Comments on: Rice: Bush Will Not Give In On Iraq Bill

Secretary Of State Says U.S. Officials Already Have Their Plan For Iraq

[rsoxfan1123]

freedomisnot-I'm taking about the dealy death tolls coming in from Iraq. This was not happening in Iraq. Do some fact checking and see who killed more innocent Iraqis- Saddam Hussein or George bush in his quest for black gold.

[freedomisnot]

freedomisnot-funny how all these bombings and killings didn't start until AFTER we arrived in Iraq.
Posted by rsoxfan1123 at 01:19 PM

We invade Iraq in 1983?? Do some history reading these tactics are not new nor isolated to the war in Iraq. In fact they go back longer that 1983 thats just the first major attack on the US.

[toldyouso21]

Blow up some building.Kill some innocent civilians to make your political point. How long would we tolerate this type of negotiations ? How long have we already ? Should we reward those who kill women and children intensionally to make a political point? Are these tactics acceptable to the world? To the US?
Posted by freedomisnot at 01:15 PM : Apr 30, 2007


Iraq did not attack us...we attacked them and our reasons for all the death and destruction was based on lies--and if we say we did it to free them--freedom is not imposed and we do not volunteer others to die for it--like we have in Iraq. YOu are right about one thing--expect attacks from Iraq from now on--because after causing the deaths of over 650K people on a whim--I suspect that many of the survivors want nothing more than to make us feel their pain.

In fact, I suspect one of their blurbs will be "Lets fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them here--anymore"

[johngress]

Why is everyone looking to 2008 for relief from Bush? Why isn't everyone marching, boycotting and contacting their congressmen to demand impeachment NOW? Why do the Dem. keep stating that there is no actual support in America for impeachment? Posted by toldyouso21 at 01:13 PM : Apr 30, 2007

I'm all for impeachment. If it's good enough for a bl*wjob, it's good enough for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

[tibu987]

Simply put, what gives the U.S. the idea that they have the right to foist democracy on nations that have much different cultures that go back thousands and thousands of years.
It is obvious that the U.S. did not have an intelligence agency that would/should have predicted the failure of an invasion.
But now that that misguided information is known it is time to cut the losses, in lives and money. Smart people know when they are on the losing side of a situation and move to stop their losses.
Enough. Out of Iraq Now.

[toldyouso21]

Clementime, I would love to hear you spew the same venom against the Afghanistan war as you do about Iraq. It's a war, we are fighting and we are dying. Yet, you choose to decide where we die, not that we die. Posted by mudrose at 01:08 PM : Apr 30, 2007

You are mistaken in thinking the majority of Americans are against us dying or fighting a war--most are just against dying for what we consider an unjust and immoral war. The difference between Aghanistan and Iraq (as you well know) is one IS the true front on terror and was home to the org that supposedly launched attacks on us in 2001. Most Americans consider that a legitimate target and a cause well worth fighting for. The problems with Iraq are it was based on lies, had nothing to do with 9/11 and the Taliban and we do not have a plan not to mention that hundreds of thousands of humans have died or been injured in this affair. You are right--Americans want to choose where we die--AND what we die for--and about 70% of us want it to be for things we all can be proud of and support--NOT for things that were a whim in Bush, the neo cons or the PNACs mind. I too, support the actions in Afghanistan, but I NEVER supported the Iraq war. Face it, we stand on the side of morality and legitimacy when we fight back against those who attack us--not make up reasons to attack those who have something we want, but who actually have not done anything to us.

[rsoxfan1123]

freedomisnot-funny how all these bombings and killings didn't start until AFTER we arrived in Iraq.

[freedomisnot]

Most of you sound just like Al-Sadr the wise video game playing cleric come terrorist.
Sit back and watch the carnage in Iraq the day Bush Vetoes the dem bill on withdrawal. The islamist are going to give you a message loud and clear. Be proud of the moral support you are giving to those who sacrifice the blood of women and children to forward their political cause. The way of Mohammad is to negotiate when the enemy is strong regroup and attack anew repeat as needed.
If we withdrew all troops closed all bases and only engaged in diplomatic dialog with the Middle East, how long do you think it would be before the attacks began anew? If some rift in diplomatic dialog reaches and impass, what then? Blow up some building.Kill some innocent civilians to make your political point. How long would we tolerate this type of negotiations ? How long have we already ? Should we reward those who kill women and children intensionally to make a political point? Are these tactics acceptable to the world? To the US?

