Comments on: "Hot Fuel" Costing Consumers Big Bucks?

Some Say Temperature Difference Costs Drivers Billions

[alphaa10-2009]

This story might be dismissed as trivial by the oil industry, but Big Oil certainly hasn't made any moves to refund the extra $ millions $ it is making from motorists.

Oil spokesmen also wave a deceitful, strawman argument in front of our faces, hoping we won't notice. They claim it is absurd to outfit gas stations with cooling equipment. What they are careful NOT to say is there is a much easier way to be fair about the "hot fuel" issue-- simply float the price of gas, based on its temperature.

That is, if gas density has a predictable relation to temperature, the solution is simply to take the temperature of gas in the station holding tank, and compute the price of gas per gallon, accordingly. Almost all gas pumps these days are capable of a variety of computerized operations, including variable temperature input.

Under this proposed arrangement, on hot days, the price per gallon would DROP because gasoline density in the holding tank is lower than for gasoline at the standard 60 degrees. Conversely, on cold days, the price per gallon would RISE, since the holding tank gasoline density would increase beyond the standard set for gasoline at 60F.

[alphaa10-2009]

rsh_rsh comments, "For some reason the online system cannot handle ALT 248 correctly..."
---
This CBS blog, like all blogs, can be tailored to suit the host. In the case of ALT commands, upper ASCII and HTML, CBS let experience become its guide.

For example, CBS quickly learned NOT to allow HTML code when some bloggers began putting their Phillipics in BOLD type. A little of that goes a long, long way, but became only worse when some of these posters also forgot to close their paired commands-- meaning the entire page ended up bold for our viewing pleasure.

[michellem99-2009]

Never heard of her.I am a 52 year old legally blind person who have to live in my means of a fixed income and don't like the sky high prices. I also have a male friend that I care for as we have been together 24 years. I hate crocks. Don't you.I voiced my mind as I not after anyone's job lass/lad. I am one who won't let them pall the wool over my eye.

[sparks224]

Gasoline is a dead end.

We should be discussing the fastest way to switch to something else.

Hot gas, cold gas, who cares, either way your still screwed.

It's like debating the color of the rope you're going to be hanged with.

[l8c6]

MichelleM99, you're not going to get Ann Coulter's job no matter how hard you try.

[michellem99-2009]

Somebody is censoring as I know full it is done to keep us in the dark. Somebody is makintg money off the poor ever the ones who can't drive.

[l8c6]

baldandobese, Wow, you mean gas didn't double over the past couple years because of big oil but instead it was those 10 cent a gallon gas tax hikes?

Right winger fascists in denial are so distorted and delusional. The lies can't be covered anymore, the deception is surfacing like the cadaverous entrails of these creatures missing a segment of human DNA.

[l8c6]

mommajomma...to answer your question, no, the oil companies measure temperatures in cold climates and calculate to their advantage.

[shanev137]

Exxon makes $200 billion net profit every year...make them pay for it.

[michellem99-2009]

Yep. Everybody pays. We am on a fixed income. We try to take care of our things due to the prices. I can understand the truck/lorry drivers need to pass the PETRO prices on. We use mass tranit. I don't buy this as it is just a way of raising prices. Somebody is raking the money in.

[mommajomma-2009]

does the consumer come out ahead in the winter, or when it is below 60 degrees?

[torontorsh]

Sorry but in the last posting the 150C used the degree sign and came out as 150C when it is 15 degrees Celsius. The F temperature is 59 degrees and not 590 degrees for the same reason. For some reason the online system cannot handle ALT 248 correctly..

[torontorsh]

Here in Canada all of the pumps are standardized to 150C or 590F across the country. Its the law, and has been for years, so hot gas is NOT an issue.

Of course we are paying about C$1.03 a liter right now, which is a bit more that you in the U.S. are paying, so even with hot gas you are paying less than we are! Stop complaining!

[C$1.03 is about US$.9715 right now, so a gallon of gas would be about US$3.67 in Canada...]

[Rontimcoe]

If it is loaded hot, it shrinks in the customer's underground storage tanks. The dealer ends up with less liquid fuel than he recieved at the time of delivery. Then it is sold at a condensed (shrunken) form.
If it is delivered really cold, it expands in the ground tanks and the dealer ends up with more product to sell.
Hear in Florida, that never happens.

[Rontimcoe]

This "Hot fuel" issue is true.

I delivered gasoline, jet fuel, and diesel fuel out of Port Everglades in Fort Lauderdale Florida from 1972 through 2000 and alwasys had complaints from the bulk fuel purchasers, about this fact.

If the fuel was delivered hot, it cooled when stored underground and sold in a condensed form. The dealer lost money.
It is real.

This thing about being sold at 60* temperature is not true.
When the port fuel distributer sells the product to the gas station, it is loaded into the transport tanker through a metered pump, at the temperature of the fuel at the time. There is no allowances made for the temperature.

[baldandobese]

My father was a wholesale distributor for Standard Oil Company when I was a child. I grew up pumping gasoline and did it from age 4 to 18. Never in that time have I experienced petroleum product that had come up to air temperature (without burning). Even when stored in above ground tanks or left in the truck for several days, the gasoline was always cooler than the air temperature. This was in California where one might argue it's potentially warmer than where you live. I think that all of the claims made by CBS news and our elected officials are made to sensationalize the issue and outrage consumers. Why? To sell more product and get reelected. Follow the money, and you'll see that it always comes down to that. While you're bemoaning the price of gasoline (which I do as well), please remember that gasoline would be less than $1.00/gallon if it weren't for all of the taxes and fees.

[johnsiebert-2009]

Underground tanks are double-walled and act as a thermos bottle. Put hot fuel in and it stays hot for a long time.

As for the winter temps canceling out the summer temps, I refer you to the August '06 KC Star series. The summer loss to consumers, when offset by the winter gains to consumers, still accounts for a $2.3 billion annual loss to consumers. Dennis Kucinich (OH D) has estimated that the loss to consumers for this summer alone is $1.5 billion.

Hot fuel is real. It costs you real money.

[stew1919]

A major oversight in this story is the fact that the gas is stored underground at gas stations. This prevents the gas from undergoing large temperature changes. It will never be as hot as the air temp. I filled up the other day with an air temp of 88 degrees and the pump was cool in my hand as the gas was going through.
A fresh delivery of gas might be slightly "hotter" since it just came off the tanker truck.

[time2toss]

This sounds like a hotbutton issue, but there are a couple MAJOR questions about this: 1. What about Wintertime? Is gas still traded at 60 degrees, cause the gas may be in the 30's or 40's in our tanks. which leads me to 2. Is gas at 40 degrees less voluminous than at 60 degrees?

This might be much ado about nothing...