Comments on: Why The French Can Afford To Get Sick

Sunday Morning: Medical Care In France Is Efficient, Quick, And Costs Half What Americans Spend On Health Care

[ljb6599]

Americans would never accept this type of medical care because they are too stupid to believe that it could actually save them money while still providing good care. The first time most Americans experience similar care is when they retire and go on medicare.I have never heard one senior citizen ever complain about medicare other than please never take it away!!!!

[paradude2]

I ask again.... Taz rate on countries with universal health care?

[jaykay3141]

Thank you for a story about a European health care system other than Britain''s!

Too many Americans are unwilling to look at another culture, and God forbid if has a different language too - it might as well be on Mars. I''ve been lucky enough to travel in France and Germany (et oui, je parle francais; auch kann ich Deutsch sprechen) and long ago saw just how much we have to learn. By eliminating duplication, covering pre-existing conditions, letting everyone see a doctor BEFORE a condition worsens, their plans cost far less per capita and people are healthier! The Wall Street Journal''s hardly a leftist looney tabloid and even they''ve said we can''t continue to lose 30% of our health-care $$ on administration, vs. 2 to 4% for other systems elsewhere - including Medicare.

Before any extremists drag out the "S" word again, ask if you want a health care system where bureaucrats overrule doctors, decide who gets treated and who doesn''t, and line their own pockets at public expense. It''s called corporate socialized medicine - we already have it and it sure as h$#! doesn''t work.

The right-wing types who still chant "we''re the best" remind me of the NY Yankees in the 1970s. They relied on images of Ruth and DiMaggio long after the team had descended into mediocrity. They remained the best team in baseball only in their own minds, while other clubs ate their lunch and dinner. The Yankees improved only after they accepted how far they''d fallen. Seems to me there''s a parallel here.

[persocialismo]

I totally agree with you, I lived in Italy, traveled to France and Switzerland, e si parlo italiano anch'io, viva l'italia!!!! one question that the media hasn't posed to opponents is" what's wrong with Socialism? It works in Western Europe and Scandinavia very very well!Americans are fearful of the unknown and maybe that's why only 40% of Americans have a passport!

[xlib]

jn122736-and do you agree that the individual has a responsibility for his/her health or should the government control everything??

[persocialismo]

Do you believe that tax payers should have a choice in where their tax dollars are spent? or do you believe that we should not pay taxes all together, which to my knowledge individual tax paying is no constitutional. We are the most productive nation in the world, and if we can spend $3 trillion on an Iraqi invasion under false pretenses, then we can make sure that all of our citizens are taken care of medically incase of an emergency. Do you think people should just die in the waiting room? what is your plan? do you have an prolific ideas? or do you just want to oppose the current administration? what do you think about impoverished children and Americans? Every Developed nation in the world recognizes that healthcare is an inherent right and not a privilege, why are Americans like you so greedy and selfish?

[xlib]

mherbst-would that go for a baby who had the AUDACITY to survive a late term abortion attempt??? Answer, does it??
Talk about picking and choosing.
So, for all those who think France is great-SEE YA.

[paradude2]

Well you guys that are Americans will get your wish most likely. One of you should research the average tax rate for France. Compare that to us here in the U.S. I am a health care provider. I am a Paramedic who must work 2 full time jobs to support his family. I am not paid enough, but I am paid better than these doctors in France, and luckily I don''t have to pay their taxes.

Look, this sounds wonderful but the cost will be prohibitive.... Trust me. Problem is, once Universal Health care starts, it can never stop. It will only get more expensive, and the money has to come from somewhere. If any of you buy that "only tax the rich" line, I have some ocean front property here in Tennessee you will be interested in. That''s the oldest "bait and switch" line in politics.

Look, this is probably a moot point, because we likely won''t even have the numbers with which to even filibuster in Washington for at least the next four years, so all these European aspirations that the left has is probably gonna come true.

I wonder what will happen to the 650+ dollars that my employer pays to my health insurance???? Oh yeah! They''ll keep it. Good for them!!

