Most business WILL NOT hire older , unemployed p-eople. I am a highly skilled IT person that also is skilled in hardware, and am over 60. I would be glad to be employed, and have submitted countless resumes to many employers. Dont say thyere is NO PEOPLE out there willing to work, as I am sure that I AM NOT the only over 60 , skilled person looking for employment
At 52, I'm in the same boat... I graduated with highest honors from a top-notch engineering university... Extensive experience... Kept my IT skills current... Yet, no one wants to give me a job... Why? Because I'm over 50... I have 15 years before I retire... A long time... But, at 52, I'm consider "too old"...
"Overqualified" means the employer is a criminal who breaks the law against age discrimination and uses the term "overqualified" to circumvent the law.
As an IT worker who stays current with my skills, I have taken many certification exams... most require a 70 to pass... I routinely score in the 90's... guess what, I still get the certification... the exam doesn't come back and say you don't get the certification because you scored too high and are therefore "overqualified"...
Happened to my daughter too. She heard the 'overqualified' excuse for 4 years and now is told that she has been out of the field too long even though she has kept up to date with her training.
The other killer was the H-1B visa that employers used to bring in foreign workers they could pay less. This is the real agenda here. I see former construction workers stocking shelves and doing work that was being done by illegals before the government started enforcing immigration laws after looking the other way for a decade or more.
Some of the single guys made themselves agreeable to American women and got citizenship as the spouse of an American. Others just overstayed their visa.
I have to agree with this man on the point of not being able to find anyone who can do the simple basics! Our young 'adults' today CAN'T do them! Do you know that the kids graduating from public school in the US today were NEVER taught cursive writing? What does that say for our college 'educated' graduates of today!! Very few of them have been taught how to do math in their heads and the teaching came from their PARENTS- NOT the school system! 99% of graduates cannot even count change, write a check or balance a check book!
It boils down to the very simplest of details- you cannot teach anyone anything if you give them a machine, that does it all for them, while you are teaching them how to do it for themselves. By allowing kids to use calculators starting in their basic math classes, spell check in English class and the internet in Literature and Science, they will NEVER LEARN anything more than how to "google." They will never learn to think for themselves or problem solve outside the box.
You can blame all those "outsiders" for coming into the US to find jobs and you can blame all the companies out there for hiring them or for shifting jobs overseas, but you can't blame a company for wanting to hire someone who can figure out how to do the job without the use of a calculator or a computer, and understands they can NOT have a cell phone glued to their hand while they are supposed to be working!
As an employer,I feel for the man and understand his pain. Once you find someone who has some basic form of intelligence then you have to fight with them over not being allowed to use a cell phone at work.
Then you haven't looked very hard or very effectively. One of the things I've noticed is that American employers have gotten rather lazy; also greedy. That's part of the reason that we're not #1 any more.
As far as the education level we're producing? I know for a fact that my grandchild was taught cursive. I saw her homework. Doing more complicated math in your head (I'm assuming you mean without paper) is a gift not a necessity. That said, my grandchild wasn't allowed to use a calculator in elementary school either. I could point out that spell check only applies if you have access to a computer and there are plenty of underfunded schools that do not have enough computers to allow their students to do schoolwork on.
What's left of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. requires some knowledge of computers in order to run the machinery. The only job I can think of that doesn't require the ability to use a computer would be hard labor such as digging with a shovel or farming or cutting up meat.
If you, as an employer, want to know why you're failing in business I suggest you go look in a mirror.
You missed the point with the third paragraph. Plenty of people worked hard to study and spent a ton of money for needed degrees. Those people were told TO train their own replacements, amongst other issues. How can you sit there and tell us our workers are lazy? Why not go to any number of technical forums - people there have stated they have years or decades of experience, know how to think analytically, and every other trait you claim workers lack...
I'm sure you're an employer. I bet it's really hard to pop in a video that teaches the worker to say "Do you want fries with that?"
