Comments on: Pool to Minority Kids: You Can't Swim Here

Suburban Club Accused of Racism For Rescinding Pool Privileges; State to Investigate Actions

[toldyouso29]

I disagree. The answer to why any person of any race is on welfare is an individual as that person's PERSONAL story. For starters, one (meaning YOU or anyone else who falls back on the racism line) would have to know that presently only about 2.3 million people nation wide are on Welfare. This includes all races. You would have to also know that the welfare roles have almost consistently been composed of 70% whites on Welfare but that when saying the % of blacks it is not based on the total actual number of blacks but on that number juxtaposed against how many blacks there are in society.

In other words, you would have to know how stats are skewed or twisted to point out that of the 2.3 million people on welfare--when divided by the total number of blacks or whites that number increases the smaller a group is. In other words--if 2.3 million is divided by 203 million, that % would be a lot smaller than 2.3 million divided by 42 million.

So many of the numbers for health stats etc are meaningless for actual numbers. You would also have to know that 2.3 million of ALL races combined is less than 1% of the population of this country and that 2.3 million is almost 5% of the black population. But since the majority are not black but are white--that number or % is almost meaningless UNLESS a person wants to make it look like more blacks are on welfare (or in jail, or dying of AIDS, or killing people) than another group.

Which all means that 2.3 million on Welfare--even if it was all one race is NOT a lot of people and would still mean that over 39 million blacks are NOT on welfare. It would also mean that even if all the people in the 2.3 million were white--it would only be about 1% of the white population--which would still make that number look really good, right?

The point is--that we ALL engage in racist comments and questions and expect people of color or different ethnicity or age or gender orientation to answer for stuff they could NEVER answer for. YOu just can't. I have members of my family who have been on welfare. The reasons are myriad from social reasons to personal poor choices--but what is simplistic is to :

1. Ask the question of any one
2. Attempt to answer the question as if an entire group died and made you the spokesperson
3. Expect to lump any group into one huge batch and get a simplistic answer like the one you just gave.

It is not possible and it is disrespectful. It is tantamount to people seeing that group as the borg and thinking one person has an answer--and only a very uneducated person would cater to this and allow themselves to be utilized this way.

[rwassel]

Seriously? Did you even read the effing article? They PAID the pool club, who agreed on all the details, including the NUMBER OF KIDS.

Dear God, does anyone even bother to read anymore?!?!?!

[carlyt1]

Unfortunately racism is alive in and well in America. There is a related post at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?page_id=588

[Henri_Rochard]

Then my list of slave states grows, but I maintain my original premise.

[bobnjersey]

[The city kids are not wanted there...
Don't go where you are not wanted..
Having 65 kids for 8 weeks, where they are not used to acting like the regulars was a tough position to put them in. the kids are better off where they are used to... I would think the club members are better off with the kids going back to their own place. ]

are you one of the club members?

sounds like it.

[rwassel]

"it's time to jump off the racism bus, folks. i am a 21 year old upper-middle class white male from western pa and i can honestly say i don't think about race"

Well - that pretty much sums it up right there, chief. You don't HAVE to think about race, because you are white and upper-middle class. Try telling that to the 21 year old poor black kid who didn't get equal access to education because they were born in a poor neighborhood to poor parents who didn't have access to equal education, and THEIR parents weren't allowed to vote in legislators to look after their own interests, and were instead sprayed with fire hoses and had crosses burned in their yards.

I'm a 28 year-old upper middle class male, but I'm sure as heyl not so naive and history-ignorant as to think poverty and race aren't related and inextricably linked to each other. 40 years of "equal rights" doesn't make up for 200 years of slavery and oppression.

[Uncle_Eccoli]

Laying blame is far easier than taking personal responsibility. Life isn't fair for any of us. Education is not solely the responsibility of the educator. Sitting around complaining and feeling sorry for yourself (or others) will never make things better. But I needn't tell you, I'm sure you spend every free hour tutoring underprivileged youth, right?

[rwassel]

And I probably can assume that you are white, huh?

[rwassel]

So you're saying the baby born in a crack-house to a single 14 year-old mother has just as equal access to good education and job opportunities as a baby born to a weathly suburban couple?

You sir, are as naive as they get...