[persocialismo]

Do greedy money hungry capitalists like yourself ever stop and think "ok my employers is paying $650/month for my healthcare, but what about those who don't even have healthcare?" I have a B.A. in International Relations, I have work full-time and I'm left withouth healthcare! so what do you suggest? that i die waiting in the hospital when I have a medical emergency? The first stop in the hospital is the Billing desk, in order to collect insurance info. I had insurance for 20 years, now i've been withouth it for 5, and i've also lived and seen how efficiently the system works in Europe.

[pepito72]

Do you really think you're paid better than french doctors ????
You have two jobs, and you don't have to pay the french taxes.

But the French doctors have to pay these taxes, and nevertheless, they have only a single work, and their financial situation is very envied.


I think that the problem is rather from your part.

[doctors_without_borders]

paradude2... are you kidding. French might be paying a lot more taxes but in exchange they get free healthcare, free university, real unemployment protection (70% of salary for the first year), efficient state-of-the-art high speed train all over the country and much better quality highways... What do you get for your taxes?

[fseipel]

A logical question to pose: Would this program ever run a segment on how France''s nuclear program is a model to be followed and why the US is still burning coal? Of course not. The stories chosen, as well as the content, is biased, based on politics.

There are no free lunches. Universal coverage will increase costs. Historically, government is not an efficient mechanism to deliver services; look only at the cost increases per year for Medicare/Mediacaid and the unbelievable fraud.

We need *more* competition in healthcare to drive costs down, NOT less. This might be achieved by changes in how we pay for services: making hospitals post rates for services, require individuals without insurance OR insurance companies be charged the same rate for identical services, and, instead of simple deductibles, making me pay a certain percent of total cost of a procedure, thereby, encouraging me to choose the lowest cost hospital/supplier.

To those who believe Universal Care is most efficient, why, then, should the government not adopt 5 year plans governing allocation of resources in other industries? Wouldn''t that improve efficiencies? Hasn''t this been tried before?

Even if you do believe in Universal coverage, a more market-driven approach would be to subsidize private insurance, giving each citizen an allowance if they can''t afford it. At least the insurance companies would act to control costs.

[jiganto]

The way health insurance works is by pooling risk. As in the more people that share the financial burden of caring for the few, the cheaper it is for everyone. This is one case where more competition would actually increase costs. The more pools the smaller they are the higher the financial burdens for individuals. THAT'S why having ONE large risk pool is the most cost effective approach. Add the fact that it would no longer be a profit driven institution, you can significantly cut your per capita costs.

You can't have a "healthcare" system that is based around profiting off of denying people coverage and treatment. That's why American system is so screwed up.

[north1949]

AHMTK, I agree with Aladdin49. (I not French, but I am Canadian, and we also have universal access to medical care.) In fact, Ontario surpassed Michegan
as a car manufacturer, because of our medical system. Consider that medical insurance and benefits costs for American car manufacturers add about$6500
dollars annually for each employee. Because we have socialized medicine, the employee benefits package costs less than $800 annually. Do the math. Most industrialized countries have some form of socialized medicine, which makes them highly attractive to employers. I also agree with Aladdin49, in that countries such as France, and to a less extend, Canada, put more value on the quality of life than on dollars and cents. Wouldn''t you rather live and work in a country that allows you optimum time with your family without subtracting from your standard of living? Americans have to work so very hard for so very little.

[normspier]

Thanks for your timely story. I found it informative. I did find it tended to understate what various health policy analysts have found as a big flaw in the McCain plan: increasing reliance on the individual market (the least efficient--paying out only 70 cebts in medical bills for every dollar of premiums paid in), and as well as a WORSENING of problems for people with pre-existing conditions, due to REMOVED STATEWISE REGULATION WORSENING PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS PROTECTIONS from the varying statewise levels of pre-existing-conditions protection. As well, McCain seems to destroy the current funding mechanism for high-risk pools in 26 states, by allowing insurance to be bought across state lines.

