nearly to war over two islets that are Greek (the Imia islets). The Turks disputed that they are Greek (now they started disputing the Greekness of other islands...). But we know they are Greek because the Greeks did not get them from the Ottoman empire but from the Italians after the second world war. The treaty between Greece and Italy clearly states that these islets are Greek and that they belonged to Italy in the first place.
Turks claim that the Muslim minority in Thrace-Greece are all Turks (whereas some of them are Ethnic Greeks, Pomaks - a bulgarian speaking ethnic pastoral group- and Roma Gypsy) and have for decades done an enormous propaganda - their consulate in Thrace has more money than the Greek foreign ministry!- trying to convince the Muslims that they are all Turks! and the list can go on for pages.
The Turkish behaviour is not singling Greece out. All neighbours of Turkey have similar problems and I dont only refer to Armenia (it would be too obvious). Syria, Bulgaria, Iran and Iraq all have their misgivings and are distrustful of Turkey for obvious reasons. Recently there was a big Scandal in Bulgaria about Turkey's efforts to meddle with the Bulgarian election results. And when it comes to minorities, its not just the Christians (Greek, Armenian, Syriac or other). Its the Alevi muslims (more than ten million), the Kurds (more than 10 million), the few remaining Jews (many of them fled in the second world war when a huge tax was imposed on the non muslims to 'keep the country out of war'- Turkey today rates as the most anti-semitic country in Europe).
So the hatred comments that you read here against the Patriarch, are not only unfounded, they are either ignorant (I dont think that Turkish citizens know how their country has behaved in the international stage) or suspect.
instead of lie he should start to speak about his real agenda.
I also would like to remind you that Mr. Erdogan can't grant fundamental religious rights to practicing Muslims let alone to Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and other minorities. Ruling party AKP narrowly escaped a shutdown by Supreme Court recently(6 to 5 votes) and they are currently taking heat for trying to expand the rights of the minorities.
I would like to wish Honorable Bartholomew a long and blissful live and I hope that the issue will be resolved within his lifetime.