[toldyouso21]

I worry what will be left of my country after it has been sucked dry by these leaches. I look to 2008 with hope, but wonder, can the damage be undone.
Posted by GmanJ7 at 01:06 PM : Apr 30, 2007


Why is everyone looking to 2008 for relief from Bush? Why isn't everyone marching, boycotting and contacting their congressmen to demand impeachment NOW? Why do the Dem. keep stating that there is no actual support in America for impeachment? It is as if Bush has everyone hypnotized and by stating he is omnipotent we all have bought it and look helplessly on while the wheel keeps turning. Why is it, that the only response Dems see to the veto is to give him what he wants? Why did they not say--veto this and you say good bye to your money? Why does everyone try to appease the masses instead of doing the right thing and d@mn the consequences? No one in America has backbone--and no, Bush does not either--he and Cheney are like one of those creatures from the move "aliens"---grotesque exoskeletons, dripping acid,and when Bush gets close enough and opens his mouth--Cheney pops out and rends flesh with his metallic teeth.

[toldyouso21]

In Orwell's classic Animal Farm the sheep play a key role. Whenever a serious or substantive debate begins, the sheep will begin to chant one of the simplistic slogans they have taught. The point: the role of the mindless masses is to regurgitate the simplistic slogans and sound bite... Posted by clemenhagen1 at 12:37 PM : Apr 30, 2007

Excellent point about Animal Farm--which brings us to so many Americans ranting about the loss of over 3500 American soldiers while totally ignoring several facts:

1. We are such cowards and so depraved that we want another people in another country to be the front and the casualties for a war we decided to start (fight them there, so we don't have to fight them here).

2. We note the loss of American life but rarely discuss the HUGE loss of Iraqi life--that was all caused by our invasion (said to possibly number over 655,000 now)

3. We decry sleep deprivation, extreme temps when done by Nazis, try for war crimes when Korea and Japan use waterboarding, yet say it is not torture when we do it.

Which brings us back to Animal farm and our obvious double standards--" It is true that all animals are created equal, but some are just more equal than others"

[mudrose-2009]

My friend, Mudrose, serves as a perfect illustration. He will rant, throw out the unsubstantiated (i.e. Soros controls the press), and generally prevent any intelligent discourse from occuring on this thread.

Clementime, I would love to hear you spew the same venom against the Afghanistan war as you do about Iraq. It's a war, we are fighting and we are dying. Yet, you choose to decide where we die, not that we die. And yes, Soros does control the press. They are in his back pocket along with Edwards and Obama. MoveOn.org. OSI. Whenever it's not accommodating for the likes of people like you you deflect and call others cronies. Still don't hear a decent, fluid argument as a solution from the likes of any of you. You can have your "honest", discussions. I jsut call them rants.

[condumism]

The Reicht winged Corporate media is as worthless of an example of "free press" as it gets. When is the fascist media gonna report news? I guess these fascist corporate dogs will do everything that they can to keep the neocon hypocrits agenda in the headlines, no matter what it takes. Anything to keep from reporting the failings of the neocon fascist agenda.

[johngress]

Well stated, Jimibear. Unfortuantely, a lot of Americans have become like lemmings, racing one after another over the cliff. And the president, with his "I'm one of you" act, has fooled a lot of people for a long time. And you're right, this president, along with the VP, are very scary.
He and his cronies have made the term "rule of law" into a joke. Laws that are written and bills that are passed are made impotent or irrelevant by his signing statements. He continues to push policies that have failed over and over again. He is pushing our country to the brink of bankruptcy with no regard for the consequences. Unfortunately, his connections can't bail him or us out this time.
I worry what will be left of my country after it has been sucked dry by these leaches. I look to 2008 with hope, but wonder, can the damage be undone.

[toldyouso21]

.We do have other recourse--but most Americans are too lazy and too greedy to do what it takes. 1. We can march and protest, not to number in the thousands but in the millions--this would get Washingtons attention. 2. We also can boycott. Even a week of not buying nonessentials would bring the American economy to its knees and politicians as well as their corporate masters would have to heed what we want. When we want our government and country back, when we want the ignoring of subpoenas, the lost emails, the crazy wars and the vet negligence to stop, we can hit them where it hurts and we can weather the temporary losses to ourselves by knowing we are fighting for a good cause. Boycott all restaurants, no soft drinks, no extra clothes--go for food, water, shelter--no movies, no cds , no techie toys....the fact is, Americans are so trained and so shallow, that faced with moral issues and temporarily doing without their new toys, travel, entertainment--they opt for the toys--we are the ultimate consumers--not acting like people but automations--which is why we are regarded as easy to kill and easy to dispense of and when we die--(be it overseas or at home) it is a temporary distraction and a sound bite--Americans have made their own opinions,needs and values obsolete--by valuing things over humanity. BOYCOTT and watch how fast the GOP as well as the DEMS quickly become accomodating.

