Comments on: Why The French Can Afford To Get Sick
Sunday Morning: Medical Care In France Is Efficient, Quick, And Costs Half What Americans Spend On Health Care
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- Doctors in the U.S. are nothing but ***$ to Big Pharma.
Nothing more, nothing less.... - Reply to this comment
- No Malpractice lawsuits, cut medical costs 30% right there. Then there are all the tests and procedures that Doctors subject us to these days, just in case it all goes to court, the Dr. can demonstrate that he took no shortcuts. There is a big part of our costs right there, that the French and many other countries have sidestepped.
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- In other countries doctors make roughly the same as other professionals with similar levels of education. In America they''re multimillionaire businessmen. This, plus the additional cost of private insurance middlemen, is the reason health care costs in the U.S. is through the roof.
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- Universal health care not only works, it''s the moral thing to do.
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- I thought it was interesting that the woman who owned the restaurant couldn''t afford health insurance for her employees, who make minimum wage or 1/2 of minimum wage and their tips make up the rest of their wages. The employees are what makes her business succeed. I wonder how much profit she makes in comparison to what it would cost for insurance for her employees...hmm.
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- You make that point so well,Abectriza. Doctors in the United States are controlled by the insurers. In countries with socialized medicine, there is nothing coming between the doctor and the patient. The doctors are there for the patient, and they can care for the patient without intereference.
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- Forget about Moore, the fact is, I lived in different parts of the world, and I can tell, when I needed a doctor, I was treated in a different manner: doctors spend even one hour talking to you, getting to know you, devoting their time to the patient. Contrary to the US where they want you out of their offices as soon as possible! In many nations, Medicine is not a business and patients are not profitable assets.
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- I agree with you, I've lived in Europe as well, and shared same experience. the protocal for seeking medical attention here in the US is Insurance, Billing, and safeguard from lawsuit, that's all procured before you even think about seeing a Doctor, and many times you see a Nurse, or a Physician's Assistant as in my case the last time I went to Baptist Hospital and even if I had insurance I still got stuck with a $500 bill, and when i spoke to my friends in italy they replied "and wow even if you had insurance they only paid 75% of the bill"
- "Apparently, Mr. Moorer''''s utopia has a different side, seen from his former school mate Kevin Leffler, who traveled to Cuba and filmed the truth about a regime that treats paying customers from abroad but turns away their own sickos:
''''''''Moore''''s behavior is malicious and hypocritical,'''''''' said Leffler, 51.
``For those of us who have followed his footsteps during these years, his falseness about the Cuban health system and the deplorable state of medical services that Cuban nationals receive shouldn''''t surprise us.''''''''
The Cuban footage was shot in November 2007. It includes scenes at Miguel Enriquez Hospital in Havana that show a dilapidated facility and the somber panorama of the reception area.
''''''''It is very exciting to know that the images filmed by Kevin Leffler will be seen in the U.S., as he had the bravery to come to Cuba to find out the reality of this nation''''s healthcare system,'''''''' said Ferrer, who runs the Juan Bruno Zayas Center for Health and Human Rights in Cuba."
Posted by endofempire
I''m sure our longstanding embargo doesn''t impact the country at all, so any shortcomings must be entirely Cuba''s fault.
...I wonder how it is, that Cuba has developed in some cases, superior medicine than in the U.S. ? Such as a vaccine for a strain of hepatitis that the US doesn''t have.. Hmmm.... - Reply to this comment
- Kevin L. Leffler, an accountant and university professor who grew up in Michigan and went to high school with Moore, embarked on his own cinematic adventure as a counterpoint to his former classmate. His documentary, Shooting Michael Moore, is an 80-minute analysis of the conduct and premises touted by Moore.
In Shooting Michael Moore, Leffler contrasts the scenes of the American patients being attentively cared for in the Havana clinic with images of Cuban citizens seeking care at the same facility being turned away.
The dialogue between the hospital''s receptionists and dissident physician Darsi Ferrer and his journalist friend Jaime Leygonier, who request appointments for MRIs, was captured with a hidden camera, and shows a reality far removed from the scenes in Sicko. - Reply to this comment
- Apparently, Mr. Moorer''s utopia has a different side, seen from his former school mate Kevin Leffler, who traveled to Cuba and filmed the truth about a regime that treats paying customers from abroad but turns away their own sickos:
''''Moore''s behavior is malicious and hypocritical,'''' said Leffler, 51.
``For those of us who have followed his footsteps during these years, his falseness about the Cuban health system and the deplorable state of medical services that Cuban nationals receive shouldn''t surprise us.''''
The Cuban footage was shot in November 2007. It includes scenes at Miguel Enriquez Hospital in Havana that show a dilapidated facility and the somber panorama of the reception area.
''''It is very exciting to know that the images filmed by Kevin Leffler will be seen in the U.S., as he had the bravery to come to Cuba to find out the reality of this nation''s healthcare system,'''' said Ferrer, who runs the Juan Bruno Zayas Center for Health and Human Rights in Cuba. - Reply to this comment
- Abectriza, You are so correct..as was M. Moore, although he was guilty of using some hyperbole in his film. The point is that Americans have been so brainwashed by the neo-cons, by the insurance companies, by the for profit providers, that they cannot see outside the box. I am a 60 year old Canadian lady. My life expectancy far outweighs that of an American lady, especially a black American lady.
Here there is no difference...all ladies have the same life expectancy. Mammogram...free. PAP...free.