[rwassel]

"Education is not solely the responsibility of the educator."

Oh well then I would assume, since all education is equal, and that the responsbility lies with the student, you would have NO PROBLEM sending your bright, articulate child to an inner-city school with a crumbling infra-structure and underpiad teachers, right?

Now who's shooting themself in the foot.

[tmittelstaed]

I have no doubt that all of the camps were shafted at the same time to provide coverage to get rid of the black camp. I've seen orgs do this before. Years ago my wife worked at the Zoo which had a program where they would hire teens during the summer. The teens were required to sign on with the union. For at least 20 years the Zoo had been simply keeping all of the teens on the books as inactive employees in the winter, and would only take them off if the teen didn't call in the next summer and ask for their summer job. Well the last year my wife worked there she had a bastard of a manager who was totally incompetent and one day the manager ******* her out for no reason - my wife then grieved it through the union greievance process. Management and the union colluded to drag their foot on responding until the end of the summer, their final response was my wife was right and the bastard manager was wrong. Well you guessed it - from that year on, the Zoo fired all temp employees at the end of the summer and the next summer at the beginning of the summer they spent 3 weeks interviewing all temp employees, even ones that were coming back from prior year - this cost them thousands of dollars of employee labor to do this. Of course my wife didn't get rehired although all her friends did. Temp employees also were still required to pay union dues. A few years later the bastard manager was fired from the zoo for incompetence, and within 5 years of the incident the zoo went back to doing it the old way.

The point is that if an org wants to get rid of an undesirable, particularly when the undesirable is in the right, some will spend enormous sums to do it, just to make it look like they aren't singling out someone. Just because the pool got rid of all the other camps means absolutely nothing.

[koyt2]

This may be a case of a private pool and the member not wanting to have all those kids disturb the privacy they paid for. Same thing happened to me at a private pool. Inner city kids came in and just took over the pool when my wife and I were the only ones there. We just packed up and went home. God knows, we could care less whether they were black or white. Being a Native American, I am tan, and color makes no difference to me. However, I do want my privacy.

[toldyouso29]

So... before leaving, did you demand to know why all those black kids were there (or whatever color they were) and did you tell those kids and others that you would make sure they never came back? Did the private pool refund the money of the visiting hordes and tell them not to come back? if so, were you at the pool in question? Therein lies many differences. The proof is always in the TASTING of the pudding--this one tastes like racism and stupidity.

[mattlash3]

Wait a minute is this happening in Philadelphia, PA ?????? I would have thought it was in Alabam or Mississippi. Guess you Yankee elitist Private Club folks think you can do what ever you want with out any regard for the law of the land. I hope the parents of these kids sue you for every racist penny you have.

[stickdog3]

Unfortunately, you are right. Thats how these people put the ball in their court.`A law suit probably would fail in this case, because this is a private club. On the other hand they advertised their intent got a customer and money was paid to utilize their club. They reneged when members saw 65 black kids jumping and splashing in the pool. I haven't read anything yet as to what the white kids do or say if anything. Whatever happened to "City of Brotherly Love" where did that slogan come from? Anyone know?

[pw08-2009]

Blog_Fever, saturn05 and tmittestaed,

What's really funny are the fake BS people like you who act like you're such defenders of another race, when in reality, you have the same feeling as stated above. You are the jokes because all you do is call everyone a rascist when they are expressing what they really feel, in an honest way. You are lying cowards who try to look like heros of the black race and you fool no one.

[Oregon_State_OSU]

After watching the video, That POOL looks pretty Frackin BIG. I was on Swim Team in Junoir High & High School and our pool was not that big. This is nothing but a bunch of STUCK UP HOIDI TOIDI White Trash WHITE people being selfish and racist and keeping black kids out of their Hoidi Toidi > Valley Club in Huntingdon Valley.

They had this all Pre Paid for the summer, 65 kids at about $30.70 to swim all summer one day a week until September. I am White and these Backwards thinking Stupid White people at the Valley Club GROW THE HELL UP its 2009 and this was completely Racist.

[nubiangent09]

For every article you post. I can present, pictures, court records, millions of articles, and stories of how black children where killed, murdered, and disciminated in this country. Wow, an article about a white teacher whose complaining about black kids.