[grazinggoat]

It's quite interesting to see how Iran can commit to stabilize the Iraqi front and interior.

By doing so, Iran could avoid a political crisis between the Senate and the White House, in such a way that Bush cannot say anymore we need to stay there longer, and agree on the withdrawal timetable. A nice way for Walking-Liar to see the job done by its arch-foe Iran, without giving in to whatever pressure from the Senate.

Is this another Iran-Contras deal being negotiated by the two adminstration. No armement deal involved this time. Only influence exchange; a helping hand from an extremist religious nut to another.

[toldyouso21]

Mudrose:

I would never join the side of anything that I consider from the beginning to be evil and immoral, winning means nothing if its original premise is wrong. I don't care if the Pope girds his loins and joins the troops in an unarmored humvee. The fact of the matter is people relate to America and its government like they do in their own lives. For some people, if their children are bullies, or terrorize the neighborhood or do other wrong, they defend them no matter what, even if they know their kids did each and every thing. They will lie, ignore or if pushed to the wall, hire the best attorney or even pay others off to keep their darlings on the streets doing wrong. Because they justify, their kids remain terrors and grow up to be azzholes continually thinking that no matter what they will be bailed out or that money makes whatever they do okay. On the other hand, there are parents who, when faced with the wrong their children do--hold them accountable, they do not try to shield them from the consequences and indeed if the wrong is severe enough--they may even turn their own kids in. One parent values loyalty above right, wrong or morals--the other values right and morals and tries to instill it in their child by example. The war was illegal and it was immoral. Thousands are dead based on lies--and we want to continue what even Bush admits was a gambit based on faulty or false intelligence.

[clemenhagen1]

"Sounds to me like Bush will except nothing but a stalemate."

Bush will accept nothing other than continued war until he leaves office. To accept a realistic withdrawal of troops would be to accept the failure of this entire endeavor. When the Republicans beat their chest about surrender and defeat at the hands of the Democrats, they really mean that Bush's entire war of choice has been a failure, but they cannot and will not accept the consequences of that failure. Bush has never accepted responsibility for anything in his life; he's certainly not about to begin now. They will postpone this until the next president comes along, and then try to lay failure upon either that presidents feet or the feet of a Democratic Congress. Of course, anyone with a brain should know who really screwed up Iraq.

[clemenhagen1]

In Orwell's classic Animal Farm the sheep play a key role. Whenever a serious or substantive debate begins, the sheep will begin to chant one of the simplistic slogans they have taught. The point: the role of the mindless masses is to regurgitate the simplistic slogans and sound bytes in order to derail and distract. No issues can be debated with any depth or substance because the sheep will inevitably throw it off course. My friend, Mudrose, serves as a perfect illustration. He will rant, throw out the unsubstantiated (i.e. Soros controls the press), and generally prevent any intelligent discourse from occuring on this thread. The only real issue seems to be whether he does so on purpose, thus serving as a paid operative, or whether he is simply too dim to serve any other purpose. My money would be on option two, but we do know the Rovians have paid trolls operating as Orwellian sheep throughout the blogoshere.

[gopack443]

Sounds to me like Bush will except nothing but a stalemate. If he really wanted to "win", it would take a lot more than 20,000 more troops, Send 3 of 400.000 more and swam em.
so as long as he don't want to win HIS war anyway why not bring our troops home and out of harms way.

[mudrose-2009]

Like I said - same ole rants. Always the neocons and of course the chaste Dems. Nothing about Americans pooling together getting a fix and moving forward. The Do-Nothings offer nothing new. Mock trials, smooches to the base, and bash Bushisms at a time of war. Oh, that's right, what war? Denial, Denial, Denial. You must be ticked off too that the minimum wage is going to get vetoed along with this pork bill. Watch out, the little businessman won't have to let a worker go because it is going to get vetoed. Whew, someone's little job has been saved.