Comments on: Joe Biden Does Something Heroic

Contributor Lloyd Garver Looks at Public Figures And Personal Responsibility

[navychief8]

dallison7,

Vietnam was not sitting on most of the oil in the world, so leaving that country was not desabalizing to a reqion. Leving Iraq in a state of chaos and vulnerable to Iranian influance, is destabalizing in a huge way.

[dallison7]

I am not debating mistakes made by the government, I am merely stating that just leaving, will not fix the situation.
Posted by NavyChief8


Ask ANY Vietnam vet. This situation cannot be fixed. You don't have to have intel to know that. We need to get our kids out of there. Don't kill another one of them for a false ideal!! Democratic Islam nation... bullsh*t!!

[navychief8]

dallison7,

No I am not reaching over my pay grade, Intel, meaning photos of potential target areas, Vessels deamed critical contacts, these were the intel that I saw in preparation to operations my command carried out. And since I led boarding teamns onto ships, yes, I think I had a need to know as you stated. I am not debating cherry picked intel. I am talking about what was seen at the "tip of the spear". I am not debating mistakes made by the government, I am merely stating that just leaving, will not fix the situation.

[dallison7]

It does not change the fact that we are in a war, if we just leave as many would have it, what then, we will send that region into even greater chaos.
Posted by NavyChief8

That's certainly what they said about Vietnam.

[getcentered]

NavyChief8:

I see, you're a "patriot". You just do what your told. You don't need facts. Your boss tells you what is or isn't true and that's fine by you.

Not me. I want to know that when Americans DIE and Americans KILL it is the last resort.

Your mindset follows in lockstep with a "bully mentality". You feel you're "right". You don't want to think about a world so complex that you could actually have a positive effect.

Besides, how would you feel if you pulled the trigger killing a few Iraqis or insurgents, in a war you don't understand?

You'd want to make up excuses for you being there too. Especially when you don't have a choice about being there or not.

[navychief8]

I am not a "NEOCON". I have no party affiliation. But, I can look at things in an objective manner, If the administration lied, the truth will come out and let the cards fall where they do. It does not change the fact that we are in a war, if we just leave as many would have it, what then, we will send that region into even greater chaos. If we "redeploy" our forces to another country, what is going to stop the insurgents from following us and continuing to attack us, only now in another country. In the words of Collin Powell "If you break it, you buy it" Well, like it or not my fellow Americans, we bought it, so now we have to try and fix it. And just leaving will not be the answer.

[dallison7]

After 9/11 and in the run up to the war, I saw operation intel as a part of my job.
Posted by NavyChief8

I think you're reaching a little over your pay grade there Chief. I was a radioman during the Vietnam conflict with a 'secret' clearance. I seriously doubt that the intel pertaining to the topics of discussion were ever anywhere near your duty station and even if they were you could only have seen them in encrypted form unless you possess a 'Need To Know'. Not many non-coms have that need. Nice try though, Bush needs all the help he can get.

[dallison7]

The neocons continue to harp about 'one third of the democrats voted authorization for the war', although it is so blatantly obvious that they were lied to as well as the American people. It is a sign of bravery for those people to now state that they were misled, but wrong just the same. And, there are still those republicans out there who insist on trying to dispute the fact that the administration lied. How stupid! We are all, at this very moment in time, watching a trial unfold about some of those lies. Hell yes they lied. They lied about 'yellowcake uranium', they lied about WMD, they lied and they lied and they lied their azzes off. Someone is going to jail over this Valerie Plame thing, of course that is unless the chimp pardons them. What a vulgar set of events, the men in charge of our government committing treason by outing a CIA agent!

[Syndicate]

I don't remember the part in the constitution that says we have to get UN aproval. Why should we do anything that organization says. Most countries don't even follow the human rights charter let alone anything else the UN says.

[getcentered]

NavyChief8:

"When was the last time you saw a story about a soldier, sailor, airmen, coastguardsman, or marine doing something good and worthwhile."

To you I would say, what positive stories come out of the media, period. Rarely if at all.

Regarding the war in Iraq and the media, it's hard to be positive about war. Iraqis and us are dying and for reasons that have now been disputed, like the chemical weapons issue there are many reasons Bush and CO. said we should go, but "immanent threat" is what I'm looking for when our president sends us to die in another country.

Immanent threat is NOT what Iraq was to the USA.

So while you might be in the military and looking for reasons to justify the war in Iraq, you are doing so after the fact that the voters of our country have decided that Iraq was and is not worth the deaths of any more Americans and Iraq civilians.

So what animosity you might find in my tone IS directed at The White House, and your Commander in Chief.

Don't you think there were better uses of our military? It's funny to me that because someone is in the military they need to express allegiance to a President that would send our men and women off to die in a war for reasons Americans don't understand.