(For those interested, I''ve actually done some looking into the pre-existing conditon issue in both the McCain and Obama plans. I''ve also done some statewise research for each state on the current (usually risky) situation with pre-existing conditions, posted at: http://www.nastechservices.com/HealthInsuranceUSAPolicy.html )

Lets hope the country can stop the medical bankruptcies and deaths due to uninsurance. Most ridiculous--this is the only industrialized country where this happens, and we spend about double what the others are spending. (Last industrialized country to abandon our system was Switzerland in 1994.)

[jonstorm-2009]

Viva la France

I would take France over Texas any day. They also have more visitor arrivals than any other country in the world. To all you dimwits living in our red states that says alot. If France is such a joke why does everyone want to visit there. And if you haven''t had the chance or opportunity I feel really sad for you because the French know how to live..

From an American in Hawaii

[pswanberg]

The grass is always greener on the otherside, but once you get there you find it is fertilized with "bull ****". There are many foreigners who visit the very state you mock and say the exact same thing you said about France.

[canadian999]

lol you just don't get it pswanberg. as a canadian, there is not a single case one would take your system over canada's/france's/britain's/norway's/even cuba's. yes, it's true, you do have more experimental treatments (which is why your glenn beck makes comments about us coming from all over the world), but they just don't work. our care is as good, if not better, than high end american care for every citizen.

[pnorris1982]

yes your right. And its mostly Americans who go to france to VISIT, not live fool. If you thought france was so much better you wouldn't live in America. You feel bad for those who havent had the opportunity? since you feel bad lets give everyone a trip to France and a new car and just have people who work more than 35 hrs a week pay for it.

[jjbstyle]

Ok so pnorris, you have been to France? You have lots to say in response to the comments about visiting France - or ANYWHERE outside the U.S., for that matter, pnorris, which gives one a broader perspective of how the world works. Another poster here pointed out that only 40% of Americans even have a passport. No wonder we are so easy to fool . . . it is easy to convince an untravelled populace that other countries' systems are no good.

[ubrew12]

For sale: one thousand tons of freedom fries with a little too much ''liberty'' seasoning.

Will trade for decent health insurance.

[jn122736]

For all the conservative out there who push pro-life issues,doesn''''t everyone have the right to live? Medical care should be a right, not a luxury!!!

Posted by rmherbst at 10:56 AM : Oct 26, 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Absolutely!!!

Protection against sickness and injuries are every bit as important as protection against military attacks, and socialized health care would be viewed no differently than our socialized military defense.

[aladdin49]

France Why do we want to copy a country that only works 4 days a month. They do not have the drive or will of this country. As a Texan we are required to see illegals who yank down our health system requiring the tax payers to tighten the belt and pay higher cost of insurance France only takes care of France we take care of every body. as Jerry Seinfeild quoted on one of his shows "French and rude who saw it comming"
Being French, I particularly enjoyed the comments from AHMTK. Immigrants are taken care of in France too. One thing I find particularly telling is the state of one''s teeth don''t necessarily tell one''s income - many of our U.S. friends couldn''t afford braces for their children - unheard of here. And whre does he get the "only work 4 days a week" stuff? We work 35 hours a week, have 5 - 6 weeks vacation per year and are still more productive than Americans. Quality of life is indeed very important - eg time spent with family. I''d heard about people from Texas and you have confirmed the stereotype.

[pnorris1982]

OMG you work 35 hrs a week and have a month and a half off for vacation, and claim to be more productive. I guess thats why we save your ass when you need us, and you complain about us when you dont. France would not even be a country is the americans didnt save your ass over and over. Jerk.

[pepito72]

to pnorris :

The name of Lafayette doesn't call back to you anything?
He was French nevertheless.
Remember that it is thanks to France that the USA are independent and free.

[Melchi_fr]

Come on pnorris1982 ! Yes we are one of the most productive country per hours worked! Easily understandable working 35 hours a week.
And I am bored reading those kind of comment about WWII and how many wars we lost or won compared to the US! War is not a game or a competition!
We know it because we endure the biggest casualties during WWI.
And yes your health care system stinks considering the money you spend in it!