Simple solution... Hire a displaced baby boomer... Someone who graduated from high school before 1980... They learned math before calulators... They can write in cursive... But, I bet if someone who is 50 years old applied, you would not even consider them...
I"m sure he wouldn't, Vinca. I think it's pretty obvious that the overall objective is to convince Americans that they're the inferior work force; undereducated, overpaid, and inferior IQ. It seems it's not enough that we are forced to compete with countries who pay less, provide free college education, and have few environmental protections.
They're killing the goose that lays all their golden eggs and they're too dumb to figure it out.
Why would anyone wish to work, for a company that is willing to recruit, from overseas? We are all in the same boat. It is cost, time, and profit that rules the roost. It is understood, and after years of hard work,I will keep my humble pay check. I will get by. You entrepreneurs can keep up the BS. I thought whining, complaining, and desperation, were monopolized, only by the disadvantaged?
Then hire older workers, which I bet you don't. I would bet that you don't deal with the older worker at all. There are plenty of them that need work, and come from an education system where they actually were educated. Before the GOP decimated our educational system, on purpose, to get us to where we are today. I know my history, I am one of the older people who was actually educated. Furthermore, I'm no technological slouch. I know my way all around the computer as well as the internet, as well as the cutting edge software. No, find another excuse.
I do understand about the cell phone thing. The younger generations don't understand the concept of concentrate on 1 thing.
but, I do not think that America's work force is "lost" and I do think business is "whining" and I don't feel sorry for them. I truly believe that the bigger businesses, I'm not talking about small businesses, can afford training and should. Guess what people in some other countries aren't trained either.
I can believe that a lot of college graduates cannot put a sentence together. I see that all the time just watching the local news anchors here in Toledo. As far as other skills, I am a firm believer of on-the-job training. It's the best training when entering a new arena. Most companies will not bother with that concept anymore. I have 20+ years in the field of customer service and cannot get hired because I don't have an Associates Degree. I never ran across that until the recent Great Recession. In my opinion, it's just most employers cannot be bothered and I do believe the low wages being offered are involved as well. In Toledo you are lucky to find someone that will pay $10 an hour. I made that back in 1980 and it wasn't very much money back then!
So, if you're not retired or near retirement age, what's stopping you from going back to school and getting the Associate degree or a Bachelor's degree?
I'd guess "return on investment" is the reason... $40k for an Associates degree (never mind a Bachelor's degree) is a pretty high cost (though depending on where one lives, etc, the cost could be lower or higher...)
Investing $40k in one's self for jobs that pay $10, which gets one far less in 2012 than it does in 1980 is bizarre, but the truth is that companies want people with higher degrees. Anyone saying it is a mere choice to get a degree to remain employable is being myopic.
My Associate's degree in an accredited school cost somewhere between $10 and $15,000. It got me a job that paid more than $10 an hour. With an accredited school, you can transfer a lot of those hours to a regular Bachelor degree which can result in a starting salary of much more. The key is making sure it's accredited with the state and, if you're targeting a specific field or area, accredited with the organization that issues the accreditation or certifications for that field of work.
It's not easy. It requires some sacrifice. Either you go to school full time while working full time, which is really hard to do or you spread it out a little over an extra year or two. I'm not going to call it a choice. I would prefer to call it a dream that can be made reality if you persevere.
When I was a young woman almost 50 years ago, I worked for a major U.S. company. They had a huge Human Resources Department including an equally large Corporate Training unit. They recruited primarily from within and invested in their loyal employees with appropriate training. Today, employers don't want to hear about Corporate training. So what do they expect? You put in nothing and you get nothing.
During the past 10 years the HR department has gone kaput. Now these companies hire "contract" HR recruiters. At the last job I had, we had two campuses and one HR guy who had to spend 50% time in the suburbs, 50% time in the city. He could handle the task, but it was overwhelming. That's another thing -- hire one person in HR to be the clerk, the interviewer, the manager and that one person will handle all satellite companies.