Then you have the nerve to assume all black kids are a like. Bigot

[nubiangent09]

You are implying that those kids are thugs and thuggetts. We are talking kids, man, you are stupid. You were kkk badge proud I bet.

[toldyouso29]

I would not be surprised if some of the comments were exaggerated nor would I be surprised if the kids and families and camp counselors were encouraged to 'remember' exaggerations by salivating lawyers and media spokes people. Both the media and the court system thrive on controversy.

The problem here is people --after all these years not seeing the pitfalls. By ANY member bringing up color, complexion, religion or anything that separated this group out from other groups--they accidentally DEALT the race card. If you deal a card--expect the other side to use it. The problem is--the Director knew this card was dealt because Althea went to him the same day and complained. At that point, the Director had a mercurial situation which he then handled very badly.

As said before, he should have set aside Monday's for this camp, informed the members of the sticky wicket they were in and why (due to inadvertent remarks by some club members) then let it play out--vowing to never invite nonmembers in again without member input.

But he failed to do that--he sought to appease his members but negated the import of a contract and the racial comments. That was a huge mistake and one which sort of underlines that perhaps he was not the right person for this job. Several lapses of judgment--from inviting nonmembers without a vote from those who routinely pay. Failing to adhere to and honor a contractual obligation and the comments he made to the media.

All may have destroyed this club or irrevocably tarnished their reputation. But the club may want to remind members that no matter what their personal feelings, complaints should be addressed solely in private to mgmt and not to other persons at the pool to prevent altercations--they may also be reminded that what they say may impact their club and their rights, way more than what they meant to do. In other words, the reaction and words of a few, and confirmed by the Director will serve more to help a case of racism than anything else that was said--and the timing of the refund will also be a problem.

All of this--because people whine about others playing a race card--but totally negate their own part in allowing such a card to be dealt.

[nubiangent09]

in closing, it's a predominantly rich vs poor world, race is dying, and its presence will continue to diminish in years to come. one of the only things keeping it going is this defensive dependence on the race card; if you walk around looking for racial inequality or injustice ad nauseum, you yourself are the racist.
don't get caught up in the mix of the media's dirty black-white fixation: **** Jesse Jackson, cause it ain't about race now


You're color blind, yet you brought up and Jessie and Al who have not even given any comments publicly about it. Secondly, JJ and Al do not represent all black people, and that I see is also a problem with white people. They have no clue about us and quick to assume that JJ and Al are megafones. Stupid, I tell you.

The fact that you live in PA is enough for me to suggest you are a bigot.

[tmittelstaed]

If a customer in most of the stores in my city had related that to the store manager, the clerk would have been disciplined, no question about it.

[pw08-2009]

Racism exists for ALL races and happens equally around the country and world. You won't move forward if you can't overcome the barriers. If you want to wallow in it, as many black americans have, then you will always be behind everyone else.

[rwassel]

You think racism happens "equally", do you? You think many black americans "wallow in it", huh? Well I have a question: since when does 40 years of "equal" rights make up for 200 years of slavery, oppression, unequal access to education and jobs, and not being able to vote?

[Uncle_Eccoli]

@rwassel
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...
Your comment demonstrates very clearly that you are not moving forward in good faith. Please, enlighten us - just what WOULD "make up for 200 years of slavery, oppression, unequal access to education and jobs, and not being able to vote?" Anything? And while you're at it, why not explain why YOU'RE entitled to it? Are you 200 years old? This is precisely what pw08-2009 is talking about.

[rwassel]

Uncle_Eccoli:

Actually, there are some things that CAN and DO make up for those 200 years...ever hear of affirmative action? And my point is that it is idiotic to think "Hey, sorry about all those years of slavery and oppression, but let's just start over from scratch, okay?" and to claim that now everyone has an equal chance of succeeding, when 200 years of institutionalized racism cannot make that possible. But people such as yourself would rather just forget all those terrible things that took placem, and think that none of them have any effect on the present.

If we ignore history, we are doomed to repeat it.

[toldyouso29]

Slavery by Europeans began in the Americas in the 1500s, for African Americans, in the mid 1600s.