[lmdm1]

Sarah Pallin buys some of her own clothing from consignment shops in Alaska. More one sided, inaccurate reporting about her campaign clothes.

[hypnotoad72]

For all the conservatives out there who push pro-life issues,doesn''''t everyone have the right to live? Medical care should be a right, not a luxury!!!

Posted by rmherbst at 10:56 AM : Oct 26, 2008
---

Excellent point.

[pnorris1982]

horrible point. So you should have a right to health care but not to be born because your mom is a lazy do nothing peace of trash liberal. I am ok with everyone having health care as long as it's not run by the Government. You may be given the right to medical care but the government is being given the right to take it away.

[rmherbst]

I enjoyed the segment; however, an important aspect was left out--the role of the insurance companies. Our son had to have shoulder surgery. We have insurance and it cost us about $150.00. The bill was $27,000.00; the healthcare providers accepted $7,000.00 as paid in full from BCBS of Alabama. If we did not have insurance, our cost would have been the total $27K! The insurance company have too much power. In the U.S. there are those who make way to much money on the ill health of others, and it is not the doctors.

The United States has the resources and ability to do something simular to what the french are doing much better--including pay received by our healthcare professionals.

For all the conservative out there who push pro-life issues,doesn''t everyone have the right to live? Medical care should be a right, not a luxury!!!

[pswanberg]

Are you serious? Everyone does have the right to health care! Life is all about making decisions, good or bad; Those who choose not to purchase health insurance have made their choice.

[zombielady]

Yeah right, pswanberg. So you're saying that people who don't have insurance because of pre-existing conditions made the choice to not get insurance? They made the bad decision of getting sick in the first place? Wow. There are no words.

[ahmtk]

France Why do we want to copy a country that only works 4 days a month. They do not have the drive or will of this country. As a Texan we are required to see illegals who yank down our health system requiring the tax payers to tighten the belt and pay higher cost of insurance France only takes care of France we take care of every body. as Jerry Seinfeild quoted on one of his shows "French and rude who saw it comming"

[persocialismo]

Have you ever heard Impressionism or the Euroepean Coal and Steel Community and France's role as a proponent of the founding of the EU? The French prior to Sarkozy's current administration were limited to a 35hr. work week but now they can work 40hrs. If you're against illegal immigrants, you need to advocate for that, but that's another issue. Why should tax paying Americans be denied healthcare based on improprieties of illegal immigrants?

[Donatien1]

4 days a month??? I assume you slipt on your keyboard

Anyway, we do take care of illegals as well. we treat them and when they fully cured, we ask them to live. Same with bums, they usually do not have any papers proving anything but we cure them anyway.

anyway the question is not here. the question is " do you want to keep paying for your current system, or do u want to pay less and have a higher standard?" : this is what we call economies of scope, economies of scale or return to scale.

[graylion1]

French doctors make roughly $50,000 to $100,000 a year. I am an LPN in Arkansas and make over $40,000 a year.

William Vogler, LPN

[d0rrell]

When will we in the United States wise up to the fact that health insurance for all is necessary. Even if we had a minimum level for all that allowed individuals to see a nurse or other health care personal at the first sign of a medical problem would save money over the current system. The fact that we pay one of the highest percentage of GNP for health care of major industrial countries and have 46 million uninsured is crazy.

[pswanberg]

"And while the French are determined to preserve their system (it's currently running a 12 to 14 billion dollar deficit), most agree something's got to change." Just because something sounds good, doesn't mean it is good. It is unfortunate that so many people are uninsured and as a result suffer from inadequate medical care, but the fact still remains: social programs end up costing those who work for what they have. Maybe in the future when the US economy stabilizes, the idea of public health care will be viable, but the increased amount of government involvement in every American's life has them worried more than it has them excited.

[canadian999]

public healthcare cuts overall costs. less name brand drugs, less overpaid doctors in ferraris, and less waste.