I appreciate this comment, thankyou. Ah, our modern economy. Thank you diaper dopers. I can verify, with all my self bought training, applications, interviews, jobs had, lost, and had again that employers are not willing to hire someone, and give them the company training that is advantageous to both the employer and the employee, therefore increasing the companies profit and efficiency through loyalty. Employers, companies, and all of us can ***** all we want, but it appears too expensive, for companies to train skilled persons from other job fields. Companies are full of ****. Employers do not wish to take responsibility, and train for the company standards. Alas, appears that it is to expensive, and with higher taxes it is impossible. Nevertheless. It is almost, as if companies are positioning themselves for a valuable excuse, whence it comes time, for layoffs, firings, or bankruptcy filings. It is the new free enterprise, and companies, only require HR spend money recruiting inside a specific skill set. It is the least expensive mode of finding personnel. It sounds like a bunch of BS, if you want good people, why not find good people and retrain persons with valuable skills in fields that are not hiring? The good ol USA has millions of those. Is this idea against the law yet? There is a better way for the company in the interview to find skilled people. We should raise taxes,increase food, welfare, student loan use. The increase intellect generated by all these programs, will eventually give Employers all that is needed that is until inflation hits, then if something goes wrong employers (Union and non Union) can flip the personnel costs of bankruptcy off on the government.
When a company uses the tired old term "we can't find skilled laborers" the translation is, we have cheap labor coming in from India, or we are moving to China soon. Basically it's a warning to the American employees they had better start looking for another job. Hope the old employees aren't stupid enough to stay and train the "new hires".
Not really. Young americans don't have the same work ethic as the overseas counterparts. Mexicans are the BEST workers. They bring a strong work ethic and passion to the job.
If I understand the owner correctly, he couldn't get people to come to work everyday and on time! If you don't have passion for the job, you won't be there everyday.
There are examples of good and bad workers, of all ethnicities, everywhere...
I agree with your second paragraph -- there needs to be passion involved. And it never hurts to have an employer that treats you more than just a cost, to be defined solely by "the market" (which would enslave its own mother to profit off of if it could)...
The returning veteran's unemployment rate is near 19%. With all of the trained mechanics, machinists and electricians unable to find work, I'm not buying this story either.
Current unemployment for people with a 4-year degree or better is about 3.4% That's generally considered full employment. I am a senior software engineer and make a pretty good buck.
My folks were middle class, so I financed most of my education through student loans. Paying back the loans was tough at first, but after a couple of years, my salary had increased so much that the loan payments were pretty much an afterthought.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you're young, stay in school. Get your degree. Borrow up to the hilt if you need to. It'll be the best investment you will ever make.
And, if you aren't college material, get a tech degree. Again, you will be paid back in spades.
One more thing...the military is not a great place to get an education--at least not the kind of experience that is very usefull in business. But it does provide an excellent opportunity to get a lot of the cost of your education paid for via the GI bill.
Forget those who served, illegal Mexicans get high priority since they hold the vote for this country now. Obama gave them amnesty way back in 2011 behind your backs, openly to "those 30 and under".
We'll see what happens. Years of H1B fraud and extorting of illegals, amongst other factors, have led to wage stagnation or wage depression. No single politician is guilty of that, but condoning the elements of private industry that have engaged in such unethical behavior certainly are.
Private industry created the need for food stamps. They stopped valuing work and then wondered why nobody gave a damn anymore. Unless people wish to be slaves, I don't know...
No doubt unemployment with veteran's is terribly high but that does not mean they are highly skilled mechanics, machinist and electricians; quite the opposite really. They are over deployed, contractors maintain their equipment both in combat theater and at home so real hands on time is minimal. I'm an employer who hires almost exclusively veterans but it takes an awful lot of resources to find ones that can tell you which end of a wrench to hold. Much to my dismay, veterans are a product of today's society of get by with as little effort as possible and be entitled. I saw where someone complained that a business required an Associates Degree; anyone can get an Associates in Life Science, it's not difficult. No one is entitled to anything without effort; regardless of what your president tells you.
