Comments on: Coach Banned From Joining Student Prayers

Federal Court Rules Kneeling And Head-Bowing Is Endorsement Of Religion, Not Free Speech

[ladyoamerica]

"...for example....you state that it violates his rights of free speech. Based upon that logic, should be allowed to openly critcisize a religion; to his students? "

no, its a student led prayer, he isn''t saying anything in it, he has every right to bow his head and participate though. They are violating his right to pray.

[ago5675]

No one at any time can tell us not to pray. I can stand with my eyes wide open and pray. How many of you have ever been really scared and cried out "God help me" or similar pleadings? Have you never prayed for the safety or healing of a child or loved one? I feel ashamed that our wonderful nation has become so fearful of displaying the one thing that made us great. Our beliefs and prayer are the only things that are keeping us.....

[ladyoamerica]

I don''t pray in public, but no law should prevent me from doing so. Freedom of Religion is a constitutonal right which they are violating by telling this coach he can not bow his head and pray.

[bobpcoll--2008]

...for example....you state that it violates his rights of free speech. Based upon that logic, should be allowed to openly critcisize a religion; to his students?

[bobpcoll--2008]

LadyofAmerica......your response is exactly why we have "civil laws" and a Court system to interpret the Constitution.

[mike71067]

Whatever happened to Freedom of Religion? The United States is going down the toilet.

[ladyoamerica]

"The judges agreed that the East Brunswick Board of Education''s policy barring school staff from joining in student-led prayer was constitutional."

Bullkrap, that directly violates Freedom of Religion! If I was that coach I would sue and take it to the Supreme court! Frak it, I think I am still going to file a protest regardless! This is complete BS. Protect the Muslims, Buddhists and every other religion and non-religion except the Christians! Down-play and try to get laws against Christians right of Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech. They are telling this coach he isn''t allowed to pray! That is complete BS! That VIOLATES the constitutional right of Freedom of Religion!

[bobpcoll--2008]

RJS: Very well stated!

[rjs1955]

The problem in reality is not what the coach did, which exceeds no reasonable persons definition of propriety. The problem is what happens if the courts do not act at this stage of the issue. Some students would feel compelled to participate, or the coach would venture further into more than just leading a prayer, or a student who dod not participate might have a bad game and others would blame their lack of participation for their performance. Most believers in any religion believe that there is a point at which they no longer have a responsibility to obey the law of the land in conflict with their beliefs (and I have my limits, too). The Mormon Church has never expunged their Doctrines and Covenants of the guidelines and rules for allowing plural marriage, or polygymy/polygyny. Why? Because even though they made it illegal in 1890 and 1904, much of their reasoning was based on another part of their Doctrines and Covenants which require them to obey the civil law of the land. Now, should the civil law of the land ever ALLOW plural marriage again..., they are all set up to jump right back into that game in a heartbeat. Do not think for one second that the LDS Church has, in its heart, ever truly repudiated plural marriage, and most coaches are more, not less likely to take all the religious leash that thay can with their religious views.

[mrmazerati]

I agree with Walker1209. It''s a hypertechnicality. Might be legally correct, but it still comes off as mean-spirited.

[darrren12000]

walker1209 - the fact that we can debate whether the official is endorsing religion means that he shouldnt do it. this is a constitutional right, not a hypothetical issue. where constitutional rights are at stake, courts should protect them vigorously. just because you might not view the public officials actions as enmeshed with religion doesnt mean that reasonable minds could differ.

[bobpcoll--2008]

O.K. Darren 12000, In what manner would you interpret or define the "rights" of teachers to support or not support religious belief ( in the public school)?

[walker1209]

I am no religious fanatic, but how pathetic is this? What the heck are these people afraid of? Just because someone has a bowed head or even he/she is praying, that does not mean that a person is advancing any one religion.

Sometimes we can go too far with these things. I support a lot of the causes that groups like the ACLU advance, but some of these people need to get over themselves. Grow up!!!

[mediabrat60]

I often wonder why people get so bent when talking about religion.

[darrren12000]

bobpcoll -- the establishment clause is not "clear" about this matter. but supreme court precedent and a long line of constitutional tradition are clear....

[darrren12000]

Matthew 6:5-13: And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say unto you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.....

[bobpcoll--2008]

The Establishment Claus of the Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, is quite specific about this behavior.

[aldon61]

First, any prayer must be voluntary with no incriminations towards those who may choose not to participate. While it''s true that there are hundreds of "religions" in our country, the vast majority are judeo-christian. Even the islamic religion believes in "the God of Abraham", though they call him Allah. Voluntary prayers should be available to all who wish to give homage to their creator. The coach should rightfully be contrained from initiating any prayer, but should, in my opinion, be allowed to bow his head from a distance. I firmly believe in the separation of church and state, but common sense has got to prevail. Just too much government oversight for my taste. This court blew it big time!

[mrmazerati]

I remember praying in the locker room in school. My prayers were usually a) that I would get lucky Friday night, b) that I wouldn''t flunk calculus and c) that I could get out of practice in time to still go fishing. Usually, I got two out of three. Coach mumbled something about protecting the players, winning for God, etc. etc., but I don''t think his heart was in it. He was more about plays, not prayers. And for most of us, it had the same significance as singing Happy Birthday. Just something you did. Nobody gave a rip if you really prayed or not. And nobody gave a rip if the coach did. This is all a bunch of nonsense from both sides.

[darrren12000]

why do people have to engage in the spectacle of public praying - before a sporting event? ii thought christ deplored the scribes and pharisees for their haughty public praying - and he said to pray in a closet. come on religious folk. the great thing about being a liberal who grew up in a fundamentalst family - i know the scripture. and this ruling should not upset any of you. i always whisper a prayer on my own...nothing wrong with that.