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kindrox says:
Ttinsly,

How much is the FEELING of safety worth, versus say, actual safety? I am not sure what European country you are in right now, but I bet you are within 100-1000 meters of a gun right now. Shooting sports are big in Ireland, France, Denmark, Finland, Norway, well just about all of Western Europe. You are just not aware of what is actually around you, so you feel safe. Would you feel less safe to know some of your neighbors had guns?

I feel safe myself, as there has only been one burglary in my neighborhood the last year and no violent crimes. In my city there is the occasional murder but its few and far between. I also have more than a feeling of safety, I have the means to INSURE my safety should the need arise.
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mark-tx says:
The debate about guns misses the point. How do you legislate morality? The simple fact is there were many warning signs about this shooter and all others who have done such things. The fact remains that there are people who will kill even if all firearms are banned. What do you do about them? And by the way, I don't care what weapon a criminal uses, gun, knife, bat, rock, etc.., they are still criminals.
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kindrox says:
Part I/II

USABrit,

I don%u2019t know if I would believe official statistics from England.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=6059

It seems the Brits are massaging the numbers to appear safer. According to the article:
For example, where a series of homes were burgled, they were regularly recorded as one crime. If a burglar hit 15 or 20 flats, only one crime was added to the statistics.

If you look at your 2000 report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary charges Britain's 43 police departments with systemic under-classification of crime %u2013 for example, by recording burglary as "vandalism." The report lays much of the blame on the police's desire to avoid the extra paperwork associated with more serious crimes.

Britain's justice officials have also kept crime totals down by being careful about what to count.

"American homicide rates are based on initial data, but British homicide rates are based on the final disposition." Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. "With such differences in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide rates is a sham," the report concludes.
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bbailey642 says:
For folks that that don't own a gun and want to have all of the guns taken away: post your name and address with a big sign in your town saying "My residence is a gun free zone". Having not even fired a gun since leaving the military nearly 20 years ago, I do own a 5 shot .38 and a shotgun (my arsenal). Neither one has ever been fired and are only handled for periodic cleaning. Both are locked in fireproof safes. The pistol is handy enough for self protection at home where only my wife and I have access and knowledge of location. I'm a Benefactor Member of the NRA and if this makes me a "gun nut" so be it. Do I believe in the Second Amendment as vocalized by the NRA? You bet! Do I believe you need a fully automatic AK-47? NO! Just common sense. That South-Korean fellow bought his weapons over a month before this horrible trajedy occurred. So, he planned his actions well ahead of time (think about the chains for the doors). He was going to do something and chose guns as his weapon of choice. If he didn't have access to them, he would have chosen another means. There probably would have been less casualties, but he would have done something just the same. I say we have thousands of gun laws already, both local and federal. How about if the Brady Center worked at spending their billionaire-contributed dollars on enforcing the already-enacted laws along with the improvement of our existing means of doing so and the hiring of more law enforcement personnel.
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kindrox says:
Part II/II

Another "common practice," according to one retired Scotland Yard senior officer, is "falsifying clear-up rates by gaining false confessions from criminals already in prison." (Britain has far fewer protections against abusive police interrogations than does the United States.) As a result, thousands of crimes in Great Britain have been "solved" by bribing or coercing prisoners to confess to crimes they never committed.

Considering all the data massaging going on over there, I think a better statistic to look at is the overall violence, something harder to sweep under the rug. And in this measurement of crime, crime is UP!
http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page66.asp

As far as the number of police go, can you ever have enough? Aren%u2019t most criminals smart enough to wait until no cops are around to commit crime?
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phoenix1218 says:
"...Sadly there is nothing about this tragedy that is lawful. A foreign national was allowed to purchace a weapon, not legal. He was also allowed to purchase a second gun within a few weeks and clips for those weapons that exceed most state's regulations, not legal..."
Posted by mikealford3 at 06:52 PM : Apr 17, 2007
----------------------------------------
He came to this country when he was 8 years old. He had a greencard. He was legally able to buy, own, and carry a weapon.
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mikealford3 says:
I firmly believe I should be allowed to own my firearms and agree that in order for someone to take them, "they will pry them from my cold dead hands". Having said that, I also agree to tighter gun laws. I agree we need better laws, such that a 23 yr. old Korean cannot just walk into a gun shop and within 20 minutes walk out with a pistol. For me in N.C. to legally obtain a handgun, I must apply for a permit at the local Sherriff's office. They do the background check and if all is good, within a few weeks they issue the permit.

To compare the U.S. to England or any other country is wrong. Fact is if those countries were so wonderful, why do their people come here?
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lady66 says:
You can have tough gun control law all you want but I tell you people will have a way to get them anyway.But real issue come from the heart. and that where you need to look at.
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usbrit-2009 says:
Kindrox

Thanks for the references. The first one is indeed chilling. My folks still live in the UK and they tell me knife violence is at almost epidemic proportions. For some reason a faction of young Britons has always had what we call a "yob" mentality (see soccer violence over the years). The violence level involved tends to increase with time, however, the lack of availablilty of AK-47's and the like lead to more "simple" 1 on 1 fights rather than drive by shootings for example. My belief is that the rise in crime is more due to lack of proper policing than anything else. My home town with a population of over 50,000 has around 5 policeman per shift on duty.
The second refernce is also interesting. Page 40, however, does rather prove my point. There were only 765 homicides total in the UK last year and that number has been dropping for the last 4 years.
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kindrox says:
The United States Supreme Court does not believe the State has an actual obligation to protect you:
"There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered." (Bowers v. DeVito)

What does Jesus think? Many people only know this verse:
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Matthew 5:38-39

But this verse is related to conduct in response to insults. Clearly Jesus would not approve of responding to an insult with violence. But what does Jesus say about more serious threats to our security?

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.%u201D Luke 11:21

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.%u201D Exodus 22:2

"He who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22:36).

"But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:8).

Those who built on the wall, and those who carried burdens loaded themselves so that with one hand they worked at construction, and with the other held a weapon. Every one of the builders had his sword girded at his side as he built (Nehemiah 4:17-18).
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