If nobody is going to hire because workers can't put together simple sentences, how the hell did we end up with managers approaching 62, or even 42, who have shown they cant? Forget 22... Yet the market deems them of having "higher value"... yeah, right...
Maybe the guy in the video there can explain managers who don't know how to put sentences together and get paid more than the workers who not only have to do such things, but do actual work as well... In previous jobs, I've had to correct higher-ups who can't put simple sentences together... and correct them on issues as well.
I teach at the community college level and the biggest problem(s) I find is that students can't critically think. Lecture them on Chapter A, turnaround the next day and ask them a question from Chapter A and they can't answer the question. Our kids are growing up to be Subway sandwich makers and cashiers. Not enough critical thinkers, not enough who know technology and software.
There is no reason they cannot do some on-the-job training. The range of technology in most job listings are insanely varied and no one has ALL the qualifications...so find someone who has MOST of the qualifications and send them to training, or mentor them. In a few months or less they will be ready.
For example, the median range for a programming job is $90k+. There is no reason how a college grad shouldn't be able to find a job, especially when we're told that we need more workers in x, y, or z fields.
I've seen job ads open up that pay 60% of the "going market rate" for jobs that certainly deserve the going market rate. Then the managers wonder why turnover gets higher - because the pay is asinine for what is demanded.
One of the issues the man said was that workers don't show up on time. The worker needs to get over that little hurdle first. I interpreted his statement to mean -- we had guys on-the-job, but they couldn't come to work on time everyday and they didn't have the passion for the work.
You have the passion for the work and you're good.
That's why -- hate to write this guys -- but Mexicans and south of the border people make the BEST workers.
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Durrr.
Obviously the existence of the electronic press means a lot of really stupid stories get an airing.
TAKE AN EXAMPLE FROM APPLE'S AND GOOGLE'S WAY OF TREATING THEIR EMPLOYEES....NOT KMART OR WALMART....
BEST, GERSHON...
At 60+ you're 'overqualified', even though you might fit the job perfectly.
As an IT worker who stays current with my skills, I have taken many certification exams... most require a 70 to pass... I routinely score in the 90's... guess what, I still get the certification... the exam doesn't come back and say you don't get the certification because you scored too high and are therefore "overqualified"...
The other killer was the H-1B visa that employers used to bring in foreign workers they could pay less. This is the real agenda here. I see former construction workers stocking shelves and doing work that was being done by illegals before the government started enforcing immigration laws after looking the other way for a decade or more.
Some of the single guys made themselves agreeable to American women and got citizenship as the spouse of an American. Others just overstayed their visa.
It boils down to the very simplest of details- you cannot teach anyone anything if you give them a machine, that does it all for them, while you are teaching them how to do it for themselves. By allowing kids to use calculators starting in their basic math classes, spell check in English class and the internet in Literature and Science, they will NEVER LEARN anything more than how to "google." They will never learn to think for themselves or problem solve outside the box.
You can blame all those "outsiders" for coming into the US to find jobs and you can blame all the companies out there for hiring them or for shifting jobs overseas, but you can't blame a company for wanting to hire someone who can figure out how to do the job without the use of a calculator or a computer, and understands they can NOT have a cell phone glued to their hand while they are supposed to be working!
As an employer,I feel for the man and understand his pain. Once you find someone who has some basic form of intelligence then you have to fight with them over not being allowed to use a cell phone at work.
As far as the education level we're producing? I know for a fact that my grandchild was taught cursive. I saw her homework. Doing more complicated math in your head (I'm assuming you mean without paper) is a gift not a necessity. That said, my grandchild wasn't allowed to use a calculator in elementary school either. I could point out that spell check only applies if you have access to a computer and there are plenty of underfunded schools that do not have enough computers to allow their students to do schoolwork on.
What's left of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. requires some knowledge of computers in order to run the machinery. The only job I can think of that doesn't require the ability to use a computer would be hard labor such as digging with a shovel or farming or cutting up meat.