More importantly, "wallowing or not" when racism is institutionalized, then any effort by blacks to escape the 'wallow' will be limited or controlled by whites. This means a black who wants to get off their butt and get an education may find the education options limited (as was the case prior to the CR movement) or out of reach financially. After getting a degree, the same black may find no one will hire him or her regardless of degree or skills--that same black with no job is no different than the black on welfare--both will be in poverty...if residential options are limited--that educated black will live in the ghetto, be subject to the same treatment as other blacks, will be stopped and questioned and treated by cops the same way--etc--it is disingenuous to speak of blacks or any other racial group "wallowing" in their circumstance when others do not face their circumstances and the "circumstances" are such that they are sanctioned and fostered by the society. That is like touting a man who learns to fish eating for a life time--but denying access to the pond, the fishing rod or anything else but worms to the man and claiming it is his fault he can catch no fish.

[Uncle_Eccoli]

Looks like we're going in circles again here, but...
One form of discrimination cannot alleviate another. "Affirmative action" is merely institutionalised racism in the other direction.
Yes, to truly move forward and make any progress EVERYBODY, black and white and in between, will have to let the past be the past and not let it define the future.

[toldyouso29]

I agree, but I am also cognizant that racism flourishes most when the economy is down and opportunities and jobs are limited. Affirmative Action does not apply to any private business UNLESS they accept any money from the government or gov contracts. The reason is, gov funds are made up of tax payer money which means ALL money from all people and people should not have to subsidize or help to benefit an org that discriminates. That being said--the reason that AA exists is that the gov found out that on their own companies would not give minorities (and often women ) a chance no matter what their skills were and something had to be done to ensure access IF a company was making money off the public--so here is the actual rule of AA:

Of 100 jobs, 5 must be set aside and to be provided for blacks and other minorities (including Indian and Asian) and for women, and the disabled and now, the elderly. The other 95 can go to white males--no problem.

The result was a backlash. Companies, angry at being told to let those groups share 5 jobs began to hire the worst candidates possible and to parade them around as AA not working--because here is the other thing about those 5 jobs:

The jobs can only go to a "competent" minority, woman, handicapped or elderly person and a company must exercise due diligence and good faith and PROVE they sought out those groups before giving those 5 jobs away to those groups.

if you think there are public companies where no blacks work--that is untrue--I have worked for several of them. Know why they get away with no blacks? Because no blacks either apply or meet the standards set by the gov to work in my field and so cannot get the jobs. The jobs require certain degrees and years of experience, also, few women are in the mgmt positions in my companies because they too, fail to meet the criteria.

So--is that discrimination? YES--it still is--discrimination is singling anyone out for special treatment (good or bad) based on race, creed, skin color, religion, etc--it is the same thing we do when we allow phones to give directions in Spanish but don't allow for them to give directions in Swedish, Swahili, Chinese, Dutch, German, etc

Some discrimination will exist because we have not found a way to integrate willingly. The real question is--when 95 white males are hired to a company and 5 jobs are withheld for women of any color and for minorities--is that unfair? If so, what is the remedy? In instances where AA has been curtailed, it was found that on their own, companies do not trend toward diversity, which means regardless of education or trying to become better citizens, some groups are deliberately hamstrung and left out of the loop.


When you come up with a better suggestion--let the gov know--just remember--that if you favor solutions which benefit YOU as a majority--those same benefits will disappear when other groups become a minority--can you honestly say you would want to be treated and perceived in the same way blacks are? CAn you honestly say if faced with the same obstacles and prejudices their lot would not eventually be YOUR lot?

Points to think on....

[tmittelstaed]

I would guess that the socio-economic class issue was a lot of the problem as well. But, while rich White Republicans might not need the votes of blacks to get elected - and can thus manage to get away with being openly racist - they definitely need the votes of the poor whites they are exploiting so your not going to see any public admission of snobbery.

[ToolMangler1]

In '62 I was a life guard and swimming instructor at the Local pool. We would average 150 swimmers per day 7 days a week. There was plenty of romm for all. We had 350 for the fourth of July and there was no trouble or fuss. The Pool was shaped like a 'T' with each bar 50 meters long. We had four life guards on the stands at all times. We had no problem seeing everything going on. So safety should have been in question at all. We never had a child drown in the pool in the 20 years I swam there.