Blood work...free. My doctor is not afraid to tell me if I am overweight or if I smoke too much, and it is to his benefit to prescribe and support a diet, and a smoking cessation program. It is to his benefit to keep me healthy and alive and enjoying life. He is not constrained by an insurance company, who tells him what care I need. I trust my doctor, and I trust my government. That is the difference!! - Reply to this comment
- "You should know French doctors make a lot less than their American counterparts - roughly $50,000 to $100,000 a year - because the French government (not doctors or pharmaceutical companies) sets the prices for everything - prices they feel are reasonable." All discussion is about WHO should pay...not WHY IT COSTS SO MUCH! Does anyone else notice that doctors live in the fanciest parts of town and drive the fanciest cars? Granted, their education costs are high, but don''t they eventually get paid off??? I only know two doctors whose lifestyles approximate mine. And I''m not poor!
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- Hey, Paradude and Xlib, where are you? I was just starting to enjoy the debate, when you disappeared.
Or is it, when faced with the fact, from France, from GB, from Sweden, from Denmark, from Germany, from Switzerland, from any other industrialized country...that socialized medicine not only works, it works well, does not inhibit research, serves the public, and makes you competitive in the global market? Where is the debate? Where are all the neo-cons? Where are all those who would have US citizens die for lack of insurance? Come on...debate the issue!! - Reply to this comment
- Yesterday I watched Michael Moore''s Sicko which adresses this exact issue and how the life expectancy is higer in France, Canada, Britain, Germany an many other countries than in the US.
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- Hey, Paradude...you talk about the $650 that your US employer has to pay for your health benefits. Here in Candada...in Alberta....for my AHCIC benefits...after Jan 1, 2009..it is $0. for health insurance. If I were a telemarketer, or working in the automotive industry...where would the job move? To the US, where I have to pay $650 a month for an employee, or to Alberta, where I have to pay $0.00 for health insurance for an employee. BTW, Nieman-Marcus put its call centre in Edmonton, Alberta for just that reason!!
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- Hey, Paradude, where are you? Also, I would like you to look at some of the medical breakthroughs that have come out of France, GB, and other countries with socialized medicine. I would like to see you really refute the article, especially the last section, that virtually renders the screaming amulances and the EMT''s obsolete. To paraphrase an oldie....When will we ever learn?....
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- Paradude, perhaps you should "google" some of the cutting edge medicine that has come out of Canada. The Universty of Alberta Hospital is cutting edge in children''s transplants (liver) and several years ago pioneered research in diabetes. Just last week, one of North America''s leading neuroscientists, a specialist in the neurology of Alzheimers, was awarded $20 million dollars and is returning to Alberta from the University of Arizona. I''d rather pay a neuroscientist $20 million dollars than give the same amount to a baseball player!!
As for our health care getting more expensive...well, since it is a single-payer/single provider system, and has taxpayer oversight, admin costs are constantly being scrutinized so that direct care dollars increase. You just don''t get it, do you!! - Reply to this comment
- North1949 said: "you [Americans] seem to work so very hard for so very little. "
True dat. And not only do we work hard, but our ''betters'' in our society have for 30 years felt that with a little paddle in the butt, we could work EVEN harder!!! That''s why they''ve gifted us a $10 trillion debt to work off, which will only take the rest of our lives.
Thanks older generation, for the opportunity to work my fingers to the bone!!! - Reply to this comment
- Spoken as one of those stupid Americans, let me answer my question on tax rate for France. It''s about 50 percent, and they are at a deficit. I am talking personal tax, not corporate tax. Corporate tax rate is much less in France. Whereas, our corporate tax rate is much higher than our personal tax rate. See where the "bait and switch" comes in?
We have argueably some of the best doctors in the world here in the U.S. Yes, they are at the top of their field because they strive for excellence, and service to their fellow man, but if there was not prosperity in the way of big money at the end, I doubt they would care as much. Look at many of the "doctors" of the former Soviet Union. They were paid about the same as a bus driver, and their apathy was legendary. - Reply to this comment
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- They pay about 28% in taxes first of all. We have various taxes, sales tax, federal and state.
secondly, your theory about compensation for excellence is not necessarily true. look at the healthcare system in Cuba where the average salary for everyone is about $20/month. I've seeked healcare in Europe and I found that far more attention was paid to detail because the capitalist mentality doesn't exist, it's more of a social approach, Docorts will even come to you at HOME! and they dont' make nearly as much as Doctors here in the U.S. They will run various tests like EkG,CT Scans and MRIs, X Rays in order to be sure that there's not a trace of anything malignant in your body, and they can do so because the costs are not nearly as high as they are here in the U.S. and they aren't looking for a capital gain, they genuinely care for the sick!Here the first concerns are billing, insurance, and being safe from lawsuit...that's the protocal here in the U.S.
- They pay about 28% in taxes first of all. We have various taxes, sales tax, federal and state.
- JayKay3141, From looking over some of these posts, I would have to agree with you that Americans simply can''t look outside their own system. As for taxes, mine here in Canada were only slightly higher than a friend of mine in Colorado. If you added in the exorbitant amount she was paying for health insurance, I won the "disposable income" test, hands down. As well, if I lose my job, I don''t lose my health care benefits. I don''t have to worry about "pre-existing conditions". I chose my own doctor. Yes, for some procedures there is a bit of
queue, but at least no one has to claim bankruptcy to cover medical costs. NO ONE!! NOT ONCE CANADIAN I KNOW HAS EVER HAD TO CLAIM BANKRUPTCY FOR MEDICAL COSTS. Not having universal health care is dragging down your economy, shortening your lives, responsible for companies outsourcing jobs to other countries.
Again, you seem to work so very hard for so very little. - Reply to this comment
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- Americans also pay 2 arms and 2 legs for education, again the only industrialized, developed democratic nation that adheres to such a practice, this is absurd, so we also have taxes for education that feed into our economy!They fail to mention Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia, where the economy, government and social systems are virtually flawless!