If you, as an employer, want to know why you're failing in business I suggest you go look in a mirror.
I'm sure you're an employer. I bet it's really hard to pop in a video that teaches the worker to say "Do you want fries with that?"
So get some perspective already.
They're killing the goose that lays all their golden eggs and they're too dumb to figure it out.
I know my history, I am one of the older people who was actually educated. Furthermore, I'm no technological slouch. I know my way all around the computer as well as the internet, as well as the cutting edge software.
No, find another excuse.
but, I do not think that America's work force is "lost" and I do think business is "whining" and I don't feel sorry for them. I truly believe that the bigger businesses, I'm not talking about small businesses, can afford training and should. Guess what people in some other countries aren't trained either.
I'd guess "return on investment" is the reason... $40k for an Associates degree (never mind a Bachelor's degree) is a pretty high cost (though depending on where one lives, etc, the cost could be lower or higher...)
Investing $40k in one's self for jobs that pay $10, which gets one far less in 2012 than it does in 1980 is bizarre, but the truth is that companies want people with higher degrees. Anyone saying it is a mere choice to get a degree to remain employable is being myopic.
It's one aspect to why the system is broken...
It's not easy. It requires some sacrifice. Either you go to school full time while working full time, which is really hard to do or you spread it out a little over an extra year or two. I'm not going to call it a choice. I would prefer to call it a dream that can be made reality if you persevere.
There is a better way for the company in the interview to find skilled people. We should raise taxes,increase food, welfare, student loan use.
The increase intellect generated by all these programs, will eventually give Employers all that is needed that is until inflation hits, then if something goes wrong employers (Union and non Union) can flip the personnel costs of bankruptcy off on the government.
All the crying about not being able to train I think is just a ploy to money out of the government to pay for it, so we pay for "our own" training.
If I understand the owner correctly, he couldn't get people to come to work everyday and on time! If you don't have passion for the job, you won't be there everyday.
How blatantly racist can we get, today?
There are examples of good and bad workers, of all ethnicities, everywhere...
I agree with your second paragraph -- there needs to be passion involved. And it never hurts to have an employer that treats you more than just a cost, to be defined solely by "the market" (which would enslave its own mother to profit off of if it could)...
My folks were middle class, so I financed most of my education through student loans. Paying back the loans was tough at first, but after a couple of years, my salary had increased so much that the loan payments were pretty much an afterthought.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you're young, stay in school. Get your degree. Borrow up to the hilt if you need to. It'll be the best investment you will ever make.
And, if you aren't college material, get a tech degree. Again, you will be paid back in spades.
One more thing...the military is not a great place to get an education--at least not the kind of experience that is very usefull in business. But it does provide an excellent opportunity to get a lot of the cost of your education paid for via the GI bill.
We'll see what happens. Years of H1B fraud and extorting of illegals, amongst other factors, have led to wage stagnation or wage depression. No single politician is guilty of that, but condoning the elements of private industry that have engaged in such unethical behavior certainly are.
Private industry created the need for food stamps. They stopped valuing work and then wondered why nobody gave a damn anymore. Unless people wish to be slaves, I don't know...
One hint, 3000% stock profits.
Maybe the guy in the video there can explain managers who don't know how to put sentences together and get paid more than the workers who not only have to do such things, but do actual work as well... In previous jobs, I've had to correct higher-ups who can't put simple sentences together... and correct them on issues as well.
I wonder what excuses they'll dig up next...
Our kids are growing up to be Subway sandwich makers and cashiers. Not enough critical thinkers, not enough who know technology and software.
For example, the median range for a programming job is $90k+. There is no reason how a college grad shouldn't be able to find a job, especially when we're told that we need more workers in x, y, or z fields.
I've seen job ads open up that pay 60% of the "going market rate" for jobs that certainly deserve the going market rate. Then the managers wonder why turnover gets higher - because the pay is asinine for what is demanded.
You have the passion for the work and you're good.
That's why -- hate to write this guys -- but Mexicans and south of the border people make the BEST workers.