Comments on: Weighing Fingerprints As Forensic Evidence
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- If they throw the fingerprints evidence out, would they have to release all the prisoners convicted by fingerprint evidence?
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- Fingerprinting remains one of the most important crime prevention and detection tools available to us.
However a lack of international standards and monitoring opens it to challenges of being unscientific.
To many minds a fingerprint found at a crime scene is still seen as infallible proof of guilt. Recent cases across the world have proved otherwise.
See www.shirleymckie.com - Reply to this comment
- I believe fingerprints are like snow flakes, they say no two flakes have ever been identical. Well, you can not know that for sure unless you have looked at every flake that has ever fallen. The same thing goes for fingerprints somebody somewhere living or dead may have the same print as someone else.
two guns son of one gun - Reply to this comment
- Fingerprints?
In my son''s questionable death, the police didn''t bother to remove the chain he was found dead in. They didn''t bother to take the chain to Autopsy for possible latent prints, they did NOT investigate, citing, "We don''t begin an investigation until something suspicious is found."
www.realcrimes.com/Robinson/Robinson.htm The highlighted areas are excerpts from the files, including a crime scene photo. Warning: Graphic!
www.JusticeForUs.org, Internet Links, #558723957 - Reply to this comment
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A few responses to posters:
1) There is no ''''point'''' minimum for fingerprint ID
2) In any human endeavor there are mistakes - their presence doesn''''t invalidate all human endeavors.
3) Fingerprints are incredibly unique under magnification, the extent of which most people don''''t realize.
4) Critics of the fingerprint discipline mostly have other agendas than the truth - that the practice is very accurate and reliable when done correctly by competent analysts.
5) There is a lot of information on the practice, and there is are excellent professional communities devoted to the truths behind fingerprint analysis... those interested in the discipline should interact with appropriate organizations or communities and refrain from mis-informed attacks of a reliable discipline.
Posted by clpex-com
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Some very good points ... points which I think bring to light how fingerprint ID needs to be looked at carefully with reform in mind.
Things like:
*a minimum point match standard
* fingerprint collection standards
*examiner standards including disclosure of who the examiner is working for.
*and lastly standards for allowable enhancement procedures to prevent future abuses given how easily a computer enhancement could be tweaked - Reply to this comment
- It seems absolute proof is very difficult to obtain.
The accuracy of fingerprint identification has been questioned for many years. The case of mis-identification mentioned is only one of many to be found. The accuracy of DNA analysis is questionable as witness the problems with so many crime labs around the country. Eyewitness testimony has been demonstrated to be often inaccurate, especially long after the fact. Photographic evidence can be easily altered with programs like Photoshop. Even video evidence is now in question as it can be manipulated by the same means used to create modern animated movies. Supposedly even live broadcasts can be altered in real time given sufficient computing power! Once again we must return to the concepts of "the preponderance of the evidence" and "beyond a reasonable doubt." - Reply to this comment
- JEGibbons: Your facts are incorrect. There is no standard for fingerprint evidence. The only reason Mr. Mayfield didn''t go to jail was because another suspect was identified by SPAIN. If they had not done their job better than the FBI did, Mr. Mayfield would have been wrongly convicted as a terrorist and his family ruined. Any protection of peoples rights, benefits us all. If he could be a victim, so easily could you, too. Don'' be too naive to assume you could never be in a similar position, it happens much too often. How many people have to be cleared by new, Real science, before people who believe as you do will finally accept that there are mistakes made by the justice system all the time. Finger print analysis is NOT a science, by the way, its a subjective examination. "It is better from 10 guilty men to go free, then for one innocent man to go to jail" (slightly paraphrased)
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- There is NO standard for the number of matching points to determine if a print matches a suspect. Its subjective by the examiner and each jurisdiction accepts a different standard. Some cases are presented and used for conviction on as little as a 4 point match. Do you realize how many people could be included in one 4 point match? Its reported it would be thousands. Any subjective science is flawed; as is any identification that involves human inspection or identification. If DNA has cleared people, ask yourself how many of these people were convicted on finger prints evidence in the first place? Fingerprinting should be a support to other compelling evidence, not the ''smoking gun'' in any trial.
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- Finger print data is subjective, and one of the problems I have with bio-metrics. Two closely related individuals may have simular prints at greater than 6 points hence an error. Just use DNA closer look
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- A few responses to posters:
1) There is no ''point'' minimum for fingerprint ID
2) In any human endeavor there are mistakes - their presence doesn''t invalidate all human endeavors.
3) Fingerprints are incredibly unique under magnification, the extent of which most people don''t realize.
4) Critics of the fingerprint discipline mostly have other agendas than the truth - that the practice is very accurate and reliable when done correctly by competent analysts.
5) There is a lot of information on the practice, and there is are excellent professional communities devoted to the truths behind fingerprint analysis... those interested in the discipline should interact with appropriate organizations or communities and refrain from mis-informed attacks of a reliable discipline. - Reply to this comment
